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#1 pripripriest

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:05 PM

Hello guys,
after couple of weeks since patch hit i'm tryin to figure what discipline will be like in MoP. So far what i noticed is we lost what made our class a good pick for many comps:

- Mana Burn (mostly for 2s and bgs, altho it always been an interrupt bait and it's a pretty good tool to equal mana management up)

- 2x Dif Dispel. Along with Shields and absorbs the reason why Disc has always been rogue's best friend. Disp 2x was amazing vs mages and now seems that after cata giving all healers a dispel, there won't be any difference at all among healing classes. Pretty damn lame.

- Mass dispel.. a cd.. and a necessary glyph made it rather terrible. Forget about pre-MD blocks or bubbles, if you fail to place it on the ground (or the target moves away) or simply you cast it half second too late, you screwed due to the cd. Also the castin time is super lame. I don't see how this would balance the game or higher the skill lvl ... but k. Some might say : "Get the glyph bro" .. yeah .. tho call me stupid but i can't imagine arena without glyph of inner Focus, desperation and Sw:D (which leads us to next point)

- Death CCs... fairwell hydra's movies with deathin blind and such. Now either you glyph it or you can forget about it. So far the glyph is not there yet and i'm missing that on every wargame/bg i play.

- Assist dmg. Erm yeah, like it or not mindspike was amazing: fast castin time, really good dmg combined with the fastcast/90%+ crit mind blast.. and on top of it you could cast it without riskin to get locked out on holy tree AKA get fucked. Now all we got is holy fire (which takes longer castin time than smite, deals less dmg) which you don't really even need to cast unless you use glyph of smite (to increase smite dmg while target has the holy fire dot)... altho same as for mass dispel: forget wasting a glyph slot for that

- Mana issues... OK, fiend every 3 mins .. fine. What about rapture being absolutely crap and heals costin far too much (at least on a lvl 85 base) ?

overall.. i seriously don't see why a team should pick a disc priest over any other healer. It's lame, but seems like to be living start of s9 all over again. Not a QQ post, i'll still be playin priest cause that's what i've always done.. but seriously, any thoughts ? lookin for ideas/suggestions that can get the class back to what it used to be.

Oh, and pls spare us with : go shadow dude ;p
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#2 ROKMODE

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:21 AM

I really miss wotlk offensive disc priest :( :( :(
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#3 Djandawg

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:27 AM

View PostROKMODE, on 18 September 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

I really miss wotlk offensive disc priest :( :( :(
worst mana, worst healing, worst mobility, worst survivability.
dead in charge/ undisarmable bladestorm all day, can't outheal wiz cleave without interrupts.
I only have good memories from s6 2v2 lol.

And to the OP:
I might be dead wrong, hope I am but I played the beta a bit and talked to a few people I know/on stream. It looks like priest is going to be unplayable s5/early s9 style and  when you gear a disc priest, you are looking to play arena after the first major patch, which is likely to be feb/march 2013.

Edited by Djandawg, 18 September 2012 - 12:39 AM.


#4 ROKMODE

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:37 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 18 September 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

worst mana, worst healing, worst mobility, worst survivability.
dead in charge/ undisarmable bladestorm all day, can't outheal wiz cleave without interrupts.
I only have good memories from s6 2v2 lol.

And to the OP:
I played a bit beta and talked to a few people I know/on stream. It looks like priest going to be unplayable s5/early s9 style.
It looks like(and I hope I am wrong) when you gear a disc priest, you are looking to play arena after the first major patch, which is likely to be feb/march 2013.

View PostDjandawg, on 18 September 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

worst mana, worst healing, worst mobility, worst survivability.
dead in charge/ undisarmable bladestorm all day, can't outheal wiz cleave without interrupts.
I only have good memories from s6 2v2 lol.

And to the OP:
I played a bit beta and talked to a few people I know/on stream. It looks like priest going to be unplayable s5/early s9 style.
It looks like(and I hope I am wrong) when you gear a disc priest, you are looking to play arena after the first major patch, which is likely to be feb/march 2013.
Yeah, but they had good offensive shit, which made the class ridiculously more fun than the path its taken since cataclysm.
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#5 Djandawg

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:41 AM

View PostROKMODE, on 18 September 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Yeah, but they had good offensive shit, which made the class ridiculously more fun than the path its taken since cataclysm.
you are absolutely right.

