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#121 brosearch

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostNadagast, on 13 December 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

The problem is both IMO

and dispel protection.

#122 Domesauce

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:46 PM

It's both... but I'd be fine with having my damage cut in half if I could find a way to live through idiot cleaves that target me and don't let go of their W key

#123 saffie

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

We dont even need that much change, lets be realistic they won't tweak the damage since it effects pve too much. but making UA dispel hit much more wouldn't effect pve and would help us a lot.

We need passive damage reduction, cleaves are doing too much damage on us without their cds up forcing cds without popping anything themselves. We used to be fine vs warriors when we tp unless they had heroic leap but now they have way too much mobility that they catch up on the portal almost instantly.

Also maybe not a huge deal but I think gateway cast time should be around 2 seconds and we shouldnt have to choose between coil shadowfury and howl, we should have 1 of those as a base spell. And then they can nerf blood fear AND tremor totem.

#124 Nadagast

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:04 AM

View Postsaffie, on 13 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

We dont even need that much change, lets be realistic they won't tweak the damage since it effects pve too much. but making UA dispel hit much more wouldn't effect pve and would help us a lot.

We need passive damage reduction, cleaves are doing too much damage on us without their cds up forcing cds without popping anything themselves. We used to be fine vs warriors when we tp unless they had heroic leap but now they have way too much mobility that they catch up on the portal almost instantly.

Also maybe not a huge deal but I think gateway cast time should be around 2 seconds and we shouldnt have to choose between coil shadowfury and howl, we should have 1 of those as a base spell. And then they can nerf blood fear AND tremor totem.

I agree entirely with you about our defense, Shadowfury/Coil/Howl, and Tremor Totem + Blood Fear.  I haven't played Affliction since the healing nerf, but I imagine that our damage would still be in a bad place, even with a UA dispel damage buff.  Affliction has damage/finishing problems even if they don't dispel any of your DoTs.

#125 elorahnahimi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:24 AM

i've tried playing aff this season, literally the worst exp of my life.. from start to finish i have a warrior tunneling into me while i lose 40% chunks of my hp and cant life tap, i have no idea how blizzard managed to make this season so bad :/


the only way i see them buffing aff is giving us some kind of passive damage reduce and maybe adding some glyph that makes dots scale better with pvp power like someone else said. even if you dont want to admit it aff pressure is easily the lowest in the game, the only class i can think of with lower pressure is a monk and even they have more burst and ability to survive cleaves.

Edited by elorahnahimi, 14 December 2012 - 01:27 AM.

What this game really needs is a Duelist mount. It can be the same model as the Gladiator mount, but maybe have a gimpy leg and only be able to fly around in circles. I'd still ride it.

#126 Railander

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:23 AM

View Postelorahnahimi, on 14 December 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

i've tried playing aff this season, literally the worst exp of my life.. from start to finish i have a warrior tunneling into me while i lose 40% chunks of my hp and cant life tap, i have no idea how blizzard managed to make this season so bad :/


the only way i see them buffing aff is giving us some kind of passive damage reduce and maybe adding some glyph that makes dots scale better with pvp power like someone else said. even if you dont want to admit it aff pressure is easily the lowest in the game, the only class i can think of with lower pressure is a monk and even they have more burst and ability to survive cleaves.
we're taking too much dmg because we really have no peels. mages have slow/roots/armors, spriests have passive 15% not to mention inumerous other stuffs. our only strong point is amazing but big cds, nothing against constant pressure.

about afli's dmg, again, afli's dmg is fine, its healers that are healing too much. just try dotting everything up and report back the scoreboard of that arena, i bet you'll do more dmg than any warrior.
another problem is that afli has 0 burst, which makes it even worse since healing is too strong you can only accomplish anything with burst.
its getting tiring to see people complaining about afli's dmg and completely ignore the big elephant in the room that is overtuned and manaless healing.

