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#1 Tosan

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:03 AM

http://us.battle.net...302012?page=1#0

Please support this thread if you agree with any or all of these changes, feel free to add constructive shizzle if you wish.

#2 Reedzlol

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

u look like a bird

#3 Ragerlis

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

The stacks for instant aimed, 50% chance per steady is just a joke if compared with any other class procs.


Edit: lowering the cast for steadies(marks only)

The skill itself dont do real damage, and marks dont have good ways to retain or gain focus, and its a core skill for instant aimeds and keeping the haste buff up, can be huge for the overall gameplay.

Readiness Marks only, or at least trueshot aura. You just gain nothing for playing marks, playing bm or survival is like playing marks with 3 or 4 more skills.

Edited by Ragerlis, 10 November 2012 - 09:49 AM.


#4 Tosan

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:31 AM

View PostRagerlis, on 10 November 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

The stacks for instant aimed, 50% chance per steady is just a joke if compared with any other class procs.

I agree, maybe add that to the thread, my post is huge enough as it is.

I don't really have a solution unless they want to make it 100% chance @ 5 stacks or something.

#5 Shadowtiger

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:12 AM

View PostRagerlis, on 10 November 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

The stacks for instant aimed, 50% chance per steady is just a joke if compared with any other class procs.


Edit: lowering the cast for steadies(marks only)

The skill itself dont do real damage, and marks dont have good ways to retain or gain focus, and its a core skill for instant aimeds and keeping the haste buff up, can be huge for the overall gameplay.

Readiness Marks only, or at least trueshot aura. You just gain nothing for playing marks, playing bm or survival is like playing marks with 3 or 4 more skills.

I honestly think this is the biggest issue by far, it feels like i freed up 4 keybinds just from swapping from BM to marksman (4 big ones).

You used to get TSaura, readiness, scattershot, silence shot, chimera shot shot disarm.
What you get now? Chimera shot that is worse than explo shot and kill command. Aimed shot, only usefull with procs up (still the dmg is pathetic).

And Lynx Rush/Blink strike as MM just feels so wrong to take, so the last option is Murder of crows (also known as useless piece of crap, 2k dmg/tick for 60 focus, it is so fucking shit it amazes me it's even in the game)

And what to BMs get then, Intimidation, Beastial Wrath, Kill Command, A godlike talent tier (Lynx, blink). The last tier arguably isn't that good for BM, but it's actually horrible for every single spec since the spells are so bugged.

I feel like power shot is the one spell that could make MM viable, but it randomly evaporates mid air. And voilá, you just used a 1 min cooldown for fuck all. (And it still does too little dmg, and the dmg is about the same in all specs, so MM still didn't get anything)

#6 Jokerplex

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:32 AM

Powershot bug is a joke

glaive toss obviously doesn't scale well

Entrapment should be baseline, theres no way to kite warriors effectively in arenas now. (i.e not using deterrence when you have nothing else to get away with)

Chimera shot needs a buff, Maybe base damage increase but crit lowered? idk.
Widow venom into chimera shot is good.

Aimed shot just sucks, really.. Proc should be 100%crit chance.

#7 Hiddenstalke

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

I've been suggesting similar changes on EU forums several times aswell.Power shot bugged have been reported many times but ofc they haven't fixed it yet.
For trap launcer .... well to be fair i got quite used to it.You keep it on all time and when you go to place it you just toggle it off quite easily.If i do that i mostly just click the spell once to remove buff and once i place trap i click it again so i have launcer on again at all time. Its not on other abilities gcd so its quite good.
For chimera shot dmg/healing i kinda agree about the healing - theres glyph for it but who would ever use it lol - better just to add it to chimera indeed.The suggested damage buff is quite good aswell.But i also would love a buff to Steady shot - it deals 50% of weapon + 1k additional. They either have to make it more like 60-70% or increase additional with 1-4k more.
I have suggested those readiness/stampede changes aswell alot.MM basicly gets nothing additional (BM get BW and surv entrapment).Thats why i really wanted 3min on readiness aswell.For stampede i suggested pets do deal even maybe bit less damage but reduce its cd down to 2-3min.
I strongly agree about pet survivability - right now pets are quite squishy for all classes but mages can summon a new one in like 1-2 sec cast every 1 min and locks can keep reviving them instantly without any problems(since they changed shard mechanics + i think there was one more ability allowing them to insta ress).And since most of us play with cunning(for sac) we don't have the instant ress so we have to make 5 sec cast to revive our pet. I know it's huge buff(since it used to be 10 or so) but why not make it like 2-3 sec cast or just buff their survivabilty + mend pet(it heals for nothing indeed)
The widow venom have been suggested many times arouind forums - mostly want it to only survival(since its trap/poison spec) other to MM (as it used to be) rest just to something like arcane shot on baseline.I'm not sure how it would be best used but i guess one of best solutions is remove widow venom off gcd, make it like 5 focus cost so you can just macro it to like kill shot(since you don't use it that often and won't dump focus for no reason) or however you want it - just won't be needed to sacrifice a global for it.
Also yeah i would love some survivabilty during stuns for MM/survival if possible(something like the RoS change).
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#8 Hiddenstalke

