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#1 Actionjacksn

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

So I may be wrong, but haste cap for extra dp and swp ticks is at 8085.

I tested it out and this is what I found:

5300haste = 6 vt ticks, 8 swp ticks
2006haste = 6 vt ticks, 8 swp ticks
1999haste = 5 vt ticks, 8 swp ticks

5300 haste = 7 dp ticks
1347haste = 7 dp ticks
1324haste = 6 dp ticks

Therefore, you do not recieve any benefit from haste for extra swp ticks until 8085 all the way from 1999haste and you do not recieve any extra dp ticks until 8085 as well.

There are a few small benefits to haste, such as fiend swing speed, gcd and very reduced casting speed (roughly 0.05s) but overall doesn't crit mastery seem more useful? I have noticed almost everyone has been reforging haste, but it seems kind of pointless since its impossible to reach the 8085 haste cap (unless you have a profession like herbalism) so I just thought I'd maybe see what everyone thought about this.

Benefits of Crit = if mastery procs on crits, it crits twice, fiend crit rate increased, more apparitions spawning (up to 3), crit applies to all casts not just dots over time, if mb glyph is being used, it has a increased chance of being proc'd, more pvp power increases dmg per crit

Benefits of Mastery = more chance to proc dots twice, increased mana recieved due to increased vt procs (assuming not being absorbed), increasing pvp power increases mastery tick dmg per dot

I don't know which is better yet in terms of crit/mastery, but I am leaning towards crit.

If I missed anything or made a mistake somewhere in my judgement just let me know.

Thanks.

#2 Kelberot

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

Despite no extra tick, as far as I know, haste is still king when it comes to DPS increase in PVE, and faster casts translate good in PvP imo.

Yes, crit/mastery could be burstier, but I'm fine with haste.
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#3 drakuru

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:24 AM

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Is it possible to get to reach the point of 8085  in full pvp gear?
In pvp you cast Massdispel, instant Shields, Purge, Psyfiend, Fear or  you switch into Shadowform.
Don't forget that you can fakecast easier with more haste. ( jk Gag Order)
At this point haste really shines.

Also what about the mastery buff ( +3000)? Does it mean that crit > mastery if you have it?
I'll do the same like Kelberoth, go haste and then mastery.


Edit: I think the haste break point doesn't matter because it adds 2 seconds to Shadow word pain ( 17-19) so in pve it would mean that you have 2 more globals.

Edited by drakuru, 25 October 2012 - 12:26 AM.

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#4 Actionjacksn

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:03 AM

Ye I personally love haste, but you both have valid points. I just figured I would think outside the box, and crit/mastery seem a lot more viable than in the past seasons. I guess its very comp and playstyle dependent.

Edited by Actionjacksn, 25 October 2012 - 03:04 AM.


#5 Milanah_6538907

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:30 PM

View Postdrakuru, on 25 October 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

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Is it possible to get to reach the point of 8085  in full pvp gear?
In pvp you cast Massdispel, instant Shields, Purge, Psyfiend, Fear or  you switch into Shadowform.
Don't forget that you can fakecast easier with more haste. ( jk Gag Order)
At this point haste really shines.

Also what about the mastery buff ( +3000)? Does it mean that crit > mastery if you have it?
I'll do the same like Kelberoth, go haste and then mastery.


Edit: I think the haste break point doesn't matter because it adds 2 seconds to Shadow word pain ( 17-19) so in pve it would mean that you have 2 more globals.

Well, crit is always > mastery, atleast in PvE, mastery buff doesnt change anything there i think. We just take mastery in PvP cause it helps us more than crit since we arent focusing on max dps rather on setting up kills where mastery helps us to get more procs.

#6 Affixiate

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

It is possible to hit the +2ticks threshold if you have herbalism. It may seem quite pointless over other professions at the moment but it boosts me up to just over 25% haste when i pop Lifeblood + on use Malevolant trinks for added burst.

If i were to forge out of haste i would probably go into crit as i usually get the mastery buffs that send you over 25% mastery which should proc quite often if you have at least 2 targets dotted up.

