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My thoughts on why the warrior skill cap needs to be increased

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#21 Veev

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:50 AM

My idea of increasing the skill cap is to bring spell reflect back to a 10 second cooldown, bring heroic leap to a 20 second cooldown as intercept was in WotLK and lower the damage a bit to compensate. Hitting from behind or from the front is not a good idea, given that it would be completely random, since as you already know, no one has a steady orientation in arena, especially melees; it's all about strafing around like a maniac.

Another point that would be great, is to grant intervene the ability to take spells, which I have already proposed multiple times over the years. Intervening to a target could also grant a buff where your next heroic leap would take the intervened target with you - that would also be quite fun.

I agree with this. After thinking about it some more, positional skills probably aren't the right answer. I was just trying to think of a simple way to make warriors be more aware while they're just spamming damage. I still really like the idea of the old unrelenting assault, but obviously you can't have too many abilities that depend on someone else casting or warriors would be useless when on melee. Does anyone have any other ideas on how to reward higher skill during the damage rotation?

Can you make a graph of mage skill

It would be fairly similar to shadow priests (since obviously these graphs aren't exactly scientific).

I honestly do not think the solution to Warriors having a lower skillcap than for example a Mage or Shadow Priest is to buff their damage, if behind a target. We do not need more damage to targets already dying in a stun. Warriors are already the best melee class out there at the moment, their utility is through the roof this season. There are plenty of BG's where Warriors coupled with a Mage or an Enhance Shaman are completly unstoppable, if played by the right players.

I do agree something could be done, but so far, this season along with season 9 is probably the best that Warriors ever had? And you are suggesting more damage, if the Warrior manages to spin his mouse 360, moving through his opponent, while hammering his Mortal Strike key.

Gag order is completly silly, there is no way Warriors should keep this. If you manage to get away from a Warrior in todays game, you should have the chance to get a cast off. Currently it is impossible to not only root and fear them, but if you find a window where they have a 5 second cooldown on Charge or Heroic Leap, you find yourself Reflected or silenced from Gag Order.

I remember what a good Warrior could do, and still can, it is all about positioning, being fast at peeling and putting out pressure when needed, while the gap has gotten a lot closer, I really hope you can propose some other changes, that are not an increase in damage as your solution.

These changes can be coupled with an overall damage decrease, where to maintain damage to the similar state of the game it requires higher awareness/skill. These changes are also already taking into consideration the future avatar/gag order nerfs, which as I said in the article, may really solidify wizard cleave's dominance over warriors.

Pretty much. Removing something as ridiculous as Gag Order is going to make Wizards insane. What does that say? That Warriors need to make a Wizard control their character 20% of the game, just to have a chance? Warriors have utility. It's not Warriors that need fixing, it's Wizards.

Good point. :P It is depressing when I can lock out a mage for 80% of the game (overpowered), then watch my partner die while I sit in one cyclone (also overpowered).
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#22 Wallirik

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:32 AM

lol unrelenting assault. please remove warriors from the game

sidenote: agree with most of what you say, but above ability traumatized me. good blog

Edited by Wallirik, 13 November 2012 - 04:34 AM.

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#23 Tsx

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

My thoughts on the gag order glyph

Keep both silences and just make pummel a 30 second cd or something

This glyph basically turns it into a cs....and this was by FAR the best way for me to stop casters from just blowing up my healer

15 seconds is op I admit and yeah we have shock wave but I really hope with mage nerfs and whatnot that I do not have to just watch my partners die in a 3 second cc (like s11)

tell me 1 reason u should have a silence , just 1.U have insane utility , u can counter casters even , frost mages , u can get off the nova by using intervene , u have 2 charges , leap , reflect , safeguard , yet u still want silence, what a mop war u are.
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#24 Braindance

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

tell me 1 reason u should have a silence , just 1.U have insane utility , u can counter casters even , frost mages , u can get off the nova by using intervene , u have 2 charges , leap , reflect , safeguard , yet u still want silence, what a mop war u are.

Your avatar is a good gauge of your IQ
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#25 Covlol

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:31 PM

Y does everyone assume that double time is the ability of choice atm?
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#26 Yotaa

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:43 PM

disc priest checking in, still playing the game sadly =(
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#27 Draedx

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

What should be done is to lower the skill cap of casters.

Lets ask some real questions;
Why are offensive dispels, or at the very least spellsteal, not on a CD?
Why are hybrid classes healing for so much?
How does aura of enfeeblement exist?
How come when you interrupt a shaman he can drop his defensive totems?
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#28 averagepriestz

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:13 PM

It's nonesense to say that other classes should have their skill cap lowered. Is that the game you want to play? Then you are just fine with playing it as it is, pressing 2 buttons and winning.

Wizards needs less CC and and burst perhaps, but not lower skill cap. HIgher skill cap for any game, can do nothing but make room for much needed improvements and more fun gameplay.

disc priest checking in, still playing the game sadly =(

Please, it is the first months of the first season where Priests have not been a viable choice, you make it sound like this is the first time it has happened to any class.