#6 pripripriest

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:44 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 18 September 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

worst mana, worst healing, worst mobility, worst survivability.
dead in charge/ undisarmable bladestorm all day, can't outheal wiz cleave without interrupts.
I only have good memories from s6 2v2 lol.

Tbh Season 7 was more than fine as rmp.. but yeah .. i'm not askin to get the game back to wotlk when gettin globaled was something you couldn't do anything about. Btw 2s as priest during wotlk has always been fun.

View PostDjandawg, on 18 September 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

And to the OP:
I played a bit beta and talked to a few people I know/on stream. It looks like priest going to be unplayable s5/early s9 style.
It looks like(and I hope I am wrong) when you gear a disc priest, you are looking to play arena after the first major patch, which is likely to be feb/march 2013.

this is exactly what i felt like. Problem was in Cataclysm beta disc was disgusting... they fixed it within end of s9 makin it fun and viable. We can just hope Blizzard will take care of this. Probably seein no disc priests on ladders will move something in that direction.

I felt priest was like a point in the middle between healer and dps.. it was a very peculiar class. Now seems like a paladin on cloths who fears and gets his own fears dred by a retarded pet :(

Edited by pripripriest, 18 September 2012 - 12:48 AM.

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#7 Khryl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:54 AM

I played beta for a while and yea things aren’t really looking good for disc. :(

Theres a few things that I think could help disc a lot:

-First of all, the glyphs really need to be changed, because right now we have 0 choices at all. Glyph of Pain supp and inner focus should be made baseline, and glyph of death should either be baseline again or be a minor glyph instead of taking a major glyph slot. Keeping mass dispel as major would be fine I think. It would give us actual choices in terms of major glyphs.

-They also need to give us back our old set bonus, the ''shield freedom'', because without it it’s really painful when you have a melee sitting on you. Phantasm is nice but it doesn’t really replaces it, especially with the 30 second CD. And TBH Phantasm kinda feels awkward. It seems like 2 spells put into 1 spells, you either use it to get away from melee, or to avoid getting CCed when you see a poly or a clone being cast on you. I’d rather have it be one or the other instead of both at the same time.

I suggest just giving the old set bonus to all 3 specs as a passive. We got a new 4 pieces bonus in MoP, and putting it on the disc set again instead of the new bonus would just make every priest take the disc set, even shadow priest. So instead, just give it to everyone as a passive so disc priests gets the disc set and shadow priests gets the shadow set. Phantasm might be too good however if we get the freedom again as a passive and we also have phantasm as another freedom every 30 sec. So if phantasm becomes too good, remove the ''freedom'' component of it and just keep the ''untargetable by ranged attack'', and increase the duration to 4 seconds. It would probably just give us an actual choice between that or body and soul, do I want the speed increase for myself and my teammates or I want to avoid ranged attacks for 4 seconds?

-Also, mana regen is a big issue for disc, the only thing that I can think of is that rapture needs a big buff, right now u actually get less mana back than what it cost you to cast the shield in the first place.

-Our shields and heals are also pretty weak at 90, so buffing it a little bit would also help a lot, our mana regen might be less of an issue if we dont have to heal as much since our heals/shields would be stronger.

-Another thing is our damage, which is really weak right now. One reason might be because of the ''Atonement'' passive, which heals people for 100% of the dmg done everytime we do damage. So, making a minor glyph that disables that passive but increases our damage by 100%(random number) would be really nice. Priests would most likely keep atonement for pve, and for pvp, priest would disable it for more damage since we don’t really need that passive. Just buffing our damage and keeping Atonement would probably be too good, and every priest would just spam damage and heal everyone for a large amount at the same time instead of actually healing.

There’s also a bunch of other stuff that needs to be changed and I won’t really go into details, but Psyfiend needs a longer CD, Angelic Bulwark needs to be made undispellable (so it’s like ret’s sacred shield in cata), and our last tier needs to be changed because every talent in there is crap for pvp. The only one that is ''good'' is halo because it’s a huge AoE and it’s easy to get people out of stealth with it, but that’s the only purpose of the spell, which is kinda lame. Also giving us back Focused Will as a passive would help our survivability alot.