Just personal preference for now i think whether you choose to drop a bit of haste to increase the other stats. I've seen a few priests on my server that rock full crit forge (drop 3-4%haste for about 4% more crit) which im sure works well with the added 5% crit given to you by a mage buff.

#7 amirdaheat

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

I'd say go all out on mastery, since you need a ton of haste to actually make it useful and as far as I know reaching the 2nd tier of dot ticks is impossible with full pvp set (correct me if I'm wrong). So with mastery, not only does it increase your chance to double the damage on dots which is an equivalent to a critical hit (2x hits) but that extra hit gives more mana back, and allows the use of more procs.

Sure it can "feel" nicier to have a lot of haste to get cast off faster really, but at what cost? And how much of a difference does it really make to get that one vampiric touch up 0.3 sec faster? It would be understandable if we were mages whereas important spells such as polymorph can be vital for those 0.3 sec faster cast, but all of our CC's are instant so it doesn't matter.

So in conclusion I would go; mastery -> crit -> haste (but keeping 2021 haste rating for an extra VP tick).

Thoughts?
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#8 Affixiate

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:45 AM

View Postamirdaheat, on 03 November 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

I'd say go all out on mastery, since you need a ton of haste to actually make it useful and as far as I know reaching the 2nd tier of dot ticks is impossible with full pvp set (correct me if I'm wrong). So with mastery, not only does it increase your chance to double the damage on dots which is an equivalent to a critical hit (2x hits) but that extra hit gives more mana back, and allows the use of more procs.

Sure it can "feel" nicier to have a lot of haste to get cast off faster really, but at what cost? And how much of a difference does it really make to get that one vampiric touch up 0.3 sec faster? It would be understandable if we were mages whereas important spells such as polymorph can be vital for those 0.3 sec faster cast, but all of our CC's are instant so it doesn't matter.

So in conclusion I would go; mastery -> crit -> haste (but keeping 2021 haste rating for an extra VP tick).

Thoughts?

Probably a solid idea especially seeing as haste is really not as helpful once you reach a certain point (if you unable to hit that 24% haste threshold for 2 extra dot ticks).

Mastery in my mind is always going to be better over Crit just simply because it is a much easier stat to increase and scales better. I think we can achieve close to 26% or so (maybe even more if using insignia trinkets).

Compare that to Crit which is a pain to get a decent amount of (i've tried and only managed to get it to 10.51%) without assisting buffs. Its nice when we do land that big Mind Blast or DP because the numbers are massive but would you really want to hope for an rng Crit to win you the game?

I suppose choosing out of the two may differ depending on your specific comp and the buffs that the other classes give to you.

#9 Kerzen

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

The difference you get to crit is so minimal, I dont think it's worth going for it, and even though it benefits all the spells you have and not only dots like mastery, seriously how often do you get to free cast? For mastery the reforges are about 3.5-4% more procs.

That being said I think mastery is easily better stat for pvp than crit, as you need to dot two targets up to keep up with the mana, meaning you get more mindspike procs, more mind blasts procs = more orbs for disarm / dp and ultimately more mana, which makes mastery benefit you even when you just dot a target for the sake of it and not to pressure him.

Haste is good but I don't think its worth it to go all out for it before a major haste breaking point, which we ain't going to reach this season anyways.

Edited by Kerzen, 03 November 2012 - 09:32 AM.


#10 amirdaheat

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:23 PM

View PostAffixiate, on 03 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Probably a solid idea especially seeing as haste is really not as helpful once you reach a certain point (if you unable to hit that 24% haste threshold for 2 extra dot ticks).

Mastery in my mind is always going to be better over Crit just simply because it is a much easier stat to increase and scales better. I think we can achieve close to 26% or so (maybe even more if using insignia trinkets).

Compare that to Crit which is a pain to get a decent amount of (i've tried and only managed to get it to 10.51%) without assisting buffs. Its nice when we do land that big Mind Blast or DP because the numbers are massive but would you really want to hope for an rng Crit to win you the game?

I suppose choosing out of the two may differ depending on your specific comp and the buffs that the other classes give to you.

Actually I believe you will be able to reach 35% mastery as I have 30% right now as a human without being fully epic geared, not to mention the new upgradable gear coming in 5.1.
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