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#81 mukuld50

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

Bring back the old soul link for affliction IMO!

#82 brosearch

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

View Postmukuld50, on 07 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Bring back the old soul link for affliction IMO!

that would directly contradict your earlier comment on how locks shouldnt have a passive damage reduction. If you consider soul link a non passive damage reduction then i guess you are right. but lets be real here, soul link is almost the exact same thing as moonkin form or spriest form dmg reduction. the fact that the dmg is transferred to the pet means nothing.

Affliction def needs some mitigation because the dmg we take is far far too high. The other thing which needs to be addressed is our pet health. Our pets have like 180k hp, so if they did bring back soul link, that woudl need be addressed as well. IMO pets should have the same hp as their master and it also needs some kind of passive healing thru dmg like we had in cata. my pet dying from a frost orb aoe is really retarded.

Edited by brosearch, 07 December 2012 - 07:08 PM.


#83 mukuld50

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

View Postbrosearch, on 07 December 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

that would directly contradict your earlier comment on how locks shouldnt have a passive damage reduction. If you consider soul link a non passive damage reduction then i guess you are right. but lets be real here, soul link is almost the exact same thing as moonkin form or spriest form dmg reduction. the fact that the dmg is transferred to the pet means nothing.

No it is not a contradiction.  I am just opposed to giving a X% flat damage reduction to locks without any repercussions.  The fact that damage transferred to the pet means nothing any more is also an issue I would like to see changed.  Locks as a pet management class worked pretty well imo

Edited by mukuld50, 07 December 2012 - 07:38 PM.


#84 Domesauce

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

Terrible mechanics that tie our survivability to pets is exactly what we need. It will work especially well with Sacrifice.

#85 Smir

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

today i played destro mld (druid got very bad gear and mage got t1 but not lots of epic items)

i lost quite some games (also won a few but i think i lost more) vs affliction uholydk restodruid
I WAS SO HAPPY WHEN I LOST, whenever i meet an affliction warlock i still feel great when i loose as i love to see it work in some comps :D


[edit]
oh and shadowcleave dmg seemed sick :D (nearly unhealable for lowgeared druid, means not even t1)

Edited by Smir, 07 December 2012 - 11:59 PM.


#86 Rith

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:58 AM

View Postmukuld50, on 07 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Bring back the old soul link for affliction IMO!

Only reason I would disagree with this is.. people can kill non-felguard pets in 1 global. I rather not having to deal with that again.

#87 Bonjourhihi

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:48 PM

i doubt they will even try to buff affli or make some changes, just stop wow or play the fotm class

#88 Railander

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:42 AM

View PostEiviyn, on 21 November 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Exactly.

There are 2 reasons why aff is dead;

Malefic Grasp. The while spec's damage is built around this one spell.

http://simulationcra...05/Warlock.html

Check that out. About 45% of single target damage is Malefic Grasp. This is Blizzard's excuse to effectively half the damage of dots, to avoid the "problem" of multi-dotting, something aff PvP thrived on. This is now dead, and I doubt they're going to remove MG and mess up aff PvE just for PvP.

Haunt costing a shard. Really. What is this? Nerf Haunt damage, remove shard cost. Aff PvE is too high damage anyway.

Life Tap. Remember that time when Blizzard stated they want to make Life Tap cost a % of your max hp, and everyone went ballistic? Well they ninja-patched it into MoP and I've not seen a single complaint. The total lack of self healing, combined with Life Tap, I swear sometimes I end up half-dead just from dealing damage.

Solution?

- Remove Malefic Grasp and Haunt from Grimoire of Sacrifice, replace it with UA (including UA dispel), Corruption and Agony.
- Buff Siphon Life glyph (makes corr heal you) from 20% of damage done, to 100%. 20% is horrible. 100% will probably offset the life tapping required. In addition, make it heal your pet for the same amount, making Soul Link talent less of a waste of space.
- Nerf Haunt damage and remove the shard cost. Aff PvE is too high anyway, and haunt is basically always up in PvE.
- Double or triple the damage from UA dispel. It's just not doing it's job.

I think the above, plus the new Kil'jaeden's Cunning, will make aff viable without making it overpowered.

