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#1 pripripriest

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

I'm one of those fools that still q arenas as Disc. The reason is simple: shadow is boring and i'm a healer kinda player. I truly can't be bothered playin shadow after so many seasons as disc.
This said i was tryin to take note of any possible thing that might be changed to make disc priest a solid class once again. I devided my ideas in different categories. Here is what i think, hopin you find it intersting and can give your contribution for it:


MANA ISSUES:

After the rapture hot fix and with the upcoming buff on mindbender (1.5 up from 1.3) i honestly don't have any problem managing my mana in arena matches. Notice i stack spirit on blue slot, have spirit/resi on yellow, int/pvp power on red and using int+2% mana as meta. So far i got 9k spirit (i'm BS and JC) plus the proc from the darkmoon trinket (aka 3k spirit with 45 icd). Using mind bender pretty much on cd unless settin up a kill, makes me perfectly fine on mana. Not even using hymn anymore. The problem with this is gear setup is you get really lower pvp power: i'm runnin with current 19% pvp power (yet to get pvp t1). Should be able to drop some spirit gems as soon as gear lvl will be higher and focus bit more on pvp power. I honestly don't think mana on priest needs to be buffed, it's other healers regen that needs to be nerfed (see resto druids or shammies).
Another thing to do should be the revert of inner focus: buff crit and put it back to mana free cost of next spell casted. Also lowering the cd of P.I. would be a good thing, say 1.5 min. but this last one can be discussed better.

SURVIVABILITY AND CC

Here is the worst part. Being a cloth user with very few cds is disgusting: atm pretty much any melee on cds can destroy you, like.. litteraly blow you up. Focused will is a good buff but it won't be enough to grant priests a way out. What can be done ?

1) PoM needs a consistant buff: let's face it, every class but priest got really good instant heals. Priest got nothing. With cds, shammy pala or druid can pick up a target from 10% hp up to full. priest still needs to put off at least 2 casts. This has to be changed. Not askin for a priest version of NS but they should at least considering buffing PoM and renew. Renew ticks for 6k in arena with 17k spell power. that's ridicolous : it's 2x what it did in cata but hp pools are about the double. Almost useless.
2) The change of glyph system should help on this. Having desperation, inner focus and sw:d all base line for disc (for shadow the glyph of sw:d does make sense) would be just fair and won't affect pve at all since those are not chosen for pve anyway. Think of Shammies having aura mastery (lol) or druid able to cast barkskin under ANY condition or iron bark on a lol30 secs cd (if i'm not mistaken). This would allow the disc priest to choose stuff like Glyph of PW:S (used to a must in cata) for extra instant heals. Just fix it so that it doesn't convert absorption but ADD heals to the normal effect.
3) I don't think set bonus needs to change. you have fade with phantas if you wanna run free and tbh the set bonus atm is rather strong.
4) PW:S needs to be undispellable and to balance that u can nerf strenght of soul to 1 sec down from 2. either that or reove glyph of purge. having a retard chasing you spammin purge while warrior is litterally but rapin you ain't fun nor skillful. Either this or make Spirit shell undispellable.
5) Reduce the cd of PS and PW:B to 2 mins
6) You could make Void Tendrils a base line ability with a longer cd. After all all items have some kinda snare/root. Keep in mind priest also doesn't have interrupts what so ever, this would be a good compensation considering we even lost MC and MB.
7)Psyfiend. Increase it's cd to 1 min up from 45 secs, but make it horrify ppl (still dispellable ofc) for half the time. So instead of 8-4-2 make it 4-2-1 but with no dr with psychic scream. Even with a glyph.
8) Divine Aegis : needs to be changed entirely. Fuck the buff to 50% of crit heals: if anything this will be either purged or will just get games down to rng. Now, considering we run usually with somewhat like 6-7% crit, i'd say it's pretty ridicolous. Just make it create an absorbtion of a certain lower ammount (say 20%) ) and work on everyheal. This way you don't even need to buff other heals which with 4 set bonus are quite fine if you ask me. Maybe just buff penance a little bit
9) throwin it out there: how about bringing back divine hymn ? it was honestly a great spell. My dream is to have the wotlk prechange version of it.. the one that other than improuving heals on targets was stunnin enemies. Loved it.


