124 replies to this topic

[Domesauce]

Iambored, on 06 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Except he goes out of his way to say the damage is too high.

Actually he only says that they aren't saying it's fine, but that they are going to act as if the damage is totally fine and the only problem is how hard it is to get.


It's also not hard at all to get TFB stacks, you can literally walk up to someone and push overpower 3 times and ta-da, you have a 3stack. It's rare, but it's not hard. There's no extraordinary brainpower required, you just push your normal buttons and sometimes you get to do absurd damage. The damage you can do with it isn't changing at all, they are very clearly okay with it.




Edit: yea in the next post he says "I never said that Warrior burst was not fine"

That's really going out of your way to say it's too high......

Edited by Domesauce, 06 November 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[originn]

Every time i see someone defending this retarded mechanic i die a little inside

[deac00r]

who was the rel glad mage i crit for 407k today in 3s?

just interested

[GrieverZ]

originn, on 06 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Every time i see someone defending this retarded mechanic i die a little inside

Quote

Ghostcrawler Rather than nerfing random various stuff, could you please look at cd-stacking and Taste for Blood instead? warriors

Greg Street ‏Ghostcrawler
Ninjaflipps TfB in PvP is very rare. However, bc it's so rare, nerfing it would have little balance impact but might stop flashy videos.

From Twitter. Honestly that response just boggles my mind, how can they even go out their way to have international tournaments with a lead designer that thinks that globalling people "on rare occurences" is even remotely fine and the only reason to fix this shit is to stop "flashy videos" from the community.

[hoodrych]

GrieverZ, on 06 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

From Twitter. Honestly that response just boggles my mind, how can they even go out their way to have international tournaments with a lead designer that thinks that globalling people "on rare occurrences" is even remotely fine and the only reason to fix this shit is to stop "flashy videos" from the community.

I just saw that and was pretty amazed too. This is why they kind of need someone who PvP's thoroughly to speak on issues like this. It doesn't matter if it only happens as a rare occurrence (hint: 3 stacks are pretty normal and easy). Just because it takes 30 seconds to "build" doesn't mean anything. No ability should crit for 9k normally and when everything lines up it has the potential to be 250k+. It's just bad design.

Half the percents so a 5 stack is 250% (why is 500% even a thing?). Alternatively, you could just fix cool down stacking, and simply make Avatar a much shorter duration and keep the snare immunity so Warriors had some type of finishing power (remember Cata?), but, you know... that makes sense.

No immunity for Avatar, HT silence.. the rise of the Wizards is among us.

Edited by hoodrych, 06 November 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[zaeya]

GrieverZ, on 06 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

From Twitter. Honestly that response just boggles my mind, how can they even go out their way to have international tournaments with a lead designer that thinks that globalling people "on rare occurences" is even remotely fine and the only reason to fix this shit is to stop "flashy videos" from the community.

Rare? Every game I say out loud, "He's swiftying on me, HALP PLS. **MASHING EVERY CD TO LIVE IN THE GAME**"

[GrieverZ]

zaeya, on 06 November 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Rare? Every game I say out loud, "He's swiftying on me, HALP PLS. **MASHING EVERY CD TO LIVE IN THE GAME**"

His words, not mine :/. Cooldown stackings ("swifty") and TfB oneshots are 2 different issues tough.

100% agree with Hoodrych.

[Djandawg]

hoodrych, on 06 November 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

I just saw that and was pretty amazed too. This is why they kind of need someone who PvP's thoroughly to speak on issues like this. It doesn't matter if it only happens as a rare occurrence (hint: 3 stacks are pretty normal and easy). Just because it takes 30 seconds to "build" doesn't mean anything. No ability should crit for 9k normally and when everything lines up it has the potential to be 250k+. It's just bad design.

Half the percents so a 5 stack is 250% (why is 500% even a thing?). Alternatively, you could just fix cool down stacking, and simply make Avatar a much shorter duration and keep the snare immunity so Warriors had some type of finishing power (remember Cata?), but, you know... that makes sense.

No immunity for Avatar, HT silence.. the rise of the Wizards is among us.

Completely agree with the first part and disagree with the second part of your post.
Ideally no ability should crit for more than %20 of someone's hp and there are tons of ways to fix the Taste for Blood.
That said, warriors don't need any compensation.They just need nerfs. Now that every viable healer has a freedom; safeguard, heroic leap and 12 sec cd charge will have to be enough.
They are at S5 dk status right now. If they made a decision to nerf defensive stance and second wind, increase shockwave cd and disable offensive cooldown stacking, warriors would still be better than every other melee class, maybe with the exception of feral druids.

