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#1 Moreudirl

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:00 AM

posted this in other thread:
SEE SECOND POST FOR MACROS/GEARING I WILL CONTINUE ADDING THINGS AS PEOPLE ASK, OTHERS SHOULD CONTRIBUTE AS WELL. IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED I CAN REWRITE EVERYTHING AND CONSOLIDATE EVEN THE LATER POSTS SO ITS EASIER TO FOLLOW, LET ME KNOW.

a little about myself, i am fadezz i have had success in every expansion as every healer, warrior, and elemental shaman. I have received many rank 1 titles as well as every glad title outside of season 2. I i played a druid main in bc, followed by shaman main in wotlk and cata. Now i am setting my focus to my monk, however, i will continue playing my shaman as well. I look forward to everyone contributing to this thread, and will answer questions for monks as well as any healers that ask. Thanks!

I have had a lot of success on my monk this season running several comps over 2450 and two over 2500. This by all means does not mean the class is remotely close to ok. Before rating reset on this current we were 61-0 as monk mage lock and double healer demon lock(lol 10 games for cap) over 2500 we didnt fight many exploit teams maybe 4 or 5 when our team was still under 1500 and they were 300 mmr lower than we were, we started at about 2450. (before you flame me i know im on bg5 and not bg9, but im a semi competent player regardless and id like to keep this friendly)

If you guys find this helpful i can make a separate thread and post a lot more info i just highlighted the thing people ask me most. I will discuss gearing if anyone is interested too, ive tried so many gem schemes haha.

The strongest thing about monks is the fact that many popular comps which blow healers up such as god comp or various mage comps cant really train a monk efficiently.... as a result of this the solution for them is to chain cc us with their vast array of instant cc. neilyofiend, bloodfear, pom ring etc. For this reason the warlock plays destruction as ember taps can keep him alive long enough for a chi wave firework to cruise in there.

SOME QUALITY OF LIFE CHANGES ID LOvE TO SEE-

1) LIFE COCOON- this is an extremely powerful cd for the fact that the majority of your heals do 50% more while this shield holds. However, it is dispellable and on a 2 minute cooldown. Id love to see the cooldown reduced to 1.5 minutes and there be some penalty for dispelling. When people ask me what i think i generally say id like to see a penalty that when its dispelled half of the total absorb is healed up front analagous to the lifebloom "bloom" effect. If that is not acceptable for some crazy reason perhaps lower the cd but split the shield portion of the spell from the hot increasing portion and only allow the shield to be dispelled. I prefer the "bloom" mechanic

2) paralyze no longer having a positional requirement for pvp. This one is self explanatory as it can be extremely frustrating to line up a full 'sheep' dr cc only to have the hammer of latency keep you frmo landing a 7 second cc on an already stunned target as they continue to spin or face an incorrect direction.

3) potentially add a glyph to work with deadly reach to make your kick also gain 20 yard range but lose the abliity to blanket (may be too overpowered but id love some suggestions.) right now that tree leg sweep is far and away the clear winner.

4) envelop being dispelled... this is a touchy issue as its such a strong heal but its quite expensive chi wise. i feel if it is going to be dispelled it should refund 1 or 2 of the 3 chi cost. Its the equivalent of a shamans greater heal being dispelled. It just isnt good design with no penalty attached to it. alternatively make it undispellable but im afraid that would be far too strong. I dont know guys make some suggestions!!!

HELPFUL TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS
Many people ask me for tips, mainly issues with mana or burst healing i will post here what i tell them all.

1 )DO NOT RELY ON SURGING MIST USE IT AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. if you are surging misting more than once or twice per 30-45 seconds you are going to lose the mana battle generally. Of course there are exceptions vs teams who dispel. Use judgement. Try not to mist as much unless you can weave in a thunder focus tea for the extra output and mana conservation.

2) RELY ON CHI TO HEAL. You should be using expel harm off cooldown to keep your chi flowing, dont rely on this as a self heal only, as it has a large healing range (20k to as much as 60k non crit dno why its such a large range) and in most cases its better to just torpedo away anyway.

3) CHI WAvE IS YOUR FRIEND. Try and use chi wave as much as you can its your strongest heal and its undispellable, when you see a CC coming your way you should do your best to shoot one off and let your team know the fire work is on the way, that way they can feel safe knowing a large heal is going to keep them up during the cc rotation and focus on stopping the chain of cc on you.

