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Finally - victory for Snutz, Venruki and Kollektiv


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#81 Xandyn

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:26 PM

View Postaveragepriestz, on 22 November 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Xandyn try to read your own post one more time. It is one big contradiction.
well you didn't really understand what I wrote then

caster cleaves have a higher chance to win (generally) when playing in a tournament. it's impossible or at least very hard to play in tournaments and not make any mistakes, therefore caster cleaves are more reliable in tournaments, and that only means one thing, that caster cleaves have a higher/steadier chance to win, because they are less susceptible to mistakes costing them a game.

that, however, DOES NOT mean they are easier to play. no certain comp is easier to play than any other comp, because it all comes down to the players behind the comp, and what I mean by this as a Mage:

I will play RMP and it's going to be just as 'hard' for me to perform as it would be playing a caster cleave, you still have to work as much in the game, still have to perform your best, however if you DON'T perform your best, you're less likely to loss, that does not mean it's easier to actually play the game because of the comp.

happy to clear that up for you

#82 averagepriestz

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

Listen Xandyn, I get your point. But if one comp has room for more mistakes, it directly makes it easier to play. Do you see what I mean? You are still contradicting yourself. If they have a higher chance to win, they are easier to play.

I agree that caster cleaves can make more mistakes, and still come out of top, and that is why you see no melee cleaves being successful, since they land in a CC and lose. One mistake from their healer, and they are out. But that also makes the comp harder to succeed with, despite the melee classes perhaps having a lower skillcap than say, a Mage. But they will still have to play that much better, in order to win, or have the caster cleaves commit huge mistakes.

You generally have to be the better players in order to win an uneven matchup.

#83 Miseryloll

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:05 PM

gratz on s11 xan

#84 Xandyn

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

View Postaveragepriestz, on 22 November 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

Listen Xandyn, I get your point. But if one comp has room for more mistakes, it directly makes it easier to play. Do you see what I mean? You are still contradicting yourself. If they have a higher chance to win, they are easier to play.

I agree that caster cleaves can make more mistakes, and still come out of top, and that is why you see no melee cleaves being successful, since they land in a CC and lose. One mistake from their healer, and they are out. But that also makes the comp harder to succeed with, despite the melee classes perhaps having a lower skillcap than say, a Mage. But they will still have to play that much better, in order to win, or have the caster cleaves commit huge mistakes.

You generally have to be the better players in order to win an uneven matchup.

I understand what you mean, but I disagree, just because our opinions mismatch doesn't mean that I am contradicting myself.
I can give you an analogy, perhaps a poor one. Let's pretend that protoss has the upper hand vs zerg in sc2(not saying it does), it won't be easier for the zerg player to play the game, he will work just as hard as the protoss, but likely he will have higher chance to win, despite having made a few mistakes
.it's a poor analogy, but it showcases my point of view. I just think because a certain comp has better chance to win, it doesn't mean that the players are just having easier time actually playing the game. Just because something is more dominant, it might not be easier.

I played RMP and MLS a lot, and for me MLS has always been harder to play, I would stress vs good opponents, but I knew if I don't mess up, I will win. Whereas as RMP if I play just as good, and not mess anything up, I still might lose, but RMP has always been easier for me to play.

Edited by Xandyn, 23 November 2012 - 05:18 PM.


#85 Thaya

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

You're just talking about some comps being more limited than other comps.
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#86 Xandyn

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

View PostThaya, on 23 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

You're just talking about some comps being more limited than other comps.

I doubt you understand me better than I do.
No, I don't mean that, literally what I wrote is what I mean, and I wrote it twice now, not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

Better comp does not equal easier to play, easier to perform well with (WINRATE%-wise, not playing-wise), yes, but the players still have to input just as much effort when playing in tournaments, regardless of comp, if they don't, they are in risk to lose.

Also, caster cleave as a comp actually has a very high skill-cap, a lot of coordination between the team members, yes it can have infinite CC chains, etc, but that all just contributes to skill cap of the comp, so to say it's an easier comp to play is non-sense (imo). This is all just my opinion however, and I don't mind if everyone on this forum board disagrees with me, but to say I'm contradicting myself is not right.

Edited by Xandyn, 24 November 2012 - 02:57 AM.


#87 Thaya

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just that you're wording your posts in a way that I have to read several times to make sure I interpret is correctly. All you're trying to say is this that comp effectiveness/viability has little to do how difficult it is to play.

Edited by Thaya, 24 November 2012 - 12:36 PM.

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#88 Xandyn

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

View PostThaya, on 24 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just that you're wording your posts in a way that I have to read several times to make sure I interpret is correctly. All you're trying to say is this that comp effectiveness/viability has little to do how difficult it is to play.

Yes. Neither RMP nor MLS/MLD as comps are limited skill-cap comps. There are infinite amount of things that you can do as RMP to outplay the opposing team, and just about infinite things you can do as MLS/MLD as well. I found RMP easier to play, because having a rogue to peel for me when needed, targets being stunned for me, etc., has always been easier for me than playing with a lock.

So, just to blatantly state 'wizard cleaves are easier to play' is wrong. Stating, 'wizard cleaves - higher chance to win, because they're more reliable for tournament level play' is the correct wording.

#89 Shmdjk

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

whyd you hack hydra tho

#90 Spontanity

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

Xandyn - Rank 1 Season 11

#91 Justblaze

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:09 AM

View PostShmdjk, on 24 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

whyd you hack hydra tho

why does any1 make a dumb decision...

#92 Xandyn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:17 AM

View PostSpontanity, on 25 November 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

Xandyn - Rank 1 Season 11

Yea I'm sorry your hero hydra didn't get r1, the same hero that got beat by me every time I faced him, and the same hero who's got the rating in the first place by farming bad teams at high mmr, start of the season.



#93 bigdickjoe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:39 AM

I like drama , god do I like drama
I am a whore for this stuff

#94 Dimitrije S.

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

Congratz guys!




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