Resto druids last expansion, anyone?

Edited by averagepriestz, 13 November 2012 - 08:16 PM.

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:15 PM

Great post Veev :P
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#30 Krystof1

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:23 PM


As far as balancing wizards and melee I think there are a few obvious changes that need to be made.

The reason why most wizards pull ahead of melee at higher end arena is that better players are able to balance control with damage.

The problem at the moment with most wizard classes is that they have TOO much damage while having TOO much control. The two comps where this is an issue is MLS and Shatterplay (druid/paladin variants aswell - though, as an aside, I think shamans are the superior healers for these setups).

Frost Bomb damage is way higher than it should be - the reason being that Blizzard wants to break conventional PvE paradigms and make Frost into a PvE viable spec. I don't think this can be argued against. The problem with Frost Bomb is very similar to the problem with Lance/Frostbolt damage last expansion. Without frost bomb, mage damage is too low; with frost bomb, mage damage is too high. Casting frostbolts isn't rewarding anymore. A mage can do well by casting nothing but frost bomb and lances. This is something to be looked at.

Warlock damage during Demo form is far too strong. Chaos Wave splash damage is insane. There should not be an ability that can drop an entire team to 40-60% at the same time.

The mage 4 piece bonus is also something I do not think should be in game. It seems to have gone under the radar but it is far too strong for how rewarding blanket CS is with current game balance. Even though 4 seconds doesn't seem like much, it does have an impact on the strength of mage comps.

Blood Fear should not be in game, period. With an 8 second duration on a 10 second cooldown at RANGE, this ability is far too strong. It is expecting too much out of healers to maintain perfect positioning (ie. being able to avoid an instant ranged fear) vs a Warlock team.

I am somewhat indifferent about Psyfiend, though as a Druid it is fairly easy to avoid being feared. However, I should attest that it is too powerful of an ability for establishing desirable positioning vs healers. A shadow priests ideal positioning should be between the enemy healer and the enemy DPS (if any shadow priests are out there to correct this, please do). Psyfiend, on top of AoE fear, gives Shadow Priests a tremendous advantage in establishing this desirable positioning.

Rogues are incredibly outdated. Vanish cooldown is too long with respect to how high damage is at the moment.
All other classes seemed to gain additional abilities that were exlusive to other specs (eliminating choice between specs - ie. BM hunters having readiness) while rogues have to choose Step/Prep, Cheat Death/Feint.

Skull Banner is far too strong for WMS/WMD/WMP. It makes mage damage much higher than acceptable. Warrior/Mage comps benefit from cooldown stacking.

Typhoon cooldown should be doubled for resto/feral druids.

Edited by Krystof1, 13 November 2012 - 08:27 PM.

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#31 Snackumz

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

in regards to wizards being nerfed, demo locks need to just be destroyed because it is a stupid playstyle, even with warriors being able to silence and stun etc, demo locks are still fucking retarded. I really just want to be able to play affliction again as it is the only spec that atleast does consistent damage, rather than retarded burst playstyle that demo locks have now. not to mention the stupid fucking aura of enfeeblement with the 20% physical dmg reduction and 50% cast speed reduction (lol).

tl;dr had little to do with warriors, but im mad that demo is the best spec
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#32 Powerslave

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

It is also very true that Warriors are extremely easy to play at the moment. "Bring back the S8 Warrior playstyle" (minus Shadowmourne, of course), is something I'll always say.

I never thought i'd look back and say "wow, i wish this was like wrath!"
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#33 Babypuke

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:13 AM

Fairly solid post, I've been saying the same thing for a long time. Warrior skillcap is definitely higher now than at any point in Cata... but we're a long ways from the WOTLK days which I would like to see return in some aspects.

Rage management was a more boring form of skill, that was just busy work and I'm glad that our utility skills no longer rely on rage income, only damage. But shield play in general (slam dispelling, blocking so your healer can drink + positioning for big sweeping strikes revenge hits etc.) combined with interesting talents like Unrelenting Assault where there is a decision to be made by the warrior involving a little patience would be a welcome return.

No heroic throw gag is going to be fucking annoying... we finally get a solid CC that isn't just a stun and they want to take it away.

Edited by Babypuke, 14 November 2012 - 08:16 AM.

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#34 droolingmoron

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:44 PM

Fairly solid post, I've been saying the same thing for a long time. Warrior skillcap is definitely higher now than at any point in Cata... but we're a long ways from the WOTLK days which I would like to see return in some aspects.

actually warriors were fun in cataclysm beta (basically like wotlk but with 2 sec heroic leap stun, 10sec spellreflect, intercept, stancedance etc.-higher skillcap) they just would've had to nerf reck/cs and it would've been the most fun expansion from a warrior pov. you know what happened though, that's why i don't have hope for those of you that are still playing this game.
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