4) RENEWING MIST/MONK 5% STAT BUFF- first off i try to renewing mist off cooldown or at least every 8-12 seconds. Keeping that hot rolling is nice and it helps keep your chi flowing for more envelops and more chi waves (much like expel harm) if a team is spam dispelling your hots and u feel it is pointless to use them, rather than resorting to just spamming surge and probably losing, stay determined and continuously reapply renewing as well as your 5% stat buff. You will not take a mana hit and you will eventually wear them out on dispels (2 piece bonus mana tea on hot dispel). more chi is more healing and more mana!

5) WHEN TO USE WHAT- i try to prioritize chi waving as much as i can as its a great spike heal with no real counter other than the travel time. Other than that try to envelop a lot, as its pretty much your gheal and even if its dispelled you should be able to get a few ticks in and its a huge heal. Dont be discouraged by dispels, if you fall into the surge spam trap you will most likely lose anyway. THUNDER TEA SURGE IS GREAT-  use this a lot even if the aura mastery effect isnt necessarily needed. chi wave as soon as a cc is coming your way the travel time actually helps in this situation as by the time it reaches your partner your cc should be coming off.

6) GOING BEHIND ENEMY LINES- i always announce in skype when i see an opportunity to land some cc i love the fact that i can "go behind enemy lines" and pretty much lock up any 2 players i choose, between the kick/silence and aoe stun and a "sheep' in paralyze that makes for a lot of ways to annoy an enemy team or healer. even in rbgs you can usually chi wave your team while rolling in ccing as much as you can and rolling out unharmed. Obviously use your judgement as you dont want to open yourself up for a swap, in general u want to evacuate via port or roll as soon as your cc lands

ps i am not trying to claim i am the best but from what i have seen i was probably the only monk with good records in all 3 brackets pre mmr fix, and above 2500 rating in both without queuing into exploiters (i didnt queue 5s in an effort to wait for this whole drama to blowover). Therefore, i feel i can provide some insight into the things which have worked for me. thank you

****share any thing u guys and girls have found to work for you id love to see some constructive posting!****


I will edit this as people continue to ask me questions. I just purchased a new laptop i will begin streaming all of my games on both my shaman and monk this season.

sincerely,
Fadezz

Edited by Moreudirl, 28 November 2012 - 10:01 AM.


#2 Moreudirl

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:01 AM

reserved--- i will add more as needed, everyone should discuss what works for them, what doesnt, ask questions etc i can discuss gearing if anyone interested or more good and bad things ive found so far wit hthe class. I had a lot more to say but i wanted tyo keep it focused until people either flame me or contribute!

MACROS
i dont use very many macros at this point, some useful ones id recommend regardless of healer you play are:

Party Dispels- (i put them on my mousewheel spin it up party 1, down party 2, shift up 3, shift dow 4)

  /cast [target=party1] detox
  /cast [target=party2] detox
  /cast [target=party3] detox
  /cast [target=party4] detox

Self Dispel- This is actually a macro ive used on my shaman for almost 3 years now, its used to purge target if enemy, dispel if ally, and dispel self if i hold shift. i took out the purge part for my monk. I bind this to ` (tilda next to 1)

#showtooltip detox
/cast [modifier:shift, target=player] detox; [button:2,target=player] detox; [harm] detox; [help] detox

(shaman version of this macro)

#showtooltip cleanse spirit
/cast [modifier:shift, target=player] cleanse spirit; [button:2,target=player] cleanse spirit; [harm] Purge; [help] cleanse spirit


Focus macros- kick/para self explanatory macros for using your cc and interrupt on your focus

/cast [target=focus] spear hand strike

/cast [target=focus] paralysis

BM/HS-  i like this macro because its a huge burst heal kind of like ns'ing yourself if you play with a warlock. you should still bind HS seperately too if possible

/use Malevolent Gladiator's Emblem of Meditation
/use healthstone

Cancel aura spinning crane kick- ive found this extremely useful, you can easily bind it into your spnning crane kick ability and just tap it twice. Its not a super overused spell but believe it or not you will eventually be locked out in a bad situation and the good news is you can still do about 30k healing with a spnning crane kick on yourself or a partner. The downside is you cant do any other ablities until the kick is done. Therefore, i recommend using this macro to stop it early, in favor of another heal or kick or stun etc

#showtooltip spinning crane kick
/use spinning crane kick
/cancelaura spinning crane kick

thats about all i use, mostly just general macros. You guys surely have more macros you benefit from share them here!

Gearing
1)GEMS
Im not really sure what gear style is best try them all and see what works for you. I have tried all methods of gemming and found a style im fairly comfortable with.

At first i tried to get to 10k combat regen with as much pvp power/int as i could i had something like 35% pvp power and 17k spell with t1 wep. I played this for the majority of the games this season and it was quite effective.

