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#21 Nadagast

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:02 AM

View PostMoreudirl, on 28 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

follow your heart nada

You ain't helpin me here fadezz

#22 Moreudirl

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:12 AM

View PostNadagast, on 28 November 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

You ain't helpin me here fadezz

my friend is playing a punch monk, while its not the best he makes it work and has fun. Its an alt, its there for fun :P

(mistweaver isnt exactly great either id say its right around disc tier probably slightly better b/c u can live and not go oom if u play properly... disc doesnt seem to have that luxury. However, the class has a lot of flaws... too many to count probably :()

Edited by Moreudirl, 28 November 2012 - 10:12 AM.


#23 Nadagast

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:04 AM

View PostMoreudirl, on 28 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

my friend is playing a punch monk, while its not the best he makes it work and has fun. Its an alt, its there for fun :P

(mistweaver isnt exactly great either id say its right around disc tier probably slightly better b/c u can live and not go oom if u play properly... disc doesnt seem to have that luxury. However, the class has a lot of flaws... too many to count probably :()

Fuck man, do I have to level another alt?  Warlocks and punch monks are both dog?

#24 Moreudirl

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

View PostNadagast, on 28 November 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

Fuck man, do I have to level another alt?  Warlocks and punch monks are both dog?

nadagastmage

#25 Emoeritz

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:48 PM

Sry Nada, monks are fun but they are potatoes.

Ascension+meta could be cool, I really like the idea.
Power strikes could now be worth something as well but my guess is that ascension is better. (more mana, more mana through tea, more chi that can be stored alas less chi thats getting lost due to cap etc.)
I'm not sure about the meta though, if you're taking ascension another 2% is probably not worth giving up 10% less silence duration or 3% critdmg+spirit.

I never was a big fan of chi brew anyway, it suits dps monks a lot more than healers in my opinion.

Concerning enveloping, I think something happened to the scaling formula.
I've got two monks, one is pretty shitty geared (not even full honor gear, half green) and one with almost full conquest. The shitty one got 16.2k ticks and the other 18.1k now, yesterday the difference was a lot bigger...

Anyone got the exact numbers on renewing mist? I'd like to now if and how much the healing output changed.

Edited by Emoeritz, 28 November 2012 - 05:28 PM.


#26 Moreudirl

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

envelop got nerfed 32% its in patch notes

#27 Sauve

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:51 PM

The fact that we no longer get dmg from PvP power and the recent envelop nerf are both pretty discouraging.

#28 Emoeritz

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

Oh fail, I skipped it, shouldn't it be under the mistweaver tap. -,-

#29 Moreudirl

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:00 AM

http://us.battle.net...ic/7200032837#1

support please, if you guys want to remain moderately viable in pvp at all... not that we are now but you get the idea


(moved thread to pvp section per request) ^^

Edited by Moreudirl, 29 November 2012 - 06:02 AM.


#30 Pandalol

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:41 AM

View PostNadagast, on 28 November 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

Fuck man, do I have to level another alt?  Warlocks and punch monks are both dog?

Yep im the punch monk alt friend. Its pretty horrendous.

#31 Nadagast

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:59 AM

View PostPandalol, on 29 November 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Yep im the punch monk alt friend. Its pretty horrendous.

Fuck.  Giving 5.1 Warlock a shot.


View PostMoreudirl, on 28 November 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

nadagastmage

yikes man...

#32 Moreudirl

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:22 AM

WOWFORUM POST I MADE

BLUE READ THIS PLEASE URGENT

I will start by saying, i am an extremely competent player, and have been having success in arena as almost every class especially healers since its inception. I have gotten glad every season as well as 8-9 rank 1 titles on various classes, mainly shaman. This expansion i am probably the only mistweaver monk playing your game who has had even close to any success (we have been rank 1 all season in 3s and 5s playing monk healer comps with extremely great winrates) i even wrote a MW guide to help people out as the class is undeniably weak.