Blood Fear should be reworked to;
"Your fear is instant when used against a unit who has inflicted physical damage on you in the past 5 sec."

Keeps the survival aspect of blood fear. Removes the ability to just spam instant CC on random healers with no counter.
i cant believe how much crap a single person can type in a single post.

first of all, you mustnt be playing the same game as me, because affliction damage is pretty real, it only has nearly zero burst, which is basically all that matters nowadays and the reason for that is because healing is too strong while costing low mana, but it wont get nerfed until burst gets handled all around, so yea we wont be seeing affliction before 5.2 at LEAST. good news is that IF they successfully adjust burst and nerf healing, affliction will be again at the top.

now, from some of your examples i can see you also have absolutely no idea of the current numbers running around in matches. when i see suggestions like these: "Double or triple the damage from UA dispel" or "Buff Siphon Life glyph (makes corr heal you) from 20% of damage done, to 100%" it just proves how lost you are.

finally, you should try adjusting yourself to how the game works today and actually try to find out what works and what doesnt instead of being stuck-up to how it used to be years ago and saying "X worked in LK but now it sucks".

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#89 brosearch

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

View PostRailander, on 10 December 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

i cant believe how much crap a single person can type in a single post.

first of all, you mustnt be playing the same game as me, because affliction damage is pretty real, it only has nearly zero burst, which is basically all that matters nowadays and the reason for that is because healing is too strong while costing low mana, but it wont get nerfed until burst gets handled all around, so yea we wont be seeing affliction before 5.2 at LEAST. good news is that IF they successfully adjust burst and nerf healing, affliction will be again at the top.

now, from some of your examples i can see you also have absolutely no idea of the current numbers running around in matches. when i see suggestions like these: "Double or triple the damage from UA dispel" or "Buff Siphon Life glyph (makes corr heal you) from 20% of damage done, to 100%" it just proves how lost you are.

finally, you should try adjusting yourself to how the game works today and actually try to find out what works and what doesnt instead of being stuck-up to how it used to be years ago and saying "X worked in LK but now it sucks".

sorry bro but im going to have call out the bullshit when i see it. Affliction damage isnt real. Its pathetic. If you think UA/corruption ticking for 5500 and criting for 10k are real then i dont know what to say. People have 400k hp and our dots dont even harm them.

The only time afflic dmg is respectable is with dark soul, trinket, haunt, and we Channel MG the entire time. Other then that, there is no pressure.

If you also consider too that dispels rape this spec harder now then ever before, its becomes even more hilarious. If you fight a good team who does damage and dispels, its laughable how lopsided the game becomes. UA dipsel dmg crits for like 42k tops. Tripling that dmg would be totally fine. In a world of 400k hp, how is choosing to lose over 100k of your hp for dispeling a problem?

The spec needs way better dmg, better survivability, and much better dispel protection. Anyone who doesn't believe this is either A) in denial :duckers: biased against afflic locks C) cant do math

Edited by brosearch, 10 December 2012 - 05:29 PM.


#90 Railander

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:16 AM

View Postbrosearch, on 10 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

sorry bro but im going to have call out the bullshit when i see it. Affliction damage isnt real. Its pathetic. If you think UA/corruption ticking for 5500 and criting for 10k are real then i dont know what to say. People have 400k hp and our dots dont even harm them.

The only time afflic dmg is respectable is with dark soul, trinket, haunt, and we Channel MG the entire time. Other then that, there is no pressure.

If you also consider too that dispels rape this spec harder now then ever before, its becomes even more hilarious. If you fight a good team who does damage and dispels, its laughable how lopsided the game becomes. UA dipsel dmg crits for like 42k tops. Tripling that dmg would be totally fine. In a world of 400k hp, how is choosing to lose over 100k of your hp for dispeling a problem?

The spec needs way better dmg, better survivability, and much better dispel protection. Anyone who doesn't believe this is either A) in denial :duckers: biased against afflic locks C) cant do math
affliction's dmg isnt pathetic. if it was i wouldn't be topping every meter in the end of the match. putting up PRESSURE is not necessarily measured by high dps. problem is healers have virtually infinite mana and healing spells are too big and since affliction has no burst there is also no pressure in result of it. in fact, unless you can lock down a healer in some way you'll NEVER see pressure from ANY spec currently in the game (not counting burst of course, which completely ignores the point of putting up pressure to simply blowing someone up before it can start to heal).
the reason you think affli is good with cds up is beacuse the burst is higher. you need to know the difference bewteen dmg output and burst.