I then tried resilience and later decided i had more then enough tools to live and if i died it was because of my own mistake in kiting or cooldown usage rather than not enough resil.

Finally many people have been using pure spirit gems in every slot in favor of as much regen as possible which is definately a great idea however, i find i like to have a little more output on my heals so i dont have to heal as much, seeing as i tend to rely on more chi burst spells rather than soothing/surging mist mana spells.

As a result i have been gearing a different way. I am stacking a lot of regen IE over 11k but i try to go for 18000 spell power with t2 and 20% pvp power wit 60% resil. I find this is a good balance of stats for me as it allows me to burst my partners up with relatively low effort as well as putting me in a comfortable position regeneration wise. Remember relying on more chi spells not only uses less mana but also provides even more mana teas.

The scheme ive been following is:

blue slots-  320 spirit gems (sparkling), or 80 int+160 spirit gems (purified)
Red slots-  80 int+160 spirit gems (purified)
Yellow slots- 160 spirit+160 resil gems (turbid)

the result is 3x or 4x 320 spirit gems (sparkling), 3x or 4x 80 int+160 spirit gems (purified) and then 3x 160 spirit+160 resil gems (turbid)

using this scheme u can reach hit:
over 18000 spell power (closer to 19000-21000 with full gear.. im still undergeared as i dinged late)
over 11000 combat regen (closer to 12000 or 12500 with full gear)
and right around 20% pvp power (20-25% in full gear)

this gives a healthy balance of stats and provides great burst heals with some strong combat regen to sustain your mana pool even in long fights.

(I am not saying other methods are bad, as full spirit gems are very strong, i just find for the amount monks are ccd having a little more output is really nice on top of good regen)

2) REFORGE
I am not really sure what the best reforge is especially after patch. Right now im reforging as much spirit as i can as thats straight forward. Then ive been getting haste followed by crit with the lowest emphasis on mastery. I like the way haste meshes with hot ticks especially on Envelop.

SINCE PATCH- i have reforged to 8.5% haste it seems to give 7 ticks to envelop which helps with the 33% stealth nerf. Then i got a ton of sprit, followed by as much crit as i can get. I have yet to drop below 60% mana and always have 5-6 mana teas minimum in reserve)


************************************************************************************
LATEST POST SINCE THREAD IS CONFUSING :)

Played some games on my monk testing ascension with 2% mana meta. It seems broken to say the least, mana tea usage gives nearly 30k mana now. I was over 90% mana every game with literally more teas than i could drink.

I also noticed that the envelop nerf is huge, and we have more chi than we can spend especially with the chi wave issue (flying into grounding and dying while only healing 1 time). i didnt miss chi brew one bit as our chi spells are a lot less desirable than before, there is WAY too much chi now.  I just wish envelop healed slightly more in a pvp setting :... it is nice that im able to rotate 2 envelops on different people in many situations though.

ZEN SPHERE????
I am considering trying zen sphere out as it synergizes well with the renewing mist "nerf" This nerf is somethig i have actually found to be quite nice. The ticks now do less however, they tick faster and with the gain in crit that most of you will find via reforging you get a lot more crits with it. -more ticks, more crits, pretty much more healing before you refresh it in 10-12 seconds. For this reason i may try going zen sphere vs shaman teams to get around annoying grounding totem mechanics. Zen sphere ticks for around 12k per 2 seconds to go along with renewing @5500~ per 2 seconds. Thats a good amount of healing on a partner that you know will stick. (zen sphere is undispellable.) you can also recast it for a decent bit of "aoe healing" but i dont think its as good as letting it tick through with renewing/envelop up and surging a needed. will test in 3s tomorrow.

SURGING MIST?
I am aware that in most cases surging is just a run on mana and i advised you all to stay away from it but, i have found that it is healing for nearly 75k non crit up from 60k of last patch. This coupled with our 352k mana pool and an abundance of teas makes it highly usable. Of course u shouldnt spam it but u can mix a lot of them into your healing style and sit above 70-80% mana all game. (not quite sure why its healing more.... maybe stealth buff to off set envelop dno...)

overall if they fix the chi wave bouncing into grounding nonsense... and the aura mastery actually working, i feel we will be in a very good spot. I encourage all of you to test out ascension with 2% mana meta and zen sphere vs shaman teams. (i still find chi wave to be my best heal 25% nerf or not, just frustrating when u rely on it to heal and it dies in a grounding totem 30 yards away)

sorry for grammar 8 am :)

*************************************************************************************
END
ask questions!

Edited by Moreudirl, 30 November 2012 - 08:40 PM.