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#127 vacantt

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:30 AM

View PostRailander, on 14 December 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

we're taking too much dmg because we really have no peels. mages have slow/roots/armors, spriests have passive 15% not to mention inumerous other stuffs. our only strong point is amazing but big cds, nothing against constant pressure.

about afli's dmg, again, afli's dmg is fine, its healers that are healing too much. just try dotting everything up and report back the scoreboard of that arena, i bet you'll do more dmg than any warrior.
another problem is that afli has 0 burst, which makes it even worse since healing is too strong you can only accomplish anything with burst.
its getting tiring to see people complaining about afli's dmg and completely ignore the big elephant in the room that is overtuned and manaless healing.

This post orchestrates how I feel almost exactly. I think DoTs should hit a bit harder at the expense of a weaker haunt/mg, our damage should be less dependent on mg and we're in desperate need of dispel protection, but I agree 100% that ridiculous, manaless healing is the main problem.

#128 Railander

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:55 AM

View Postvacantt, on 14 December 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

This post orchestrates how I feel almost exactly. I think DoTs should hit a bit harder at the expense of a weaker haunt/mg, our damage should be less dependent on mg and we're in desperate need of dispel protection, but I agree 100% that ridiculous, manaless healing is the main problem.
and the reason overtuned heals exist is because there is too much cd stacking still going around.

Edited by Railander, 14 December 2012 - 02:56 AM.

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#129 Nadagast

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:58 AM

View PostRailander, on 14 December 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

about afli's dmg, again, afli's dmg is fine, its healers that are healing too much. just try dotting everything up and report back the scoreboard of that arena, i bet you'll do more dmg than any warrior.

This is not the right way to measure Affliction's damage.  We damn well better be doing more damage than a Warrior, in nearly every game.  And that is not the case right now.  Our damage is more spread out in time and players than Warrior damage, and we don't have MS.  We have to do more overall damage for our damage to be worth the same amount of pressure as theirs.

#130 Railander

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:02 AM

View PostNadagast, on 14 December 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

This is not the right way to measure Affliction's damage.  We damn well better be doing more damage than a Warrior, in nearly every game.  And that is not the case right now.  Our damage is more spread out in time and players than Warrior damage, and we don't have MS.  We have to do more overall damage for our damage to be worth the same amount of pressure as theirs.
yes, but like i said, this is only a problem because healing is overtuned. once healing gets on track (im optimistic) we'll be back to how cataclysm felt: dots dont feel like doing much dmg but if multi dotting healers cant top everybody up at the same time, which translates into pressure, even without MS debuff.

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#131 Domesauce

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:08 AM

I don't think people saying healing is too strong are even playing the same game as me, there is so much shit that just does unhealable damage all game. Affliction just isn't one of them

#132 Railander

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:35 AM

View PostDomesauce, on 14 December 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

I don't think people saying healing is too strong are even playing the same game as me, there is so much shit that just does unhealable damage all game. Affliction just isn't one of them
the reason its "unhealable" has actually nothing to do with dps>hps
its because burst is too strong. if you have a personal healer spamming heals at you and you had, say, 1m health (to prevent one shots) no matter what people threw at you you wont die (until he goes OOM that is)

not to mention you cant always sit in one place and spam casted heals because of interrupts etc

edit: although i dont know how its like now that the healing debuff is 30%

Edited by Railander, 14 December 2012 - 03:40 AM.

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#133 Domesauce

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:43 AM

The reason it's "unhealable" is because it's actually literally not healable. At least in the game I'm playing, even before heal nerf

Edited by Domesauce, 14 December 2012 - 03:45 AM.


#134 Nadagast

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:51 AM

View PostRailander, on 14 December 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

yes, but like i said, this is only a problem because healing is overtuned. once healing gets on track (im optimistic) we'll be back to how cataclysm felt: dots dont feel like doing much dmg but if multi dotting healers cant top everybody up at the same time, which translates into pressure, even without MS debuff.

Again, I don't think this is the right comparison.  We should be compared to other DPS classes, not to healing.  Healing will be strong or weak relative to damage overall.  For Warlocks to be a good class, we need to be strong relative to other DPS classes.