DMG OUTPUT

Priest has always been chosen for its dps output. Old wotlk rmp was considered to be a 3dps comp. Now, our dmg atm is fuckin terrible and I guess it's because of attonement and how it affects pve. No need to change it all around tho so u can fix this without rapin pve. How ? simple: if you fix main glyph slots (as i said on survivability part) you have free spots in which you can take glyph of holy fire and glyph of smite. They significantly increase dmg output and game would stay the same. Nobody takes desperation innerfocus or sw:d for pve anyway.

DISPELLS

Once upon a time priest was the best dispeller in game. It could dispell twice off/def. Slowly dispel magic has become everyone's ability with disturbing exceptions like shammies being able to heal while dispel, dispel all curse and magic + 2x dispel offencively while glyphin for it. This has to be changed. Druid and Shammy have a great plus cause being able to dispell curses. How do we give priest something that makes it special without destroyin pve ? Ideas:

1) As Disc, your Purify (def dispel) cd is reduced to 5 secs.
2) As Disc, your MD cd is redused to 8 secs down from 13. Keep in mind before cryin that MD has an insane mana cost (40k) so you can't really spam it. Glyph for faster cast will still be needed but under the condition that the 3 we mentioned already will become base lines for disc.

a good alternative for the point 1 would be having Purify on 2 stacks so that you need to cast it twice before it triggers the cd. Pretty much like warrior charge or freedom talented or Roll from monks. So basically u can stack 2 x dispel and use em in a row. Just an idea, feel free to like it or dislike it.


With this changes priest will make a real come back on the ladders and, overall, on game since nobody is actually playin it apart from some insane multirank1 makin rmp still work. Any suggestion/idea/positive criticism is very welcome.

peace
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#2 originn

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:28 PM

I really hope they take some of ur suggestions into consideration the current state of disc priests is just as bad as rogues but who am i kidding this is blizzard we are talking about =/

#3 pripripriest

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

View PostGabbit, on 06 November 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Ohh god


wow .. very useful post there majt! Had little time in between q while facerollin some cleave?

View Postkannetixx, on 06 November 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

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but no seriously have you tried to open up a thread on priest forums as well? i know GC and company read these forums but i figure the more you spread it around the better your chance of someone getting a look at it friend


*** by priest forums i meant wow forums

Funny how you don't have time to read that but you found time to find a picture and to post an answer :P however this post is for priests and it's on priests forum, didn't mean t annoy anyone.
On a serious note: yes, i'll try to post it on wow forums as well and see how it goes

View Postoriginn, on 06 November 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

I really hope they take some of ur suggestions into consideration the current state of disc priests is just as bad as rogues but who am i kidding this is blizzard we are talking about =/

I had some general idea about changes in pvp (always concering how they might affect pve) but since i'm not that experienced with other classes, i'll stick with what i know the best. I know your pain mate, i play 2s with a rogue. Sometimes is not even fun to get farmed by random 1600 rated champs cause you get globaled in a shockwave.



edit: it's on wow offical forum now --> http://eu.battle.net...ic/5848115944#1

Edited by pripripriest, 06 November 2012 - 08:46 PM.

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#4 Gekz

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:34 PM

Being able to dispel twice before triggering the CD would be amazing.

#5 Djandawg

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:32 AM

They should revert the entire dispel system change. Every caster has multiple forms of aoe cc and being unable to dispel one partner is just dumb. This benefits other healers because they all have freedom, so disc priest not only lost the ability to double dispel but is the only class who can't effectively remove snares/roots when dispel is on cd or is scared to remove those because of a follow up cc.

Dispels should have no cooldowns, all healers except disc should dispel one magic debuff at once.
I just  can't understand, how come no one has ever objected to this?

#6 Regent

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

The dispel change was really bad, it was supposed to make you think about when to dispel, but it just adds another layer of imbalance to the game. Do you dispel the frost bomb? Yes. Your partner will now sit in 8 seconds of CC. Its a change that makes it easier for dps to spam disables, and is just frustrating for healers.

#7 Rageius

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:44 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 07 November 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

They should revert the entire dispel system change. Every caster has multiple forms of aoe cc and being unable to dispel one partner is just dumb. This benefits other healers because they all have freedom, so disc priest not only lost the ability to double dispel but is the only class who can't effectively remove snares/roots when dispel is on cd or is scared to remove those because of a follow up cc.