#3 Saikx

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

good to see something from you, the only succesful monk this season

+1

Edited by Saikx, 21 November 2012 - 12:28 PM.

Posted Image

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#4 Structural

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:54 PM

can you post your macros by any chance?

#5 Emoeritz

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

Just tossing some ideas.

You should write something about the strengths and weaknesses of monks.
I often encounter the problem that ppl just don't want to play with a monk or any healer except shaman.
The majority thinks our class sucks and thus would never consider playing with us.

Macros could be interesting for some ppl, but I don't think we require much.

Comps, which did you try and what worked.

Thoughts about the upcoming patch would be highly appreciated as well. (Our heals are going to be even more expensive but we'll generate more chi.)

Explanation for talent choices, gems and stats would be nice. Y U NO TAKE Tiger's lust etc. (could be combined with the patch thoughts, cuz chi wave and chi burst will heal 25% less)

#6 Pandalol

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

View PostEmoeritz, on 21 November 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Just tossing some ideas.

You should write something about the strengths and weaknesses of monks.
I often encounter the problem that ppl just don't want to play with a monk or any healer except shaman.
The majority thinks our class sucks and thus would never consider playing with us.

Macros could be interesting for some ppl, but I don't think we require much.

Comps, which did you try and what worked.

Thoughts about the upcoming patch would be highly appreciated as well. (Our heals are going to be even more expensive but we'll generate more chi.)

Explanation for talent choices, gems and stats would be nice. Y U NO TAKE Tiger's lust etc. (could be combined with the patch thoughts, cuz chi wave and chi burst will heal 25% less)

I have the opportunity to play with the OP fadezz on both his shaman and his monk. If i have the choice, im taking his shaman 100% of the time. They are just better in every area. Thats not a monk problem as every healer compares unfavorably, but rather a shaman one.

With that said I really think a well played monk is the 2nd best healer. Its just a very different playstyle compared to every other healer.

Edited by Pandalol, 21 November 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#7 Moreudirl

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

View PostSaikx, on 21 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

good to see something from you, the only succesful monk this season

+1

i would have posted something like this earlier but my real aj account got perma banned =p

@xaszi ill add some of that just wanted to know if people wanted to hear what i had to say, thanks :)

@iskaral i added some helpful macros

Edited by Moreudirl, 21 November 2012 - 09:35 PM.


#8 mnny

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

its all lies

#9 Waterboyl0l

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:45 PM

''LIFE COCOON- this is an extremely powerful cd for the fact that the majority of your heals do 50% more while this shield holds. However, it is dispellable and on a 2 minute cooldown. Id love to see the cooldown reduced to 1.5 minutes and there be some penalty for dispelling. When people ask me what i think i generally say id like to see a penalty that when its dispelled half of the total absorb is healed up front analagous to the lifebloom "bloom" effect. If that is not acceptable for some crazy reason perhaps lower the cd but split the shield portion of the spell from the hot increasing portion and only allow the shield to be dispelled. I prefer the "bloom" mechanic

- Agreed with reduced CD that would be a lot better. I could see this also being remade to be like Priests old power word barrier in cata. I'd rather have 2 aoe heal/absorb spells then what the bubble is now.


''envelop being dispelled... this is a touchy issue as its such a strong heal but its quite expensive chi wise. i feel if it is going to be dispelled it should refund 1 or 2 of the 3 chi cost. Its the equivalent of a shamans greater heal being dispelled. It just isnt good design with no penalty attached to it. alternatively make it undispellable but im afraid that would be far too strong. I dont know guys make some suggestions!!!''

- I think that would be cool if they refunded the chi for it but, I think they could make this spell even better by making a similar like unstable affliction or Vampiric Touch. If a player is geting trained down I think this would be a really cool effect and may be a better choice then spaming surging mist yo


-Also i use my focus for dpsing ie  /stopcasting
/cast [target=focus, exists, nodead, harm] disable; disable; , /stopcasting
/cast [target=focus, exists, nodead, harm] crackling jade lightning; crackling jade lightning;
exc. I feel there is a bit of down time for a few ticks to keep some damage going
Also a 1-3 arena disable for small movement los cc
- Two

Edited by Waterboyl0l, 21 November 2012 - 10:52 PM.


#10 Moreudirl

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

for the deadly reach thing i said remove the blanket aka 4 second silence ^ :)

#11 Waterboyl0l

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:52 PM

MB lol

#12 Panera

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:51 AM

shit dude, wrote alot. can you write a guide for angband too?

#13 Sauve

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

Depending on the team you're running with, the amount of haste needed for an extra tick of enveloping is really low (about 1400, and will drop to 887 come 5.1).  The next threshold is about 6000 haste so reforging haste for an extra tick is not worth it imo.  I have gone full spirit then crit > mastery > haste and have found it to be very good.