40k tripled would equal to 120k and assuming you're glyphed it'd translate to 120k to BOTH targets (in case it didnt dispel itself). i think we have enough 100k+ hitting abilities in the game as it is. i do think it should be almost doubled though but more than that would lose the purpose since UA's dmg only seems insignificant because heals are overtuned. if they get toned down UA will suddenly be a lot better.

now keeping the best for last. you do know that "how much a dot ticks for" has NOTHING to do with how well you can do dmg, right? warlock's base tick frequency went down from 3 sec to 2 sec, which by itself results in a 50% dps buff compared to cata and prior assuming the same tick numbers, not to mention agony went from the worst to the best dot while the other 2 remained about the same.

finally, the spec's dmg is fine, it only really lacks burst. passive mitigation is also not the best. but then, most of afli's problem could be solved by simply toning down burst and healing all across, which IMO is the right way to go for the game.

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#91 Sascatuan

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

you just said you wouldnt be topping meters if it was pathetic....thats hilarious.....im done.

Edited by Sascatuan, 11 December 2012 - 07:40 AM.

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#92 saffie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

Why is there even a debate on this? Our dots tick almost half of what shadow priest dots tick for. And we are nowhere capable of pulling the same burst as them with no cds up. MG is where most of the warlock damage comes from and its not possible to pve rotation someone trying to channel a spell like MG. But since its balanced in pve I don't see our damage changing much, but maybe they can give us some utility, survivability, cc, something.

I hate not having passive damage reduction, taking %15 less damage in shadow form is such a huge difference than eating all of the damage from a warrior cleave. Once you run out of cds you are more or less dead, there are brainless warriors who heroic leap me and pop reck instantly and kill me through all my cds. Why are warlocks the only class that lost so many spells just for them to be put on the talent tree while all other classes kept their spells and got extra things on their talent trees? Why do we have to pick between coil, howl and SF? Between SL and other defensive cds?

#93 Railander

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:23 PM

View Postsaffie, on 11 December 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Why is there even a debate on this? Our dots tick almost half of what shadow priest dots tick for. And we are nowhere capable of pulling the same burst as them with no cds up. MG is where most of the warlock damage comes from and its not possible to pve rotation someone trying to channel a spell like MG. But since its balanced in pve I don't see our damage changing much, but maybe they can give us some utility, survivability, cc, something.

I hate not having passive damage reduction, taking %15 less damage in shadow form is such a huge difference than eating all of the damage from a warrior cleave. Once you run out of cds you are more or less dead, there are brainless warriors who heroic leap me and pop reck instantly and kill me through all my cds. Why are warlocks the only class that lost so many spells just for them to be put on the talent tree while all other classes kept their spells and got extra things on their talent trees? Why do we have to pick between coil, howl and SF? Between SL and other defensive cds?
just because you dont know enough of your own class it doesnt make your arguments any less pointless.
EVEN IF spriest dots tick harder, ours had a base tick frequency reduced by 50%, which equals in 50 more dps, so to really compare out dots to spriests you need to increase their tick value by 50%.
yes, they have more burst, and like i said at least 3 times already afli's burst is practically zero.
afli's dmg is not the problem, its burst is.

and yes i do top meters. if you dont ur most likely using some single target rotation that uses fel flame in place of MG instead of playing s11 style and dotting shit up. try doing that next time.
oh btw
thats hilarious.....im done

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#94 brosearch

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:03 PM

View PostRailander, on 11 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

just because you dont know enough of your own class it doesnt make your arguments any less pointless.
EVEN IF spriest dots tick harder, ours had a base tick frequency reduced by 50%, which equals in 50 more dps, so to really compare out dots to spriests you need to increase their tick value by 50%.
yes, they have more burst, and like i said at least 3 times already afli's burst is practically zero.
afli's dmg is not the problem, its burst is.

