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#1 Shrouds

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:29 AM

Okay, so agree or disagree but these are the things I think should change:

1. Players are TOO powerful. This should be a world that you play in and have no control over not the other way around. Why does this matter? Well in BC, when it was still hard to level (as you could die) damage wasn't that bad. Once they changed that with wotlk and players got more powerful we saw burst go WAY up. This continued with Cataclysm and then with MoP. Not only does it make the game feel like less of a world, but it also directly impacts arena cause they can't balance it.

2. Classes all have the same abilities:
-Self-Healing
-Stuns/Silence/Fear
-Pets
Every class feels the same because you're just spamming buttons like a PvE rotation. Also, Self-Healing should NOT be there for every class at the level it is.

3. There are TOO many abilities. This is the reason you keep spamming buttons that used to be much simpler and took more effort to time. For example, in BC with rogues pooling energy for kidney shot/burst. Or a paladin had a HoJ which they could use: for more damage, to stun to heal themselves, to prevent them from reaching your ally, and much more. Each class had unique abilities and MANA actually mattered, which made it much more interesting. On top of that, the abilities don't feel as fun. If you were to get off many spells then it would really hurt, but that meant you had lined up good CC or the other team sucked.

4. Everything is an instant ability or close to quick cast. It kind of ruins the point of a "caster." More importantly no one ever asked fore more instant abilities or CC, in fact the opposite yet we keep getting MORE AND MORE!!!

5. This leads to there being way too much CC because every class is the same. Burning Crusade was based on comps, but mainly mistakes would lead your teams too lose. Once WOTLK came around we saw so many zerg comps where mistakes wouldn't impact you as badly and it was even more based on comp (beastcleave, tsg, wizard cleave.)

6. Base 40% reduction. This makes it so people starting out in BGs can do no dmg and also get raped. In terms of arena, it really hasn't balanced anything and the FOTM still stands stronger then ever. The goal maybe to make it so high end arena is fair, but all it's really done is unbalance pvp in battlegrounds; and still high end is unbalanced. So I'm not saying remove it, but it's not doing it's job at all. On a site note, doing dailies or world pvp, swapping between gear is almost night to day which defeats the purpose of having the "forced into world" interaction.

7. This goes with PvE and PvP, Blizzard made the game they way they wanted to and it was time consuming and challenging. Every expansion everything gets easier and then when they try to make it "artificially" hard, it fails. They can still make it challenging without being time consuming but they need to not give everyone everything.

Remember when you had to get gold for your mounts? Epics weren't everything? You could actually die in the world?
The world used to be mysterious and dangerous; while some of that can't be returned, too much of it got taken away and that's what made it boring.  

Anyways that's just my two cents. Thanks for reading!

#2 Bonduz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

the game completely dead so I don't have the urge to log in and do nothing

Edited by Bonduz, 19 November 2012 - 07:57 AM.


#3 ROKMODE

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

Half of this stuff isn't even related to pvp. Since this is a pvp(arena) forum, I think that should be the focus for your "rant." Frankly, many like me could care less if wow feels like a world. We come here to talk about the pvp aspect of the game. Not to mention, your ideas are so vague that pretty much anyone who has played this game for a while with half of a brain could have come up with them. All of us know things that could or should be changed. The real theory-crafting should be centered around specifics and ways that they could implement the ideas. I disagree with your sentiment as well of "that's what made it boring." Are you sure it's not because this game has been running for like what, 8 years?
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#4 acushi

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:27 PM

I find myself utterly fucked if my masters call is on CD because of that 8s dispel CD.  Dispel that deep freeze? Np. Psyfiend coming your way.

I find myself doing absolutely nothing for a good 20-30 seconds in critical parts of matches because of this fucking dispel change and the healer just getting blanket silenced or stunned.

#5 idevpro

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:41 PM

View Postacushi, on 19 November 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I find myself utterly fucked if my masters call is on CD because of that 8s dispel CD.  Dispel that deep freeze? Np. Psyfiend coming your way.

