Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Affliction vs Destruction, this season ?


  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

#21 varvaros

varvaros
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Genjuros
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 80
  • Talents: Affliction

Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

View PostNycto, on 08 October 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

how can you have 17% crit..? how much int, pvp power and mastery do you have (unbuffed)
My bad.It was probably with 2 pve trinkets and 5% int buff.Dont remember what i was wearing when i randomly checked it.But regemmed to pvp power since then.Now i am at 14.5 crit/40mastery/27.5 pvp power
Neigh! Whinny!

#22 Wallirik

Wallirik
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 916
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/0/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 2567
  • 3v3: 3226
  • 5v5: 2495
  • RBG: 2592

Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostBlackdawn, on 08 October 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

wtf is demon soul? isnt that gone since mop?

Dark soul, basically just a new name for demon soul since it's now spec-specific.

#23 Ensipid

Ensipid
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 954
  • Talents: Affliction
  • RBG: 2561

Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:00 AM

With the way healing is atm, I don't see affliction being good. It does amazing damage, you outdamage everyone else but it can always be out healed. Also destro hands down has the best survivability with ember tap. Destro also has the ability to get a kill during a full fear, affliction really doesn't feel like it cam - especially vs all these resto druids.

#24 Filovirus

Filovirus
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 3344
  • Talents: ./././././.
  • RBG: 2795

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:22 AM

View PostEnsipid, on 10 October 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

With the way healing is atm, I don't see affliction being good. It does amazing damage, you outdamage everyone else but it can always be out healed. Also destro hands down has the best survivability with ember tap. Destro also has the ability to get a kill during a full fear, affliction really doesn't feel like it cam - especially vs all these resto druids.

Mhm, and that's the heart of the problem. Doing the most damage at the end of the game is meaningless when healers have yet to come in contact with what we used to know as "mana pools". If single-target damage or single-target burst damage are the only effective types, I don't ever see Affliction being a competitive spec for Warlocks.

#25 Faetalx

Faetalx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 82
  • Talents: Affliction 0/1/0/0/1/.

Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:56 AM

View PostFilovirus, on 12 October 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

Mhm, and that's the heart of the problem. Doing the most damage at the end of the game is meaningless when healers have yet to come in contact with what we used to know as "mana pools". If single-target damage or single-target burst damage are the only effective types, I don't ever see Affliction being a competitive spec for Warlocks.
I still think it's to early to tell. Warlocks always seem to get stronger as the expansion goes on.

Edited by Faetalx, 16 October 2012 - 07:58 AM.

Posted Image

#26 duskfallx

duskfallx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 250
  • Talents: Demonology 0/1/1/2/0/1
  • RBG: 2363
  • LocationPoland

Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:14 AM

View PostFaetalx, on 16 October 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

I still think it's to early to tell. Warlocks always seem to get stronger as the expansion goes on.
Probably not. The way the game is right now kinda negates how affliction works. The spec might get carried by other classes, but I don't see it being as good as it ever was before.
The only way is to increase dot damage (nerf MG/sb:soulswap?), which won't happen because of pve.

#27 Nadagast

Nadagast
  • Moderators
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1709
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/0/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 1878
  • 3v3: 2779

Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:03 AM

My impressions:
Affliction is bad/mediocre.
Destruction is/will be bad as soon as people learn how to play against it.
Demonology is mediocre.

All three specs are very boring to play.

#28 Nycto

Nycto
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 1506

Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

View Postduskfallx, on 27 October 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

Probably not. The way the game is right now kinda negates how affliction works. The spec might get carried by other classes, but I don't see it being as good as it ever was before.
The only way is to increase dot damage (nerf MG/sb:soulswap?), which won't happen because of pve.
What if they increased dot damage via pvp power? Isn't that why they added pvp power/pvp resilience in the first place, to be able to play with pvp stats without it messing with pve? I think that could be the only way to do it, but then again it will also buff other classes damage through dots which isn't exactly needed.

#29 Bonjourhihi

Bonjourhihi
  • Wèntworth
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Blackrock
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 201
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/2/0/2/0
  • RBG: 583

Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:52 PM

afflication gameplay : soul shard, soul swap
destruction gameplay : rain of fire, chaos bolt

best

#30 Breez

Breez
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 89
  • Talents: Destruction 1/2/0/2/2/2
  • 2v2: 1452
  • 3v3: 2695
  • 5v5: 863
  • RBG: 2070

Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

After warrior/hunter nerfs affliction will be a viable spec for sure, but nowhere near top, atm u just cant keep up with the broken warrior/hunter status.

