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#21 flubbah

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:51 AM

exactly, completely agree with what Dakk is saying

#22 khuna

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:54 AM

Shamans are so squishy without that man, any shaman team will be a joke for rogue comps now
druid can skin, priest can ps, shaman will just trinket or die like paladins

i agree with what you say Zilea, i just don't think this is the right thing to nerf
If the damage actually get toned down like you say it might be ok then (actually not XDD) but i still think not being able to at least ground while blanketed or cse'd is killing the shaman gameplay and making life of mages / warlocks easier

when priest will get buffed a bit RMP is gonna win everytime they see a shaman on the top right of their screen,garrote kidney 123012 sc stuns/silence can't tremor/ground/etc gg even if dmg get toned down

Even at cata when the damage was fine imo, not being able to link while blanketed ( not even talking about the rest ) is completly retarded, i can't count the number of games i played with Flubbah and knew he was fine even if he was at 20% cause he was gonna get out of stuns and was dr'ed on it and could link after

Link is directly related to trinket, now shamans are just gonna die in stuns/silence without being able to use anything once they trinketed lol

#23 HorseHack

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:55 AM

Very much needed. - paladin pov.

#24 Zilea

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

View PostDakkrothy, on 15 November 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

I do agree that u should not be able to use totems if you're LOCKED on a cast, so you get punished & need to think twice before you cast.... However, stun followed by a blanket silence kills off any healer right now, if it wasnt for bubble - druid stealth thingy get away - pain suppresion... what is a shaman gonna have to counter that now? NOTHING except for trinket possibly. But you shouldnt have to pop every single cd just because you get stunned followed by a silence.


you guys keep sayin that its dumb that shamans are able to use stuff while silenced, that it dumbs the class down - Well, not being able to do ANYTHING instead sounds better then, or what?

every class can do something while silenced/stunned.

Locks can use their pet, mages can block, priests can disperse / pain sup do I need to say more?

Like Hoodrych already said, if damage is properly toned down, these changes are no brainers.

And are you seriously justifying these changes by arguing that "other classes have tools"? I die every game to mages, and I have to blow every cooldown every time i get deep+frost bombed. Damage needs to go down, everybody knows that. Assuming that happens, these changes must go through or shamans will be far too powerful

Everybody arguing against these changes has not played with anything but shaman healers, that much is obvious.

Play with a different healer and it will open your eyes that these other healers deal with this shit every day

Edited by Zilea, 15 November 2012 - 12:58 AM.


#25 Dakkrothy

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

i did suggest a couple of nerfs for shaman in a balance thread, meaning they should nerf purge as well as removal of totemic restoration.... Maybe a change of being locked on cast meaning ur not able to use anything while being locked on cast would be necessary as well but I will repeat myself and say that this is way over the top

#26 mackazar

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

FINALLY!!! DOWN WITH SHAMAN SCUM

#27 Dakkrothy

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:00 AM

View PostZilea, on 15 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Like Hoodrych already said, if damage is properly toned down, these changes are no brainers.

And are you seriously justifying these changes by arguing that "other classes have tools"? I die every game to mages, and I have to blow every cooldown every time i get deep+frost bombed. Damage needs to go down, everybody knows that. Assuming that happens, these changes must go through or shamans will be far too powerful


Ofc im justifying the fact that every (EVERY) other class has different tools to stay alive while being stunned/silenced.... Thats what EVERY team is striving against during an arena game - TO GET A CLEAN OPENER on a target when theyre not able to do ANYTHING and then blow them up.

examples
- force barkskin - switch off, kill on next switch

- force dispersion, bomb on him with cds after next switch

- force pain supp, on next stun hes dead


I can't believe a veteran player like yourself would even say this, holy shit im surprised


thats what this game is all about, especially now more than EVER its a cooldown based game

Edited by Dakkrothy, 15 November 2012 - 01:01 AM.


#28 Zilea

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:03 AM

View PostDakkrothy, on 15 November 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

Ofc im justifying the fact that every (EVERY) other class has different tools to stay alive while being stunned/silenced.... Thats what EVERY team is striving against during an arena game - TO GET A CLEAN OPENER on a target when theyre not able to do ANYTHING and then blow them up.

examples
- force barkskin - switch off, kill on next switch

- force dispersion, bomb on him with cds after next switch

- force pain supp, on next stun hes dead


I can't believe a veteran player like yourself would even say this, holy shit im surprised


thats what this game is all about, especially now more than EVER its a cooldown based game

The only thing that might be over the top about this change is not being able to spirit link when you get blanket locked. If you get full locked/pummeled, you don't deserve to use a single totem because you fucked up and you deserve to be heavily penalized, just like every other healer

Edited by Zilea, 15 November 2012 - 01:04 AM.