[Powerslave]

GrieverZ, on 06 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

From Twitter. Honestly that response just boggles my mind, how can they even go out their way to have international tournaments with a lead designer that thinks that globalling people "on rare occurences" is even remotely fine and the only reason to fix this shit is to stop "flashy videos" from the community.

he's the same person who forces people to play something they dont like via gearing (rbgs), made death knights etc

[Lovemama]

Chromix, on 05 November 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

http://www.twitch.tv...84424?t=4h2m35s

best reaction

[Tosan]

hoodrych, on 06 November 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

No immunity for Avatar, HT silence.. the rise of the Wizards is among us.

Yeah they're also making BM pets lose their immunity during BW.  Pet is already CC'd 24/7 as it is against wizards (especially any mage wizard team).  Solution?  Make it to where the one window of opportunity to actually land a kill is even more flukey because my pet got accidentally nova'd right after popping BW.

Such a flimsy design.  Although I'd rather MM be viable and BM be flushed down a toilet, but still.

[Tosan]

Djandawg, on 06 November 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Completely agree with the first part and disagree with the second part of your post.
Ideally no ability should crit for more than %20 of someone's hp and there are tons of ways to fix the Taste for Blood.
That said, warriors don't need any compensation.They just need nerfs. Now that every viable healer has a freedom; safeguard, heroic leap and 12 sec cd charge will have to be enough.
They are at S5 dk status right now. If they made a decision to nerf defensive stance and second wind, increase shockwave cd and disable offensive cooldown stacking, warriors would still be better than every other melee class, maybe with the exception of feral druids.

Actually gonna have to agree with this.  I'd be okay with Avatar being a shorter duration and keeping it's snare immunity but it'd also have to be something like a 10% dmg increase tops or completely unstackable with anything else.  Warriors are scary without cooldowns but not OP at all, but when CD's are popped it's like being locked in a cage with an angry lion.

Warriors definitely have "finishing power" in the fact that their mobility and ability to stun is pretty amazing.  I still think Shockwave should be a 30 second CD.  But yeah,  charge/heroic leap/safeguard are great mobility alone, but in team play, with dispels/freedoms available (and innately less mage rooting to begin with, now that CoC root is gone),  Warrior's shouldn't have any problems with "finishing power".  If you're having trouble finishing stuff, it's probably in situations every class has trouble finishing stuff, probably has to do with Spriest heals being absurd.  I feel like I have to try SO FUCKING HARD to kill anything when a Spriest is involved, even pre-stampede fix (due to godcomp CC).

[Bloobungle]

Tosan, on 06 November 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

I feel like I have to try SO FUCKING HARD to kill anything when a Spriest is involved, even pre-stampede fix (due to godcomp CC).

Man, if you think you have to try hard.... Imagine yourself as a class that doesn't have over the top easy burst potential.

Take a quick glance at the 3v3 ladders when you get a chance. It's disgusting how many teams are on the first page with either:
- Arms Warrior
- BM Hunter
- Frost mage
- Destruction/Demonology Warlock
- Combination of those

The difference between them and let's say... a Balance Druid? I'll let you make your own conclusions.

Anyways, didn't mean to stray away from the main topic here.
WARRIORS SHOULD NOT BE HULK-LIKE!

[deprivelol]

we need to keep this one shot macro off the streets

[Shadowtiger]

Blizzard are in a fucked up spot atm. Some nukes needs so fucking hard down-tuning (Warlock, mage, warrior, Stampede (got it alrdy), etc.etc.). But when that is done, what in the actual fuck will stop healers such as resto shamans from keeping players alive 45 min every single game (this is disregarding off-healing by certain classes).

And nerfing all healing and/or mana regen (of some certain classes, read; shaman). Will totally fuck up with PvE so, no, ain't gonna happen.

What should be done?

- Less offensive cooldowns with so fucking huge impact.

- Some healing (most healing), specially some classes off-healing and some instant heals with low cooldown that heals for riddiculous amounts have to be tuned down ALOT (if dmg/burst nerfs that I/we hope for will come). Don't get me wrong tho, I think spells like natures swiftness etc. should exist. Big cooldowns make games more exiting, I just feel that it's better that they are on the defensive side, easier to balance. Tho many do have way to short cooldown at this state of the game game.