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

Oh forgot to add - why not make powershot/glaive toss aoe effect not hitting cc-ed targets so you don't have to worry that much about it..
Also about the steady shot stacks for aimed - make it 4 imo.5 is bit too much for it aswell.But if they make it 5 atleast grant 100% crit chance.Or maybe one of best ways is every stack to reduce cast time by 20%(if 5) and 25%(if 4) so you can actually just go for the cast eariler(pretty much as enha shamans maelstorm thingie)

Last suggestion is to make those traps more likely to trigger.It's often enemy walking pass traps and they just don't trigger at all.Best way is to make trigger effect faster and have slightly bigger range.It will be lot harder to eat traps but right now hunters have pretty much the less replyable cc (other classes can pretty much spam cc you and your healer can dispel you only once).
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#9 idevpro

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

I Agree to most of the things, i even have posted most of hunters bugs on EU forums.

MM survivability is shit, i think MM should be able to detterence while stunned. or Any other thing that buff their survivability.

Also tbh i don't see a reason to have stampede as MM/Survivablity, why just don't add another 87 spell for those two trees, stampede is shit now and its easily controllable (jk just tank 1k claw crt).

Agree about aimded shot stacks, Less rng = more skillful play, why 50% chance and 3 stacks? why not 100% chance and 4-5 stacks? and make aimed shot does 10-20% more dmg when its instant. or maybe that would be much.

75 talents should be COMPLETELY revamped.

PS should be 2-2.5 sec cast.

Glaive Toss scale is aweful ( ofc cus its aoe spell thats why its dmg is crap, its like mage doing arcane explosion in pvp ).

Readiness less cd idd. 3 min.

Survival should be changed in many things: no cd share between black arrow/exp trap, more useful traps and more buffed, buff ES dmg, More focus regen ( 3 focus regen from serpent sting is awful ).

I hope ANY of these things happen in 5.1
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#10 schnoobins

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:42 PM

Definitely some good changes. I didn't like the new trap launcher at first but I found a way to make it work like the old trap launcher. Just add /cancelaura Trap Launcher to an offensive ability (Chimera Shot, Kill Command, anything that you'll use after trapping). Enable it every time you want to launch a trap and disable it by attacking.

#11 Tosan

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostPejsmejker, on 10 November 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Definitely some good changes. I didn't like the new trap launcher at first but I found a way to make it work like the old trap launcher. Just add /cancelaura Trap Launcher to an offensive ability (Chimera Shot, Kill Command, anything that you'll use after trapping). Enable it every time you want to launch a trap and disable it by attacking.

Problem with this method is, I often want to use 2 traps back to back (scatter->freezing trap->explosive trap, or Explosive->Scatter->Freeze, etc).  I often won't get an attack button pushed between so it'd still take mental focus to accomplish this :(

WUT DO

#12 bruceweiner

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:27 PM

posted in tosan's thread regarding piercing shots bleed debuff and the original pet intervene

if you liked what I said please upvote it... I'd love to have the original intervene again.

the post:

Here's another thing to consider: In 1v1's, say duels or if an arena match comes to a 1v1 situation, piercing shots makes 3 of our most important abilities as marks cause our crits to give the enemy a bleed debuff. Without glyph of scattering, this issue alone can severely damage a hunter's soloing capability... With things like glyph of explosive trap, disengage (on dalaran), mirrored blades (in rare occasions), master's call etc, this becomes a problem as those are often far more crucial given the current state of marks hunters.

I'd suggest, at the very LEAST, looking at combining glyph of scattering with glyph of scatter shot. This would make the glyph a bit more appealing although it still would not be used very often at all. The point is, the fact that piercing shots is forced upon a hunter who chooses marks spec can be severely crippling.

Edit: Suggestion - make scatter shot remove bleeds? I'm open to other suggestions, would be nice seeing other hunters' input.

What I'd really love to see the most though is bringing the original pet intervene back to tenacity pets. This was when a pet's intervene worked just like that of a warrior's. I thought it substantially increased the hunter skill cap as far as a single ability goes, and it really made hunter soloing in PvP so much more satisfying.

The way I see it, bringing the original pet intervene back would barely buff hunters at all. It can be extremely difficult to time and it's almost impractical to use a pet specifically for intervene in any arena match.

You guys removed it after raiders realized it could help with certain boss mechanics. Is it possible to make pet intervene do one thing (like your 30% dot damage reduction) in PvE? In other words, if the intervened target took a physical attack from a monster as opposed to a player, it would proc a 30% DoT damage reduction buff. However, if the intervened target took a physical attack from an actual player, that attack would transfer to the pet.

I'm just trying to think of how this would work in terms of coding it.

It's a shame that this ability had to be changed in Cata and ultimately removed.

#13 GrieverZ

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

Would like to see MM's mastery reworked too. Maybe to something like Arp? Getting 3 second cast aimed shots off should be rewarding.

#14 Shadowtiger

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:28 PM

or make MM mastery critical strike dmg? and give some crit boost to one of the abilities, aimed shot maybe?