Only thing i dislike is the way they designed spec for MoP, instant dots, instant fear, affliction is always been about getting as many casts off as u can, and malefic grasp while getting trained doesnt fit in at all, you end up doing no pressure when youre getting trained by a warrior.

I really hope that 5.1 patch notes are still in progress and they are aware of the situation.

#31 Chromix

Chromix
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 517
  • Talents: Shadow 2/2/2/1/1/1
  • RBG: 2520

Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:59 AM

Blood fear carries, and ruins the entire class.
It's sad to see such a broken ability make it through a beta.

#32 saffie

saffie
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1089
  • Talents: Destruction 0/1/2/0/2/1
  • RBG: 2112

Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

Plus everyone has so much cc right now that warlocks lost their special position in a comp. Dispel having 8 second cd is a huge buff to polymorph where mages literally spam sheep at points and keep a whole team cced, not to mention ring of frost, novas and deep freeze. Shadow priests are ridicilous with the utility they have, with stuff like void shift and psy fiend, they are far too useful to be used. Even moonkins are better in cc at the moment with natures swiftness being 1 minute cd and cyclone being an amazing cc along with their silence/root.

Yes blood fear is a pretty broken spell and skilless in most times but the way fear has worked was that it was the best cc in the game, therefore it has a lot of counters like berserking, lichborne, tremor because we have always been able to cover our fears with ua and keep them from being dispelled, which made it superior to polymorph and such, now that doesn't matter one bit and taking an affliction warlock with you is a handicap when you can get a shadow priest or a mage. They have much better damage and much better cc.

#33 alleaya

alleaya
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Hellscream
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 73
  • Talents: Discipline 1/2/1/0/2/2
  • RBG: 2053

Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

played my lock in 2s and 3s, affliction seems good in 2s but 3s playing lsd hust cant kill warriors or rets or anything with self heal if they just train the ele, damage at the end is super high but again no finishing power what so eevr.

Drain soul is a joke for a finisher compared to say sshadow brun and execute.

Wont play my lock in 3s till they buff affliction as ive always hated destro (why play destro when you can reroll mage)

#34 Tsx

Tsx
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 1483

Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

View PostNycto, on 27 October 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

What if they increased dot damage via pvp power? Isn't that why they added pvp power/pvp resilience in the first place, to be able to play with pvp stats without it messing with pve? I think that could be the only way to do it, but then again it will also buff other classes damage through dots which isn't exactly needed.
they added pvp power so that pvp gear wont be that effective in pve, or smthing like that as i saw in mmo-champion, not to force pvpers to play with pvp gear.

#35 Eiviyn

Eiviyn
  • Premium Junkies
  • Curse Premium
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Defias Brotherhood
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 73
  • Talents: Destruction 0/2/0/0/2/0

Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

View PostChromix, on 01 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Blood fear carries, and ruins the entire class.
It's sad to see such a broken ability make it through a beta.

Blood Fear is a retarded CC, but I can't say I feel too guilty about using it while every class has a billion interrupts, blanket silences and stuns.

#36 Domesauce

Domesauce
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 873
  • Talents: Affliction 0/0/1/0/2/1
  • RBG: 2098

Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:10 PM

View Postalleaya, on 01 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

played my lock in 2s and 3s, affliction seems good in 2s but 3s playing lsd hust cant kill warriors or rets or anything with self heal if they just train the ele, damage at the end is super high but again no finishing power what so eevr.

Drain soul is a joke for a finisher compared to say sshadow brun and execute.

Wont play my lock in 3s till they buff affliction as ive always hated destro (why play destro when you can reroll mage)

Affliction hits a lot harder in full gear so just keep getting points. On TR I can practically solo something when I get a good set up, unlike the frustration of live with perfect setup and their hp doesn't move. I have 72% mastery with a shaman so I'm guessing we scale a bit better with our extra 3k spell power than most classes.

#37 Eiviyn

Eiviyn
  • Premium Junkies
  • Curse Premium
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Defias Brotherhood
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 73
  • Talents: Destruction 0/2/0/0/2/0

Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:09 PM

5.1's new "cast while moving" 90 talent will help a lot for aff too, but as with every expansion, I think the real buffs to aff will come in the form of the nerfs to other classes.

...though, I'd love to see Malefic Grasp nerfed and dot damage buffed. That new spell is retarded. Prefered shadow bolt. Also who's idea was it to make the Haunt proc 4 seconds long? Really? Did they just have twitch PvE in mind here?

#38 Nadagast

Nadagast
  • Moderators
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1709
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/0/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 1878
  • 3v3: 2779

Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:18 PM

I am skeptical that Affliction will be better enough with full gear that it'll be real and fun to play, especially in 2s.