I find myself doing absolutely nothing for a good 20-30 seconds in critical parts of matches because of this fucking dispel change and the healer just getting blanket silenced or stunned.

I just had many of those games today that i ragequitted, half min cc from godmode, then 1 deep dead. gg so hard to play
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#6 Shrouds

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:30 AM

View PostROKMODE, on 19 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Half of this stuff isn't even related to pvp. Since this is a pvp(arena) forum, I think that should be the focus for your "rant." Frankly, many like me could care less if wow feels like a world. We come here to talk about the pvp aspect of the game. Not to mention, your ideas are so vague that pretty much anyone who has played this game for a while with half of a brain could have come up with them. All of us know things that could or should be changed. The real theory-crafting should be centered around specifics and ways that they could implement the ideas. I disagree with your sentiment as well of "that's what made it boring." Are you sure it's not because this game has been running for like what, 8 years?
Because players are TOO powerful every expansion arena gets more unbalanced. They try to make all melee classes the same, all casters, all healers etc. It starts with PvE and the world becoming less of a world then carries over to pvp and arena.

#7 hekumzx

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:36 AM

This game is 8 years old, if you want to feel like alice in wonderland, play something new.

Otherwise, dictionary.com evolution.  Then context.  Fill in the missing pieces.

A comprehensive look at resto shaman, from the inside out - http://i.imgur.com/icr36xO.png

Posted Image

Official Blizzard Quote:

11/18/10
Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#8 Bonjourhihi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:43 AM



great song

#9 Regent

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:00 AM

I think the dispel change was bad. It was supposed to "add skill" to the game by making you choose when to dispel. How it turned out:

Partner gets a full 8 second instant fear, dispel.

Partner immediately gets an 8 second polymorph. No dispel, eats it all even though the healer is sitting there with no cc on him whatsoever. AKA the reason godcomp is god.

It also feels extremely dumb how easy it is to negate dots. Probably overpowerd, dispelling 6 dots in one global, and by the time they get dots rolling again you can dispel them off.

I also think that damage needs to be at a level where people can eventually die without all burst CDs being popped. Healers shouldn't have unlimited mana over the entire match, if two dps train a healer for more than a few seconds, the healer should start getting in trouble.  It is far too easy to survive people without CDS, and stacking burst CDs is far to good. I guess Blizzard understands this, and hopefully the next patch will help.

Things like deepfreeze and frostbomb are bad for the game (and similar abilities). Positioning in the game has become far less important than it used to, so many classes have instant cc's/stuns and insane amount of gap closers, etc. I felt like before Cata, you had to actively watch your positioning and move with your team and coordinate much more than now. Now you can just blink deep someone and completely negate their positioning, charge ever few second, double deathgrip. Too many instants also, even the nerf to interrupts hasn't done a ton.

I feel like the game could be moving in the right direction, at least Blizzard has been trying to show they care somewhat, which is better than certain times over the last few years.

Edited by Regent, 21 November 2012 - 03:03 AM.


#10 CGK

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:01 AM

i'd like to see ghostcrawler replaced, but that's just me
<3

#11 Pritchard

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:56 AM

View PostRegent, on 21 November 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Things like deepfreeze and frostbomb are bad for the game (and similar abilities)


Deep freeze has been in the game since the beginning of wrath, the only thing bad about deep freeze IS frost bomb and other high burst damage abilities from other classes.  The fact that they added MORE instant cc to the game is not because of deep freeze, its because blizzard is stupid..    Deep freeze in itself is FAR from being "bad for the game"  seeing as its been a mage tool for years now.

#12 Hackattack3

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

View PostRegent, on 21 November 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

I think the dispel change was bad. It was supposed to "add skill" to the game by making you choose when to dispel. How it turned out:

Partner gets a full 8 second instant fear, dispel.

Partner immediately gets an 8 second polymorph. No dispel, eats it all even though the healer is sitting there with no cc on him whatsoever. AKA the reason godcomp is god.