Seen here: http://www.arenajunk...ing-mistweaver/

To start, this class is very very very very weak. I am only having success because i have found some ways around common problems, and have had success for nearly 7 years on your game.

I have been enjoying it immensely as my other main, my shaman has been extremely overpowered since season 9 and i no longer enjoy playing it RIP BC/WOTLK days. Anyway, i think the monk class is well designed with some glancing flaws, please read my arenajunkies thread if possible i wold appreciate that blue posters. I highlight some necessary quality of life changes.

Anyways since 5.1 hit bringing several monk changes, many for the worse i have found some annoying changes that were otherwise not listed.

I can live with the chi wave healing nerf, the mana increases and some other changes you made IE renewing mist. What i cannot live with nor any serious pvp mistweaver cannot live with are the undocumented changes you guys made to the class as follows:

1) Enveloping mists stealth 32% healing nerf. Let me begin by saying this spell was already in a bad place with an extremely high chi cost while being dispelled by the majority of opposing classes, with no punishing mechanic attatched to it. However, now instead of ticking for a reasonable amount (filling the role of a greater heal) it ticks for nearly nothing in arenas, 14-15k down from 24-26k (new 15% healing battlefatigue debuff that all players have, as well as the 10% arena healing passive debuff). I dont see how i am supposed to heal any burst with this spell ticking for 1/3 less than before while players are doing a lot more damage with the upgradeable gear and pvp power increase. (14-15% more for some classes, most classes are seeing crits of upwards of 300k atm)

2) Chi wave change. I am not talking about the 25% healing nerf, i can live with that as i said. What i am talking about is the way the ability behaves. Previously it would bounce between enemy and ally targetting those with lower hp... a great interesting mechanic that was in a pretty good place besides the fact it bounced into CC abilities. However, now when it bounces to an enemy if they are under the grounding totem effect, the chi wave will bounce 30 yards away into the totem and fizzle out. This means you can only heal your ally reliably once for 20k for the cost of 2 chi. Please fix this so that it once again is coded as a physical spell thereby ignoring grounding totems.....

I suppose you want us to spam surging mist.... that is not a good design i was enjoying playing around chi based heals, please read my guide for details as I said i am the only one having success on this new class......

also please fix the aura mastery effect 4 piece (immune to interrupts via thunder focus tea)

I would love to speak with some of your developers if possible about the state of pvp currently as i have played at an extremely high level for many years and i know i could provide tremendous insight and suggestions etc for you guys, without being biased to any class, as i have had success on nearly every single one...

I would really appreciate a blue response in this thread as these things NEED to be fixed and whichever blue ends up reading this please, check out my guide on arena junkies i have some interesting suggestions/things i have noticed that could possibly help the class without being overpowered.

Sincerely,
Fadezz
didnt know where to post this to make u guys read it delete the unnecessary ones


taken from http://us.battle.net...032837?page=1#6

Edited by Moreudirl, 29 November 2012 - 06:29 AM.


#33 Emoeritz

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:21 AM

Well written.

You haven't mentioned the whole cc-problem but your focus was on 5.1 and not on everything concerning mistweavers. (thread would probably get too long too fast if you would have tried to include everything that's wrong with the class)

My main concern is that mistweavers seem to be extremely good in PvE and blizz probably isn't sure how to fix something that's good in one part of the game and dogshit in another.
I think fixing mw PvP got a quite low priority for blizzard, but I would be more than grateful if they would listen to you.

Nevertheless, thanks for your effort, mb they listen after all?!

#34 Moreudirl

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:42 AM

just need to fix the two things i mentioned. They can nerf Envelop but 33% is way too much considering the new healing debuffs in pvp, it hsould be ticking for AT LEAST 20k with debuffs up. Chi wave SHOULD NOT be going into grounding totems.

i didnt discuss the other issues i want them to fix the two problems created this patch

#35 Moreudirl

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:24 AM

tbh my damage seems the same even on my shaman are u sure the %healing doesnt work for dmg spells too?