#29 Dakkrothy

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:05 AM

View PostZilea, on 15 November 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

The only thing that might be over the top about this change is not being able to spirit link when you get blanket locked. If you get full locked/pummeled, you don't deserve to use a single totem because you fucked up and you deserve to be heavily penalized, just like every other healer


I do agree on the fact that u should indeed be punished if you get locked on cast - agree completely

#30 flubbah

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:06 AM

Ye Zilea, I think thats what Dakk said

#31 khuna

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

ye well thats why the only reason the change is retarded, blankets ( GARROTE YO 10SC STUN WHILE JUMPING IN PLACE DOING NOTHING INTO BLANKET DEAD BITCh  )

#32 Necrolina

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

View PostDakkrothy, on 15 November 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

i did suggest a couple of nerfs for shaman in a balance thread, meaning they should nerf purge as well as removal of totemic restoration.... Maybe a change of being locked on cast meaning ur not able to use anything while being locked on cast would be necessary as well but I will repeat myself and say that this is way over the top

To be honest I would never have suggested a change like this, or even asked for it, but one thing kinda stands out to me.

From a paladin's pov what bugs my mind is that almost every support ability a shaman has is related to totems, be it capacitor, grounding, tremor etc (okey, grounding is not really a support ability, but you get the idea), as well as having a ranged interrupt on top of that. Now this means that not only can you deal with casters from range, not only can you cast most of these while silenced, but these are also nondispellable things.

I don't know, I might only hate this because of the fact that the first random mage that comes your way will shit all over your sacs / freedoms / bops, but regardless of that this is still something that shamans have ON TOP of being able to heal for significantly more than most other healers and do stuff while silenced.

Bottom line is, something had to be done and indirectly nerfing your ability to support your partners (and yourself) is not a bad thing - now if they could only give you some kind of a ~20% or so dmg reduction on a 45-60s cooldown (non magic, not a totem) I believe you'd be just fine.

Edited by Necrolina, 15 November 2012 - 01:11 AM.


#33 pripripriest

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostDakkrothy, on 15 November 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

However, stun followed by a blanket silence kills off any healer right now, if it wasnt for bubble - druid stealth thingy get away - pain suppresion...

you guys keep sayin that its dumb that shamans are able to use stuff while silenced, that it dumbs the class down - Well, not being able to do ANYTHING instead sounds better then, or what?


Nice joke mate. Priest surviving with PS up :D ahaha
About the no being able to do anything .. how about fuckin remove glyph of purge and put a new glyph that makes you use an absoprtion ability while stunned. There you are. Btw the ability of using totem while silenced doesn't only save you as shammy but your teammates too. Bit too much imho.

View Postkhuna, on 15 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Shamans are so squishy without that man, any shaman team will be a joke for rogue comps now
druid can skin, priest can ps, shaman will just trinket or die like paladins

How about Link totem stays usable even if silenced (not interrupted) ?
Btw imho the duration of so called "blanket silences" should be reduced a LOT. Like CS every 20 secs u can silence one target for 4 secs. It's kinda stupid.
About what you said about class mechanics... i don't completely agree there mate. I'm sorry but stuff like grounding totem was a core ability for shammies along with windshear to PREVENT magic stuff cause the class didn't have a defencive dispel. Say poly or fear or clone or w/e. Having 3 tools (grounding shear and dispel) is rather op imho,
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#34 Zeiyo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:20 AM

Oh nice, another ele nerf in the same patch ROFL. hope they dont reset the ladders in this patch so i can quit this game without a second thought.

Might aswell stand still like a tree stump and watch all these god class/specs cleave me down lmao.

Outside of rage though i agree with what other people are saying, you should still be able to drop totems while silenced as it requires no skill to blanket, lockouts only should prevent dropping totems. And if this goes live ele needs a defensive CD like every other class/spec in the game has had since the beginning of WoW.

Edited by Zeiyo, 15 November 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#35 khuna

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:21 AM

I don't think it is personnaly, and ye making link not usable while locked in school is normal but making totems not usable while blanketed is retarded

#36 mackazar

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:31 AM

You guys act as if shamans only live bc of the ability to use totems while silenced lmfao.

#37 Oldog

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

View PostDakkrothy, on 15 November 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

every class can do something while silenced

priests can pain sup

View Postkhuna, on 15 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

priest can ps


sure

Edited by Oldog, 15 November 2012 - 01:50 AM.


#38 khuna

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:35 AM

They do, against rogue / mage, rogue / sp, sp / mage, lock / mage, lock / rogue if buffs happen

#39 khuna

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:36 AM

View PostOldog, on 15 November 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

sure

I meant priest can PS while stunned, when shaman can't totem in a garrote kidney per example with that change

#40 ñåéé

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:44 AM

View PostDakkrothy, on 15 November 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

im not gonna sit here and defend shamans but that change officially made them BY FAR the easiest healer to kill for any rogue caster comp. You can BARELY survive the stun openers, now with a garrote + a dr'd garrote... how the hell are you gonna survive? Shamans needed fixes, but this is over the top imo. GL&HF shamans surviving anything.

lets not even get started at how much worse ele shammy survival will become either.


gawd, gotta play something silly like double healer warr in order to even survive... oh wait :X




Prediction - RMP & possibly RPS will dominate the brackets, this is a HUGE rogue buff add godmode comp to that also, almost dying in every single deep freeze switch, now with addition of a 5 sec spriest silence followed up LaaawwLLllll GL

now u feel how us pally's feel :< deep silence dead unless mage doesnt crit ;,<




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