It also feels extremely dumb how easy it is to negate dots. Probably overpowerd, dispelling 6 dots in one global, and by the time they get dots rolling again you can dispel them off.

I also think that damage needs to be at a level where people can eventually die without all burst CDs being popped. Healers shouldn't have unlimited mana over the entire match, if two dps train a healer for more than a few seconds, the healer should start getting in trouble.  It is far too easy to survive people without CDS, and stacking burst CDs is far to good. I guess Blizzard understands this, and hopefully the next patch will help.

Things like deepfreeze and frostbomb are bad for the game (and similar abilities). Positioning in the game has become far less important than it used to, so many classes have instant cc's/stuns and insane amount of gap closers, etc. I felt like before Cata, you had to actively watch your positioning and move with your team and coordinate much more than now. Now you can just blink deep someone and completely negate their positioning, charge ever few second, double deathgrip. Too many instants also, even the nerf to interrupts hasn't done a ton.

I feel like the game could be moving in the right direction, at least Blizzard has been trying to show they care somewhat, which is better than certain times over the last few years.

I feel like this comment singles out mages as the primary problem and I feel all classes have absurd Cds they are constantly spamming.  All you need to know about problems with MOP pvp can be found watching this video:

http://www.arenajunk...33930-hendie-6/

That's that new Hendie6 pvp vid.

I had to turn it off after 10-15 min.  The reality is, all classes, not just mages, have insanely strong short Cds that they can spam mindlessly without repercussions.  Watch the first matchup, god comp mirror, anytime someone Looks at the druid, he's displacer beast peace.  Even if he blew displacer for no reason and too early, he can just LOS hump and pillar hug for a few sec and it will be up again soon (30 sec CD).  That first matchup is just mindless cyclone/sheep/silence spamming all over the place until someone lines up spriest burst or frostbomb b/c other team lost focus.

It has become difficult to plan a CC chain with soo much CC flying around all over the place.   As a rdruid, I'm going to follow up this sheep or fear with a cyclone, NVM, just ate a blanket silence blood fear or whatever other shit is flying around.

The game right now just feels messy and disorganized.

#13 Justblaze

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

View PostRegent, on 21 November 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

I think the dispel change was bad. It was supposed to "add skill" to the game by making you choose when to dispel. How it turned out:

Partner gets a full 8 second instant fear, dispel.

Partner immediately gets an 8 second polymorph. No dispel, eats it all even though the healer is sitting there with no cc on him whatsoever. AKA the reason godcomp is god.

It also feels extremely dumb how easy it is to negate dots. Probably overpowerd, dispelling 6 dots in one global, and by the time they get dots rolling again you can dispel them off.

I also think that damage needs to be at a level where people can eventually die without all burst CDs being popped. Healers shouldn't have unlimited mana over the entire match, if two dps train a healer for more than a few seconds, the healer should start getting in trouble.  It is far too easy to survive people without CDS, and stacking burst CDs is far to good. I guess Blizzard understands this, and hopefully the next patch will help.

Things like deepfreeze and frostbomb are bad for the game (and similar abilities). Positioning in the game has become far less important than it used to, so many classes have instant cc's/stuns and insane amount of gap closers, etc. I felt like before Cata, you had to actively watch your positioning and move with your team and coordinate much more than now. Now you can just blink deep someone and completely negate their positioning, charge ever few second, double deathgrip. Too many instants also, even the nerf to interrupts hasn't done a ton.

I feel like the game could be moving in the right direction, at least Blizzard has been trying to show they care somewhat, which is better than certain times over the last few years.

Posted Image

#14 Regent

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 21 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

I feel like this comment singles out mages as the primary problem and I feel all classes have absurd Cds they are constantly spamming.  All you need to know about problems with MOP pvp can be found watching this video:


I definitely didn't mean to single out mages, just used that as it is the most obvious example of the problem. You are correct about things like bloodfear, I meant to imply that originally.