Dispels should have no cooldowns, all healers except disc should dispel one magic debuff at once.
I just  can't understand, how come no one has ever objected to this?

yeah no shit, i pretty much quit the game and ebayed when i heard about the future cata dispel change. i figured if that change were to go through then disc would be rebuilt and i would have to learn a whole new playstyle. "nah fuck that stupid, i'm done with wow anyways" i thought to myself.

then i come back a week before mop is released and learn that disc has pretty much the same style with more buttons, just every healer was given a better version of what we have aside from mass dispel and the damage we can do (btw, which is technically none anymore - so scratch that).

why even play this spec? it was fun before to find the fine line between being offensive and defensive, but for this xpac unless they do some major changes (they won't because they only do revamps when a new xpac comes out) we're just going to be healbots. IMO we're going to be like holy paladins in late BC at best, similar in both playstyle and viability.

so yeah, pretty much regret i came back to this game. huge mistake

#8 Asmodean

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostGabbit, on 06 November 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Ohh god

These are the moments where I wish there was a downrep button on this forum ...
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#9 Saru93

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

link this thread to ghostcrawler twitter aswell. I'd do it but I dont have twitter, thank yawww

#10 pripripriest

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 07 November 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

They should revert the entire dispel system change. Every caster has multiple forms of aoe cc and being unable to dispel one partner is just dumb. This benefits other healers because they all have freedom, so disc priest not only lost the ability to double dispel but is the only class who can't effectively remove snares/roots when dispel is on cd or is scared to remove those because of a follow up cc.

Dispels should have no cooldowns, all healers except disc should dispel one magic debuff at once.
I just  can't understand, how come no one has ever objected to this?

i think the idea of removin 1 dispel at time (or 2 for disc) was intended to prevent random rng shit like : castin dispel to remove fear jk dispelled ua instad. or for shammy/druid cast dispell to remove hex jk got ua too.

the result is beyond terrible... the dispel being on cd is fuckin stupid. dispel frost bomb to see your partner sittin in full poly or full deeps and gettin globaled. Or dispell hoj to see your partner full rooted. Dunno, this feel pointless. It's even not about a smart use of dispel.. it's totaly unavoidable. Pretty much like a warrior swappin on u with stacks and cds up :\
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Hàppypiè©

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The future... seems to me no unified dream but a mince pie, long in the baking, never quite done."
E. Young

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#11 Djandawg

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

I think we need a poll about reverting the dispel system change on the general section and link it to ghostcrawler
Someone do it please, I don't know how :P

#12 Hiddenstalke

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:05 PM

I really hate the dispel mechanic right now - it makes some comps too godmode just becouse they can spam cc chain you forever(best of all most of them are even aoe effects).x2 defensive dispel was best thing priest had last expansions pretty much - now they completely ruined it. i have no idea how blizzard even came up with this idea rly.
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#13 pripripriest

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

best part is gladius trackin dispels ... lol
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Hàppypiè©

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The future... seems to me no unified dream but a mince pie, long in the baking, never quite done."
E. Young

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#14 Sweatyfingrs

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:21 PM

View PostGekz, on 06 November 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Being able to dispel twice before triggering the CD would be amazing.

I actually wouldn't be against all dispels working in this manner.  Just not sure how much a mechanic like that would make playing specs like affliction or even elemental with a cooldown on your only dot hell to play
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#15 Adelise

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:15 PM

You have some very valid points, I dislike the way you present some of the solutions however
Other healer classes should be toned down, we should not be brought on an equal level

Lolflay said:

I can honestly do nothing but laugh at you if you think that mages are super strong on the highest level of play.

#16 pripripriest

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

View PostAdelise, on 08 November 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

You have some very valid points, I dislike the way you present some of the solutions however
Other healer classes should be toned down, we should not be brought on an equal level

yeah that can be an option too.. but it would require the dps dmg to be toned down as well else what you get is a game made of 3x dps and who oneshot first wins since healers will be not worth having
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#17 Porkz

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

View Postpripripriest, on 06 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

I'm one of those fools that still q arenas as Disc. The reason is simple: shadow is boring and i'm a healer kinda player. I truly can't be bothered playin shadow after so many seasons as disc.
This said i was tryin to take note of any possible thing that might be changed to make disc priest a solid class once again. I devided my ideas in different categories. Here is what i think, hopin you find it intersting and can give your contribution for it:


MANA ISSUES:

After the rapture hot fix and with the upcoming buff on mindbender (1.5 up from 1.3) i honestly don't have any problem managing my mana in arena matches. Notice i stack spirit on blue slot, have spirit/resi on yellow, int/pvp power on red and using int+2% mana as meta. So far i got 9k spirit (i'm BS and JC) plus the proc from the darkmoon trinket (aka 3k spirit with 45 icd). Using mind bender pretty much on cd unless settin up a kill, makes me perfectly fine on mana. Not even using hymn anymore. The problem with this is gear setup is you get really lower pvp power: i'm runnin with current 19% pvp power (yet to get pvp t1). Should be able to drop some spirit gems as soon as gear lvl will be higher and focus bit more on pvp power. I honestly don't think mana on priest needs to be buffed, it's other healers regen that needs to be nerfed (see resto druids or shammies).
Another thing to do should be the revert of inner focus: buff crit and put it back to mana free cost of next spell casted. Also lowering the cd of P.I. would be a good thing, say 1.5 min. but this last one can be discussed better.



SURVIVABILITY AND CC

Here is the worst part. Being a cloth user with very few cds is disgusting: atm pretty much any melee on cds can destroy you, like.. litteraly blow you up. Focused will is a good buff but it won't be enough to grant priests a way out. What can be done ?


1) PoM needs a consistant buff: let's face it, every class but priest got really good instant heals. Priest got nothing. With cds, shammy pala or druid can pick up a target from 10% hp up to full. priest still needs to put off at least 2 casts. This has to be changed. Not askin for a priest version of NS but they should at least considering buffing PoM and renew. Renew ticks for 6k in arena with 17k spell power. that's ridicolous : it's 2x what it did in cata but hp pools are about the double. Almost useless.
2) The change of glyph system should help on this. Having desperation, inner focus and sw:d all base line for disc (for shadow the glyph of sw:d does make sense) would be just fair and won't affect pve at all since those are not chosen for pve anyway. Think of Shammies having aura mastery (lol) or druid able to cast barkskin under ANY condition or iron bark on a lol30 secs cd (if i'm not mistaken). This would allow the disc priest to choose stuff like Glyph of PW:S (used to a must in cata) for extra instant heals. Just fix it so that it doesn't convert absorption but ADD heals to the normal effect.
3) I don't think set bonus needs to change. you have fade with phantas if you wanna run free and tbh the set bonus atm is rather strong.
4) PW:S needs to be undispellable and to balance that u can nerf strenght of soul to 1 sec down from 2. either that or reove glyph of purge. having a retard chasing you spammin purge while warrior is litterally but rapin you ain't fun nor skillful. Either this or make Spirit shell undispellable.
5) Reduce the cd of PS and PW:B to 2 mins
6) You could make Void Tendrils a base line ability with a longer cd. After all all items have some kinda snare/root. Keep in mind priest also doesn't have interrupts what so ever, this would be a good compensation considering we even lost MC and MB.
7) Psyfiend. Increase it's cd to 1 min up from 45 secs, but make it horrify ppl (still dispellable ofc) for half the time. So instead of 8-4-2 make it 4-2-1 but with no dr with psychic scream. Even with a glyph.
8) Divine Aegis : needs to be changed entirely. Fuck the buff to 50% of crit heals: if anything this will be either purged or will just get games down to rng. Now, considering we run usually with somewhat like 6-7% crit, i'd say it's pretty ridicolous. Just make it create an absorbtion of a certain lower ammount (say 20%) ) and work on everyheal. This way you don't even need to buff other heals which with 4 set bonus are quite fine if you ask me. Maybe just buff penance a little bit
9) throwin it out there: how about bringing back divine hymn ? it was honestly a great spell. My dream is to have the wotlk prechange version of it.. the one that other than improuving heals on targets was stunnin enemies. Loved it.


DMG OUTPUT

Priest has always been chosen for its dps output. Old wotlk rmp was considered to be a 3dps comp. Now, our dmg atm is fuckin terrible and I guess it's because of attonement and how it affects pve. No need to change it all around tho so u can fix this without rapin pve. How ? simple: if you fix main glyph slots (as i said on survivability part) you have free spots in which you can take glyph of holy fire and glyph of smite. They significantly increase dmg output and game would stay the same. Nobody takes desperation innerfocus or sw:d for pve anyway.