Come 5.1, if you aren't playing with a partner that gives the 5% spell haste buff, 2348 haste will give your enveloping an extra tick.  That might be worth reforging to because it isn't too hard to reach.

I think we will actually be in a better spot with the 5.1 changes, even with the Chi Wave nerf.  I noticed you never mentioned using uplift, but I've found uplift to be pretty useful at keeping people topped at times because it heals even when people are out of LoS, so you can stay behind pillars/boxes and dump excess chi on uplift if you have rewewing up and everyone is taking damage.

If you couple this with the fact that spam restarting the channel on soothing mist makes it double tick and give you chi extremely fast you can heal spread damage pretty easily without risking being CC'd.  With the chi generation increase on soothing mist in 5.1 you can probably get 4-5 chi in a couple seconds by just spam restarting soothing mist channel on yourself out of LoS.

Another thing thing worth noting is Dampen Harm may be a better choice when facing demo lock teams (except maybe mage/lock) because diffuse magic doesn't work against chaos wave.  I realize this is my first post but there seems to be very few MWs contributing so I decided to unlock access.

#14 Moreudirl

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:42 PM

uplift is great and i use it from time to time, however, it heals for near nothing with the arena healing debuff+ any player healing debuffs. Generally its better to dump chi elsewhere. Every heal has its place though. (its a good tool to combat blood fear ;))

did not know diffuse magic vs chaos wave. must be because chaos wave is coded as a melee at the moment aka bop immunes them, think its a bug

Edited by Moreudirl, 26 November 2012 - 10:42 PM.


#15 Moreudirl

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:45 AM

anyone else notice enveloping mist doing like 6-8k less per tick, while chi wave is healing the same.

maybe im delusional but either they stealth nerfed envelop or lowered its healing by mistake instead of chi wave?

edit: apparently as the patch hit blizz stealth nerfed enveloping by 33% now it heals just over 110k rather than 190k :( 15k a tick or so in arenas zz

Edited by Moreudirl, 28 November 2012 - 07:02 AM.


#16 Emoeritz

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

Sure, enveloping mist was totally broken... oh wait. :/

I hope there aren't any other "surprises" when servers are back up.

#17 Emoeritz

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

4 piece bonus is still delayed... renewing ticks every 2 seconds (healing got reduced) and like all disarms ours lasts 8 seconds as well.

Okay, to sum this patch up, our heals cost more mana (except soothing lol) but therefor we heal for less! I like the logic behind this, it's not like we fell behind any other healer manawise before.
As icing, not a single bug got fixed, but at least enveloping got a new icon, AT LAST!

sry, I'm kinda mad :(

Edited by Emoeritz, 28 November 2012 - 09:31 AM.


#18 Moreudirl

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:50 AM

i actually find the renewing mist change nice. 2 second ticks are good even if its less in the long run, you usually refresh it... well you always do before it runs its course so its not bad and in some cases probably a buff ;p.

the enveloping stealth nerf is really upsetting, 33% in a stealth nerf is a ton. 10% i can understand but 33? dno.... hopefully they adjust it in pvp its ticking for 15% now that every player has 15% ms (battle fatigue in general tab)

chi wave nerf is hardly noticable except that if a grounding totem is down it wont do any healing as it goes directly to it. That is insanely frustrating. Not sure why they re-coded this as if its bouncing to your partner it will bounce to the grounding totem even it its 30 yards away as long as the enemy is in range. This means u will usually get 1 bounce out of chi wave vs many shaman teams... :(

as for mana im testing ascendance (i miss chi brew already) but with soothing mist change/more chi from tea i hardly ever have a chi shortage, and in return with 2% mana meta im at 352k mana which means mana tea do almost 29k mana instead of 24k. I have yet to go below 70% mana without more than 5 or 6 teas in reserve.

also i tried some new gearing today in 2v2. I got my haste to the point where envelop ticks very quickly and adds a 7th tick ~8.5% haste. Then stacked spirit as much as a could then the rest of the itemization to crit for more mana teas..... i have yet to run oom and envelop is still ok since it ticks 7 times with that amount of haste (even if its ticking for 15k... in arena zzz)

sorry for grammar its 6 am

Edited by Moreudirl, 28 November 2012 - 09:51 AM.


#19 Nadagast

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:53 AM

Should I be a Mistweaver or Windwalker monk!?!

#20 Moreudirl

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:58 AM

View PostNadagast, on 28 November 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Should I be a Mistweaver or Windwalker monk!?!

follow your heart nada




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