#15 Shrouds

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

Basically in WOTLK, they brought DKs which were too powerful of a class, and instead of nerfing them and balancing it a little better than BC; they just made everyone a god class every few months.
Wotlk did some good things, but when they had a chance to fix the problems from wotlk into cataclysm they did the exact opposite.
I don't think you could fix the game after cataclysm came out, like rogues having a heal is just stupid.
They would have to remove a lot of these generic abilities classes have. For example, paladins having rebuke? They're making all classes have a stun/interrupt/silence etc that's melee, which makes it generic and unless the classes are EXACTLY the same then obv there will be huge balance issues. You can't give everyone the same abilities and then try to make them unique.

#16 Shrouds

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

After watching a lot of pre-bc/bc/wotlk videos (and playing on pre-bc/bc servers) the thing that really bugs me is how it's not even fun to play anymore.
Even in WOTLK, every class had UNIQUE strengths/weakness and there were spells that could do a lot. You kind of found creative ways to use vanish, spell reflect, deep freeze, fear, etc for offensive reasons/defensive reasons/to reset/get control
Most importantly:
Positioning and Global cool down management really mattered.
Now everything is just instant and lining up cool downs

#17 Hyrmine

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

I remember dying 24/7 while leveling warrior in TBC. They were one of the most annoying classes to level with and now you can kill any mob with a few hits. They're not going back anyways dude. Stop playing WoW for a day and check other games out. Gaming in general is ez mode now since all companies cater for casuals these days.

#18 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

View Posthairpiece, on 21 November 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Deep freeze has been in the game since the beginning of wrath, the only thing bad about deep freeze IS frost bomb and other high burst damage abilities from other classes.  The fact that they added MORE instant cc to the game is not because of deep freeze, its because blizzard is stupid.. Deep freeze in itself is FAR from being "bad for the game"  seeing as its been a mage tool for years now.

I'm probably in the minority here but I always thought adding Deep Freeze was a bad design choice in the first place. For one it led to the post TBC metagame of a mage doing RIDICULOUS damage against targets that aren't in control of their character while otherwise doing moderate damage. This increases the frustration of playing against mages substantially, because you are getting fucked the hardest when you can't control your character.

DF also got the ball rolling on the absurd amount of instant ranged CC. Its cooldown has always been too short (or its duration too long), and the relatively high uptime of the DF stun (at that point in the game's CC metagame) caused every other class to want similar levels of control -- which has contributed WoW's current CC clusterfuck.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#19 Justblaze

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:17 PM

View PostShrouds, on 10 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

After watching a lot of pre-bc/bc/wotlk videos (and playing on pre-bc/bc servers) the thing that really bugs me is how it's not even fun to play anymore.
Even in WOTLK, every class had UNIQUE strengths/weakness and there were spells that could do a lot. You kind of found creative ways to use vanish, spell reflect, deep freeze, fear, etc for offensive reasons/defensive reasons/to reset/get control
Most importantly:
Positioning and Global cool down management really mattered.
Now everything is just instant and lining up cool downs

word to that

#20 Artunias

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostShrouds, on 10 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

After watching a lot of pre-bc/bc/wotlk videos (and playing on pre-bc/bc servers) the thing that really bugs me is how it's not even fun to play anymore.
Even in WOTLK, every class had UNIQUE strengths/weakness and there were spells that could do a lot. You kind of found creative ways to use vanish, spell reflect, deep freeze, fear, etc for offensive reasons/defensive reasons/to reset/get control
Most importantly:
Positioning and Global cool down management really mattered.
Now everything is just instant and lining up cool downs

Couldn't agree with this more. If they took a lot of the skill sets and redistributed them between classes, especially in taking interrupts away from like...fucking everyone lol. I think it would make it more viable to put casting back in the game, for damage and especially CC. And still leave interrupts on a 15 sec cd.

Edited by Artunias, 10 December 2012 - 09:11 PM.





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