DISPELLS

Once upon a time priest was the best dispeller in game. It could dispell twice off/def. Slowly dispel magic has become everyone's ability with disturbing exceptions like shammies being able to heal while dispel, dispel all curse and magic + 2x dispel offencively while glyphin for it. This has to be changed. Druid and Shammy have a great plus cause being able to dispell curses. How do we give priest something that makes it special without destroyin pve ? Ideas:

1) As Disc, your Purify (def dispel) cd is reduced to 5 secs.
2) As Disc, your MD cd is redused to 8 secs down from 13. Keep in mind before cryin that MD has an insane mana cost (40k) so you can't really spam it. Glyph for faster cast will still be needed but under the condition that the 3 we mentioned already will become base lines for disc.

a good alternative for the point 1 would be having Purify on 2 stacks so that you need to cast it twice before it triggers the cd. Pretty much like warrior charge or freedom talented or Roll from monks. So basically u can stack 2 x dispel and use em in a row. Just an idea, feel free to like it or dislike it.


With this changes priest will make a real come back on the ladders and, overall, on game since nobody is actually playin it apart from some insane multirank1 makin rmp still work. Any suggestion/idea/positive criticism is very welcome.

peace


Mana Issues:
Arena was never base on having the best mana efficiency as priest. If you really want to be mana efficient then I would suggest using Heal a lot. But drinking early is honestly something that's very underrated atm. (MoP water is kind of OP). I don't agree with the inner focus revert. Flash / Greaters can heal for 200k+ with grace stacks / holy spark in Arenas. I'm disappointed that PI is only a self buff. 1.5 min CD would be nice but not needed seeing how our spirit shell cd is only 1 min and you can juggle them.

Survivability and CC
Focus Will change should be enough if they do tone down melee classes being able to stack all their CDs together (wars with ava + reck, ferals with zerk + incarnation). Honestly they should just reduce the duration but lower the CD to make the damage healable / peelable.
1. Priest heals have always been weak compared to every other class (maybe not druids in cata), we've always been known for shields + absorbs. I agree that priest needs an NS of some sort especially if we have to choose between Spectral Guise / Desperate Prayer. Also 1 minute NS is stupid. Make evangelism stackable via Greater Heal. Barely have enough time to smite in area as it is.
2. Desperation glyph should be baseline. MD glyph should be removed and made baseline for disc / holy priest but not shadow. SW:D glyph baseline would be arguable, not every team we need to sw:d cc but using it to keep people in combat without dotting is nice esp with the removal of wands.
3. Holy spark should apply to shields and penance imo. Maybe body and soul should be passive for disc.
4. I agree with shaman purge being retarded. I wouldn't say making PW:S undispellable would be a right change, rather making purges / spellsteal / dispel magic having a 3-4 second cd?
5. PW:B CD should be lowered but not PS doesn't. We already have Void Shift and Life Grips to counter damage.
6. Bringing back mass line MC (2 second cast time) would be your best bet.
7. I don't agree with your Psyfiend change what so ever. Psyfiend would be so retardedly op and Shadow Priest comps would be even better which how much longer you can see people. Shadow Priest Won't even need to use Psychic Horror anymore. Imo psyfiend should be like Capacitor Totem where it would AoE fear people but would take some time to vamp up (4 seconds maybe?).
8. Making divine aegis able to stack for every heal to 20 percent is kinda stupid because it would be like a passive spirit shell. Rather have it work on some spells like PoM and penance.
9. Divine hymn was awesome and def should be brought back!

DPS
Smite damage from WotLK is def reminiscent. Easy fix would be buffer the damage by 2 maybe? and then having attonement heal for half that way it would not effect PVE healing what so ever.

Dispells
1. 5 seconds would be nice but it def doesn't solve the problem of spammable cc.
2. Read point 1.

I like the alternative esp if it was like the double hands spells paladins have.


View PostHiddenstalke, on 07 November 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I really hate the dispel mechanic right now - it makes some comps too godmode just becouse they can spam cc chain you forever(best of all most of them are even aoe effects).x2 defensive dispel was best thing priest had last expansions pretty much - now they completely ruined it. i have no idea how blizzard even came up with this idea rly.

I agree but I also disagree, with the new dispel system it stress cross CC even more especially when going for the kill. It's just retarded when people can land kills with just unhealable damage rather than landing CC.


View PostAdelise, on 08 November 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

You have some very valid points, I dislike the way you present some of the solutions however
Other healer classes should be toned down, we should not be brought on an equal level

Agreed.


PS: Also revamp level 90 talents, we need something less aoeish and more single target and also remove blood fear

Edited by Porkz, 08 November 2012 - 06:32 PM.





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