Play Demo!  It's pretty bursty but the sustained is reasonable too.  Ultimately all three Warlock specs in MoP are not fun (for me) to play.  I think there are two big problems:

1. Too many instant casts.  Blood Fear, Soul Burn Soul Swap, almost every Demo Spell, etc.  I'm not sure Wrath Affliction would work with the current crazy state of interrupts+CC, but Warlocks need to actually be able to pressure when not CCed.  Leaving an Affliction Warlock alone to freecast is not at all scary.  It needs to be, at least a bit.

2. Damage is proportioned really badly.  Destruction damage is super weak besides Chaos Bolt, and Chaos Bolt isn't even that strong without Dark Soul up.  Affliction damage is weak, unless you have Dark Soul up.  For those ~20-30 seconds while your Dark Soul DoTs are rolling, you can actually rot the entire enemy team.  Demonology has low non-pet steady state damage, but bursts for huge amounts with Dark Soul.

I think these two points are linked, but this second point is by far the worst problem with the class.  Steady state damage (that is, damage when not blowing all your CDs) is way too low, partially because our generator spells simply hit for terrible amounts, and partially because we're mostly generating secondary resource when not blowing our CDs.  The secondary resources for each spec really feel like they're just an extra bunch of CDs that you blow with your swifty macro.  I need to make sure I have lots of secondary resource for each Dark Soul I cast, otherwise I've wasted the Dark Soul, so I have to be mostly in generator-mode while my CDs are down and mostly in spending-mode when my CDs are up.  This adds to the huge damage spike that we get when we Dark Soul and forces the steady state damage to be low as hell.  Without CDs, Soul Fires hit for about 17k, Incinerates about 20k, and Affliction DoTs tick for about 4k.  These numbers are literally half of what they should be, in my opinion.  Of course, nerf our burst accordingly.

#39 oiml

oiml
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Antonidas
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 12
  • Talents: Affliction 1/2/2/2/0/1

Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

View PostEiviyn, on 01 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Also who's idea was it to make the Haunt proc 4 seconds long? Really? Did they just have twitch PvE in mind here?

Eh ? The spell only lights up for four seconds and you have a short duration buff. The shard you gain is permanent though, just ignore the proc.

#40 brosearch

brosearch
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1341
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 2269

Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

View PostNadagast, on 01 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

I am skeptical that Affliction will be better enough with full gear that it'll be real and fun to play, especially in 2s.

Play Demo!  It's pretty bursty but the sustained is reasonable too.  Ultimately all three Warlock specs in MoP are not fun (for me) to play.  I think there are two big problems:

1. Too many instant casts.  Blood Fear, Soul Burn Soul Swap, almost every Demo Spell, etc.  I'm not sure Wrath Affliction would work with the current crazy state of interrupts+CC, but Warlocks need to actually be able to pressure when not CCed.  Leaving an Affliction Warlock alone to freecast is not at all scary.  It needs to be, at least a bit.

2. Damage is proportioned really badly.  Destruction damage is super weak besides Chaos Bolt, and Chaos Bolt isn't even that strong without Dark Soul up.  Affliction damage is weak, unless you have Dark Soul up.  For those ~20-30 seconds while your Dark Soul DoTs are rolling, you can actually rot the entire enemy team.  Demonology has low non-pet steady state damage, but bursts for huge amounts with Dark Soul.

I think these two points are linked, but this second point is by far the worst problem with the class.  Steady state damage (that is, damage when not blowing all your CDs) is way too low, partially because our generator spells simply hit for terrible amounts, and partially because we're mostly generating secondary resource when not blowing our CDs.  The secondary resources for each spec really feel like they're just an extra bunch of CDs that you blow with your swifty macro.  I need to make sure I have lots of secondary resource for each Dark Soul I cast, otherwise I've wasted the Dark Soul, so I have to be mostly in generator-mode while my CDs are down and mostly in spending-mode when my CDs are up.  This adds to the huge damage spike that we get when we Dark Soul and forces the steady state damage to be low as hell.  Without CDs, Soul Fires hit for about 17k, Incinerates about 20k, and Affliction DoTs tick for about 4k.  These numbers are literally half of what they should be, in my opinion.  Of course, nerf our burst accordingly.

I haven't played since end of cata. That being said, are those really what afflic dots hit for? LOL I can even comprehend how that is possible or accceptable. 4k is what the dots were ticking for in cata. That is really really dumb. Yet not surprising.

Edit: O and did they really get rid of shadowflame? LOl how in the hell do locks kite? And haunt... wtf a soul shard to cast haunt?? God how locks must really hate playing with these kinds of moronic changes. I cant even imagine not having shadowflame.

Edited by brosearch, 01 November 2012 - 06:33 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<