and yes i do top meters. if you dont ur most likely using some single target rotation that uses fel flame in place of MG instead of playing s11 style and dotting shit up. try doing that next time.
oh btw
thats hilarious.....im done

show us those amazing ratings you have as affliction. o wait they don't exist. just stop debating this dude you arent some amazing player who can teach us all how to play now. you are, and have been, speaking out of ignorance. nobody gives a shit about you advocating this hidden power of afflic that doesnt exist.

no dmg
no dispel proteciton
no survivability
no debate

#95 Coldizzle

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

remove blood fear, inscrease afflic dmg cya demo locks

#96 Megan89

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

yes, they have more burst, and like i said at least 3 times already afli's burst is practically zero.
afli's dmg is not the problem, its burst is. - "just because you dont know enough of your own class it doesnt make your arguments any less pointless."  
you don't aswell than.What affly lock need right now isnt the burst,is a 20-25% damage on every dots to increase the pressure on 3 target,since right now the damage they do is totaly healable by the healing Tide.Of course you top damage,you be fucking bad not doing it,but you cant kill anything coz you dont have enoght pressure.in S 10-11 like you said ,you could have dots 3 target ,single fear the healer and get everyone on 50% ,and for how the game became now ,they wont FIX AFFLY AT ALL,since in pve seems to be the best spect by far,so we could stay here hours talking about this ,but blizzard wont fix anything.
Happy christmas. :duckers:

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#97 Breez

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:23 PM

Problem is that healing is too bursty aswell, if they will do as they said and nerf healing by additional 15% it will help affliction alot. But yea, they have to buff UA dispell atleast. Also funny thing is that we have to use our health to get mana back, but we have no passive selfhealing lol, blizzard logic.

Edited by Breez, 11 December 2012 - 07:31 PM.


#98 saffie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

View PostMegan89, on 11 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

yes, they have more burst, and like i said at least 3 times already afli's burst is practically zero.
afli's dmg is not the problem, its burst is. - "just because you dont know enough of your own class it doesnt make your arguments any less pointless."  
you don't aswell than.What affly lock need right now isnt the burst,is a 20-25% damage on every dots to increase the pressure on 3 target,since right now the damage they do is totaly healable by the healing Tide.Of course you top damage,you be fucking bad not doing it,but you cant kill anything coz you dont have enoght pressure.in S 10-11 like you said ,you could have dots 3 target ,single fear the healer and get everyone on 50% ,and for how the game became now ,they wont FIX AFFLY AT ALL,since in pve seems to be the best spect by far,so we could stay here hours talking about this ,but blizzard wont fix anything.
Happy christmas. :duckers:

no man, this random indead warlock obviously knows better.. he tops meters and I use felflame :D

#99 Domesauce

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:36 PM

I don't think increasing our damage across 3 targets will do anything for us without other major game changes, pressure is meaningless right now. What I would like is for our regular single target (DoTs + Fel Flame) damage to be higher, and our maximum single target (Dark Soul, chain Haunts, Malefic) damage to be lower. Well really I think our maximum could stay the same but there has to be a trade-off. I just don't like either being good with CDs+resources+casts or useless without.

Also a side note, topping damage meters as Affliction doesn't mean you're doing it right. The way you do maximum DPS is to Dark Soul on CD and dump shards into Soul Swaps, but the way you actually get kills is to get a good set up and dump shards into Haunt.

Edited by Domesauce, 11 December 2012 - 09:55 PM.


#100 Railander

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

i forgot how people on AJ never try to read what others are trying to say.

things like "show us some amazing ratings" or "we cant put up pressure" have absolutely no direct correlation to affliction's dps.
pressure doesnt exist because healing is overtuned, and that is true to ALL specs in the game right now. kills in arena arent due to pressure, but rather blowing someone up before it can even start to be healed, since if there WAS a healer casting you wouldnt even see health bars drop below 50%.
that said, afli locks are undertuned right now because since they have zero burst you just cant score kills as afli, NOT because it doesnt do dmg.
if you only tried going one arena match dotting every shit up you'd see the score numbers at the end of the match, but you'd still probably lose because healing is OP and i assure you there are other locks to back this up.

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