#15 Smiercx

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:08 PM

1. 75 lvl tier redesigned ; 87 lvl ability redesigned
2. MM mastery redesigned - getting crit / dmg increased after every steady / cobra shot or something
3. Pet survivability - make it more like mage or warlocks' pets, since hunters rely on their pets more than any other class ( especially locks as they dont even need to have their pets out to posses their exclusive abilities etc )
4. Damage on chimera / aimed / explosive increased, black arrow cd removed + make it undispelable
5. Remove focus / global from MS or simply add the effect to the specialization unique abilities ( kill command / chimera / explosive )

#16 Feorblade

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:54 AM

I submitted a ticket for shits about powershot and glaive toss failing to do damage on moving targets and the GM told me "yeah, it's working as intended." On a side note, Aimed Shot has kind of lost it's role as a casted ability with the introduction of Power Shot since it's basically an overglorified aimed shot on a 1 minute cooldown, though I've never thought casted Aimed Shots were all that hard to get off in arena.  I don't think anyone disagrees that the fundamental problem with MM right now is damage output, but I really do feel like that can easily be fixed with buffs to Aimed and Chimera shot. Entrapment baseline is something I've been advocating for with some people who have a lot more pull than me with blizzard and directly talk to the devs because a) I miss entrapment traps and B) kiting melee without a root is kind of stupid. I think Blink Strike could be a good talent for MM, currently my Blink Strikes are hitting for 30k as MM / SV (harder than Aimed Shot or Chimera). I think the talent could work if they took it off global, and maybe reduced the damage a bit, it would basically be MOP's version of Shadow Bite I guess, just on a much longer CD.

Touching on on the self heal for Chimera Shot, this is kind of the issue that Hunters had with dodge being so low at the start of Caa, which was I had less dodge on my hunter than priests because blizzard nerfed the agi -> dodge #'s back in wrath of the lich king with the introduction of Aspect of the Dragonhawk, and when Dragonhawk was removed from the game, it left us with no dodge. Basically, back in MOP beta, when Exhileration was on disengage, and Chimera Shot heal was a little higher, hunters were basically unkillable with the amount of self-healing they had. So blizzard nerfed Chimera Shot heal, the glyph, and changed Exhileration all together. This however, fucked us over because it was basically over-nerfed. I never really liked Chimera Self Heal as a mechanic, but I don't really have an alternative to it, so I guess just rebuff it to what it was, or slightly better.

MY biggest Issue with MOP thusfar is whatever the hell happened to traps between Cataclysm and MOP. There are vods on my stream where I trap someone while they are CC'd, and it is sitting under them for a couple of seconds, they get out of the CC and just walk out like it was never there. On top of this, I've had several games where melee run over my traps over and over and fail to get trapped. I've actually brought this issue up to blizzard, and also to people who can directly talk to the devs and they said, "they would look into it" and when I try and touch back and see what's the matter, I just get the run around. I don't like the fact that I'm punished just because Blizzard is incapable of fixing something like this, when I've brought it to their attention. Missing traps, or traps being eaten because of long arm times, or failure to arm is absurd

#17 Shadowtiger

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:12 AM

View PostFeorblade, on 12 November 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:



MY biggest Issue with MOP thusfar is whatever the hell happened to traps between Cataclysm and MOP. There are vods on my stream where I trap someone while they are CC'd, and it is sitting under them for a couple of seconds, they get out of the CC and just walk out like it was never there. On top of this, I've had several games where melee run over my traps over and over and fail to get trapped. I've actually brought this issue up to blizzard, and also to people who can directly talk to the devs and they said, "they would look into it" and when I try and touch back and see what's the matter, I just get the run around. I don't like the fact that I'm punished just because Blizzard is incapable of fixing something like this, when I've brought it to their attention. Missing traps, or traps being eaten because of long arm times, or failure to arm is absurd

Yea something extremely wierd happend to traps somewhere between S9 and MoP (had a break that long). Looks like it happend between Cata and MoP tho, by reading countless replys and threads about the issue.

It is extremely annoying.

#18 Braindeadly

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:13 AM

good suggestions.. i added some to the thread
trap launcher needs to light up ur traps when its triggered or smthing.. hate having to scan my buffs constantly

i think zumio made a video showing what needs to be changed too, aimed shot procs need to be more reliable but blizzards design philosophy is that rng is fun i think

powershot is either too long cast time or too long cooldown.. good players undoubtedly do anything and everything in their power to prevent it going off

pet abilitys cooldowns such as lullaby should be lowered to bridge the gap from the need to dismiss pet /get new one

#19 Jokerplex

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:19 PM

T2 mm damage is kinda mehHhhhhhH

really no damage at all without popping all cds/crits.

Chimera shot doesnt hit hard enough for it being 10 seconds and our main damaging spell..

#20 Shadowtiger

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:30 PM

View PostJokerplex, on 12 November 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

T2 mm damage is kinda mehHhhhhhH

really no damage at all without popping all cds/crits.

Chimera shot doesnt hit hard enough for it being 10 seconds and our main damaging spell..

It's like killcommand but less crit chance since pets have way more (+ KC probably do more in BW atleast)




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