- Keep the defensive cooldowns, to an extent. The design that you will slowly tear down the enemy team by getting them to pop their defensive cooldowns, and then finally, when all are used they will die in a cc-chain on their healer (or then they take so much more dmg than the other team that their healer will finally oom, this CAN'T happen with some healers atm, I've had restoshamans sit on <5% mana for 5 min keeping people up, that is simply retarded...)

- Some spells/combos with too low cooldowns do too much dmg.
   -Frostfire,frostbomb,icelance x2 for 250k+
   -Heroic strike with stacks (I know it's RNG as fuck, but still, 300k+, realy??)
   -Chaos bolt? (will be fixed if offensive cooldowns get fixed in arena? Help me here warlocks, you know your class better than i)
   -BW Lynx Rush if you stand alone? Still only "realy" effective on clothies imo. And I like the design that there actually is a difference if you hit on cloth or plate as a physical dmg dealer. Something i didn't feel existed in wotlk

- I find it funny that ever since TBC they've talked about how they want arena to be more about sitting some where around 30-80% hp of you're getting targeted. So it isn't as much "Everyone sits on full hp and waits for the next shit storm to break lose when someone gets globaled". AND STILL I feel like the only expansion where they managed with this was in TBC. I just can't grasp how it can be so incredibly fucking hard to make it balanced, specially now with this PvP power and "Healing increased in arena by 30%" or whatever it is. Values that they easily can modify to make the PvP better. Same goes with cooldowns, just make them not usable in arena (It's a sloppy way to deal with it, but heck, its better than nothing?)



My few cents, over and out, hope someone cares to read the wall of text...

Edited by Shadowtiger, 07 November 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[Tosan]

Bloobungle, on 07 November 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

Man, if you think you have to try hard.... Imagine yourself as a class that doesn't have over the top easy burst potential.

Take a quick glance at the 3v3 ladders when you get a chance. It's disgusting how many teams are on the first page with either:
- Arms Warrior
- BM Hunter
- Frost mage
- Destruction/Demonology Warlock
- Combination of those

The difference between them and let's say... a Balance Druid? I'll let you make your own conclusions.

Anyways, didn't mean to stray away from the main topic here.
WARRIORS SHOULD NOT BE HULK-LIKE!

1) Against comps like Godcomp, your pet or yourself are CC'd constantly and both you and your pet have to be free to deal damage (BW gives pet 10 sec immunity right now but if you get CC'd during that, say goodbye to your 1 reliable burst window).

2) BM hunters are no longer a god class now that Stampede was fixed (especially since rabid was nerfed before the actual issue was fixed), they're pretty average/in line with a lot of other things, no longer god tier with warriors.

3) Not sure why you didn't list Shadowpriest in that list of classes, or Ferals.  Ferals may be rare (like all hybrid specs seem to be most of the time), but they're definitely a god class.  BM Hunters are removed from that list since 99% of the high rated ones are camping the rating they got when Stampede was solo'ing teams for them.

4) Destro burst is pretty stupid but in Arena it's not nearly as big of an issue as you can train them and stunt their ability to generate embers and even get Chaos Bolt casts off at the right time.  Demo locks seem pretty stupid though, yeah.

5) Moonkins are poorly designed, they either play absurd tab-dot pressure retard comps, or they get trained into the dirt, unable to do much.  I wish Moonkin was a well rounded, legitimate arena spec too, but unfortunately it seems it will always be gay and gimmicky (like BM for hunters, Demo for locks, etc).  At least Feral/Resto are amazing.

Edited by Tosan, 07 November 2012 - 12:46 AM.

[infectionx]

Chromix, on 05 November 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

http://www.twitch.tv...84424?t=4h2m35s

DAMN, EPIC REACTION xD

It took the warrior less than  20seconds to get the stacks for it btw .

[zaeya]

More funsies with rare occurences.

[Bonjourhihi]

Every warriors from my realmpool who were at 1800 last season, are now at 2400/2500. I mean, it says everything about this class. Same for mage.
Blizzard developpers are so dumb, being able to have 6 burst spell in a macro ? Never thought they could do something so stupid

[GrieverZ]

BOOM MOTHERFUCKA.

He outplayed that druid imo.