#36 Nadagast

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostPandalol, on 29 November 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Yep im the punch monk alt friend. Its pretty horrendous.

Would you mind elaborating why it's horrendous?  Even after 5.1?  (I know this is the Mistweaver discussion--sorry about that!)

Edited by Nadagast, 29 November 2012 - 08:35 AM.


#37 Pandalol

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:06 AM

View PostNadagast, on 29 November 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Would you mind elaborating why it's horrendous?  Even after 5.1?  (I know this is the Mistweaver discussion--sorry about that!)

Took it to PM's to avoid clog.

#38 Moreudirl

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

Played some games on my monk testing ascension with 2% mana meta. It seems broken to say the least, mana tea usage gives nearly 30k mana now. I was over 90% mana every game with literally more teas than i could drink.

I also noticed that the envelop nerf is huge, and we have more chi than we can spend especially with the chi wave issue (flying into grounding and dying while only healing 1 time). i didnt miss chi brew one bit as our chi spells are a lot less desirable than before, there is WAY too much chi now.  I just wish envelop healed slightly more in a pvp setting :... it is nice that im able to rotate 2 envelops on different people in many situations though.

ZEN SPHERE????
I am considering trying zen sphere out as it synergizes well with the renewing mist "nerf" This nerf is somethig i have actually found to be quite nice. The ticks now do less however, they tick faster and with the gain in crit that most of you will find via reforging you get a lot more crits with it. -more ticks, more crits, pretty much more healing before you refresh it in 10-12 seconds. For this reason i may try going zen sphere vs shaman teams to get around annoying grounding totem mechanics. Zen sphere ticks for around 12k per 2 seconds to go along with renewing @5500~ per 2 seconds. Thats a good amount of healing on a partner that you know will stick. (zen sphere is undispellable.) you can also recast it for a decent bit of "aoe healing" but i dont think its as good as letting it tick through with renewing/envelop up and surging a needed. will test in 3s tomorrow.

SURGING MIST?
I am aware that in most cases surging is just a run on mana and i advised you all to stay away from it but, i have found that it is healing for nearly 75k non crit up from 60k of last patch. This coupled with our 352k mana pool and an abundance of teas makes it highly usable. Of course u shouldnt spam it but u can mix a lot of them into your healing style and sit above 70-80% mana all game. (not quite sure why its healing more.... maybe stealth buff to off set envelop dno...)

overall if they fix the chi wave bouncing into grounding nonsense... and the aura mastery actually working, i feel we will be in a very good spot. I encourage all of you to test out ascension with 2% mana meta and zen sphere vs shaman teams. (i still find chi wave to be my best heal 25% nerf or not, just frustrating when u rely on it to heal and it dies in a grounding totem 30 yards away)

sorry for grammar 8 am :)

Edited by Moreudirl, 30 November 2012 - 08:41 PM.


#39 Emoeritz

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

I think Zen sphere is the best pick right now.

Chi generation feels a lot more reliable and consistent now.
I'm really enjoying the buff and as you said we're able to keep enveloping up or have it on multiple targets for a while.
(it should still heal more than it does now)

Ascension+Meta is great, I switched instantly and it's aaaaaaaaaaaawesome.
28.152 mana teas :o and combined with the fact that we generate and spend more chi, our mana problems are pretty much gone. (but i've got the feeling that ascension will get nerfed to 10% or even less)

I don't now about surging mist, my numbers seem unchanged after 5.1, but with a greater mana pool and more mana regeneration we can use it more freely now.

My main concerns are still our vulnerability to crowd control and our pretty lame cc's in comparison.

Edited by Emoeritz, 30 November 2012 - 02:28 PM.


#40 Nadagast

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:31 PM

So Mistweaver is looking pretty promising in 5.1?  Hmmmm... :)




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