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#41 stcolbert

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:18 AM

I just see no reasonable explanation or defense against only registered responsible citizens being able to get guns.  Why is this a bad thing?

View PostShipupi, on 21 November 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

ok found it

I just looked up murder rates quickly because Austria seems way to high and it is.  So I'm going to have to discredit your chart completely...sorry.

They have a murder rate of 0.6

United states has a murder rate of 4.2

This data was also from wiki and completely contradictory to what you posted.
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#42 Shipupi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

It might look different if I filter the "undeveloped" countries, and just leave the civilized ones
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#43 Bloodriot

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:32 AM

We can at least agree that Automatic Rifles should be illegal, yes? And that concealed carry should be extremely difficult to obtain.
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#44 Shipupi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

View Poststcolbert, on 21 November 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

I just see no reasonable explanation or defense against only registered responsible citizens being able to get guns.  Why is this a bad thing?



I just looked up murder rates quickly because Austria seems way to high and it is.  So I'm going to have to discredit your chart completely...sorry.

They have a murder rate of 0.6

United states has a murder rate of 4.2

This data was also from wiki and completely contradictory to what you posted.

Austria has almost 0 on my chart

These are intentional homicides, so maybe that's why some values are different...

Data points aren't very clear, maybe you confused Austria with another one
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#45 Shipupi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:44 AM

Ok found the excel
These are the points I plotted
First Column: Gun/100  Second Column: Intentional Homicides/100000
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#46 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:48 AM

View Poststcolbert, on 21 November 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Extreme to convey a point? Yes

Not equivalent? Sure it is.



I'm not sure how anyone could think that stricter gun laws wouldn't reduce SHOOTINGS.

You keep talking about shootings in a general sense and all I've ever referred to is extreme situations like this.  This fucking blows.  In extreme situations like this, stricter gun laws aren't really going to prevent anything.  Aurora, Colombine, etc.  The long, drawn out, premeditated murders.  Your shootings based on an emotional overreaction and heat of the moment type murder? Arguable, sure.  These?  These people are going to procure the weaponry necessary to carry it out.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#47 Bloodriot

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:50 AM

These situations happen significantly less in countries where there are strict gun laws. I mean, I can remember 2 shootings in American that made the news in the UK this year alone, I can't remember a single story about a shooting in the UK since 2010.
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#48 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:52 AM

What are these countries

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#49 Bloodriot

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:53 AM

Pretty much everywhere that isn't Somalia and the States.
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#50 Bloodriot

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10216955
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#51 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:03 AM

View PostBloodriot, on 21 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Pretty much everywhere that isn't Somalia and the States.

This certainly isn't the case.

http://en.wikipedia....school_shooting

http://en.wikipedia....school_shooting

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#52 Bloodriot

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:06 AM

I never said they didn't happen, I said they happen a lot less.
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#53 stcolbert

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:14 AM

View PostShipupi, on 21 November 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Austria has almost 0 on my chart

These are intentional homicides, so maybe that's why some values are different...

Data points aren't very clear, maybe you confused Austria with another one
Whops I did....south africa lol (that makes sense)

View PostSykeasaurus, on 21 November 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

You keep talking about shootings in a general sense and all I've ever referred to is extreme situations like this.  This fucking blows.  In extreme situations like this, stricter gun laws aren't really going to prevent anything.  Aurora, Colombine, etc.  The long, drawn out, premeditated murders.  Your shootings based on an emotional overreaction and heat of the moment type murder? Arguable, sure.  These?  These people are going to procure the weaponry necessary to carry it out.
It does fucking blow that you can't see the benefit of stricter gun laws in a nation that has some of the highest firearm-related death rate in the world.  Go back to the initial post of mine you quoted, do you disagree with the points I brought up there?

More checks and bounds means a higher rate of these people getting caught before proceeding with their plan or entirely being unable to procure a firearm (resorting to more archaic methods=less damaging). Not to mention that the damage associated with some of those passions crimes would be lowered as well.

Damage control.

You should need a reason for having a firearm not just "because its mah 'murrica right"
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#54 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:15 AM

Again, I'd imagine population of country matters in regards to these extreme circumstances.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#55 Bloodriot

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:16 AM

You can do it per 1000 people etc.
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#56 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:17 AM

Extreme incidents per 1000 or gun related deaths per 1000?

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#57 Reliuna

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:17 AM

View PostSykeasaurus, on 21 November 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

Again, I'd imagine population of country matters in regards to these extreme circumstances.

How many chinese school shootings are there?
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#58 Hobbeś

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

Shootings are more rare in countries with less guns. What's the point of stating this?

Look, all you have to do to convince these Americans that they need stricter gun laws is to post statistics from countries who have such laws. Show how crime rates and homicide rates dropped. Even better would be to take 2 or more developed countries in the same region. Show how the countries with the stricter laws and fewer guns have a lower crime/homicide rate.

Nothing left to discuss after that right?

#59 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

View Poststcolbert, on 21 November 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Whops I did....south africa lol (that makes sense)


It does fucking blow that you can't see the benefit of stricter gun laws in a nation that has some of the highest firearm-related death rate in the world.  Go back to the initial post of mine you quoted, do you disagree with the points I brought up there?

More checks and bounds means a higher rate of these people getting caught before proceeding with their plan or entirely being unable to procure a firearm (resorting to more archaic methods=less damaging). Not to mention that the damage associated with some of those passions crimes would be lowered as well.

Damage control.

You should need a reason for having a firearm not just "because its mah 'murrica right"

Sweet, you're back on firearm related death when I've never argued that general sense.  Posted Image

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#60 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

I give up, you guys keep citing general homicides and I've literally never argued that point at all.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day




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