#135 Railander

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

View PostDomesauce, on 14 December 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

The reason it's "unhealable" is because it's actually literally not healable. At least in the game I'm playing, even before heal nerf
then im definitely playing a different game because i cant think of anything that heals more than a paladin or shaman free casting and stuff

View PostNadagast, on 14 December 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Again, I don't think this is the right comparison.  We should be compared to other DPS classes, not to healing.  Healing will be strong or weak relative to damage overall.  For Warlocks to be a good class, we need to be strong relative to other DPS classes.
even if we do it like that, most of the classes that are above afli are above afli because they're OP. even the ones that are not OP arent above us because they do more dmg but because they have more on demand dmg (burst), and thats BECAUSE healing is too strong.

the way i see it instead of buffing everybody to OP level (think season 5) its easier to just nerf the specs above average to the same level.

Edited by Railander, 14 December 2012 - 04:00 AM.

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#136 Domesauce

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:19 AM

Well if you only mean that 2 classes healing is too strong then don't just say healing is too strong, that's the kind of thing that makes us end up with blanket 30% healing nerfs. And even then you probably only mean certain burst heals from those classes

Edited by Domesauce, 14 December 2012 - 04:23 AM.


#137 elorahnahimi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:58 AM

View PostRailander, on 14 December 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

yes, but like i said, this is only a problem because healing is overtuned. once healing gets on track (im optimistic) we'll be back to how cataclysm felt: dots dont feel like doing much dmg but if multi dotting healers cant top everybody up at the same time, which translates into pressure, even without MS debuff.

it isn't a healing problem, dots are ticking or 3k damage man, this isn't pressure, aff damage IS a problem.

aff warlocks can do ok numbers at the end of the game from multi dotting, but that doesn't mean its pressure.. when 95% of your spread pressure is canceled out by passive self healing you're not actually doing anything.

Edited by elorahnahimi, 14 December 2012 - 06:02 AM.

What this game really needs is a Duelist mount. It can be the same model as the Gladiator mount, but maybe have a gimpy leg and only be able to fly around in circles. I'd still ride it.

#138 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:34 AM

View Postelorahnahimi, on 14 December 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

it isn't a healing problem, dots are ticking or 3k damage man, this isn't pressure, aff damage IS a problem.

aff warlocks can do ok numbers at the end of the game from multi dotting, but that doesn't mean its pressure.. when 95% of your spread pressure is canceled out by passive self healing you're not actually doing anything.
I agree that Affliction numbers are low, but "passive self healing" does not exist anymore. Spriest VE is now a cooldown. Second Wind is now a low health passive. Warlock Corruption self healing is gone. Healing Stream has a cooldown and can be killed. Affliction should actually do decent now that healing is 30% less effective. You can really feel it. I wouldn't be surprised if WLS or MLS were strong right now.

#139 Rith

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:16 AM

View PostTalbadar, on 14 December 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

I agree that Affliction numbers are low, but "passive self healing" does not exist anymore. Spriest VE is now a cooldown. Second Wind is now a low health passive. Warlock Corruption self healing is gone. Healing Stream has a cooldown and can be killed. Affliction should actually do decent now that healing is 30% less effective. You can really feel it. I wouldn't be surprised if WLS or MLS were strong right now.

It would be strong if affliction had some extra survivability. Demo has an extra port, and destro has self heals. Its honestly the shittiest spec out of the three in terms of living. You might be able to get away using the port glyph but honestly the amount of damage other classes do, and the amount of damage affliction takes, its not viable at all.

I still stick to my point that damage is fine for affliction, other classes are def retarded but if affliction damage was buffed anymore we would be just as broken. I'd take a damage cut on demon soul for more sustained "bursty" damage. I feel like a god in demon soul, but a cc bot shooting purple beams outside of it.

#140 Thasta

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:50 AM

Affliction pressure definitely feels better after the healing nerf. If they would shift some of the damage from demon soul into passive damage affliction would probably be pretty good. I also think if they buffed our damage outright we would be overpowered.

Playing affliction with Grimoire of Supremacy and Sacrificial pact I don't feel TOO squishy, it just sucks our passive survivability is terrible and we rely so much on defensive cooldowns. One thing affliction has over the other two specs is soulburn: teleport (8 second 50% sprint + freedom) and a 70% glyphed curse of exhaustion.

Edited by Thasta, 14 December 2012 - 07:54 AM.





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