Theres probably other stuff that im not thinking of right now, but that should be most of it.

Edited by Khryl, 18 September 2012 - 04:24 AM.


#8 pripripriest

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:04 AM

Great post there Khryl, thanks mate.
Few things i wanted to point out on your ideas:

- With the glyph changes makin death, desperation and inner focus base line stuff, you could get MD and over all insta holy fire + smite dmg increase so that's a good start to make dmg a bit better.

- Shields made me litteraly emo. Mage Frost barrier = 60k (atm) and my shield 54 k ... Plus i still find hard to understand what Spirit Shell is for. Basically u spam shielding someone then u get 1 dispel = gg ? rather have target healed tbh. Dunno, feels like it could have been smtg cool, like some cooldown to use but it ends up to be sorta lame.

- About Rapture not only is terrible, before it used to give your shield the power of "energize" the target u casted it on givin a bit of energy, rage, mana, runic power or focus. Gone :(
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#9 Zelyx

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:05 AM

what khryl said, but it's really not as bad as start of s9. I wouldn't say disc is unplayable, it's more like inefficient/ S11 druids...
but we do have some really cool new abilities, which I can see being very good once we have death glyph as well (which really should be baseline/minor glyph).

As for mana, stack as much spirit as you can possibly get. Rapture is really weak it might be better at Lvl 90 gear. If they don't buff rapture, our only choice is to just go all out spirit as much as possible. Can't even afford hit right now, though we seem to have a 15% hit chance? Or is this only for smite/holy fire etc and not fears?

also psyfiend is one of the most overpowered things  right now so I can see people wanting a disc over other healers in certain comps like RMP

overall we do need help though

#10 pripripriest

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:07 AM

oh, almost forgot. Atm not having Sw:d usable at any time means as disc the only way to interrupt a flag cappin in bg is using penance or wand. There used to be holynova ..but blizzard felt it was op... :\
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#11 Khryl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostZelyx, on 18 September 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

As for mana, stack as much spirit as you can possibly get. Rapture is really weak it might be better at Lvl 90 gear. If they don't buff rapture, our only choice is to just go all out spirit as much as possible. Can't even afford hit right now, though we seem to have a 15% hit chance? Or is this only for smite/holy fire etc and not fears?

The problem is that it doesnt matter how much spirit u stack, you will always get less mana back than what it cost you to cast the shield, atleast in s12 gear. You have around 7k spirit in full disc gear/spirit reforge without spirit gems, and with full spirit gems you can get up to around 10k spirit. Stacking full spirit or not probably wont make a big difference, because thats how shit rapture is right now.

And yea I forgot about the hit thing, it seems to be only for our holy spells, so we still need hit for fear and stuff. =/

Edited by Khryl, 18 September 2012 - 05:11 AM.


#12 Khryl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:32 AM

View Postpripripriest, on 18 September 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

- With the glyph changes makin death, desperation and inner focus base line stuff, you could get MD and over all insta holy fire + smite dmg increase so that's a good start to make dmg a bit better.
Yea, we would actually get some choices. There's a bunch of other glyphs that are pretty good too.

View Postpripripriest, on 18 September 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

- Shields made me litteraly emo. Mage Frost barrier = 60k (atm) and my shield 54 k ... Plus i still find hard to understand what Spirit Shell is for. Basically u spam shielding someone then u get 1 dispel = gg ? rather have target healed tbh. Dunno, feels like it could have been smtg cool, like some cooldown to use but it ends up to be sorta lame.
Yea I'm not a huge fan of spirit shell but it's pretty good. Basically you have to use it before you see big burst coming, because of our mastery, the heal will become ''bigger'' in the form of a shield. It can stack up really high too, on beta 3 flash heals will give you around 240k worth of shields which is really good, but cost alot of mana and can be dispelled. I usually don't fully stack it in pvp for obvious reasons, but the spell itself can be really good when used at the right time.

Edited by Khryl, 18 September 2012 - 05:13 AM.


#13 Zelyx

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:41 AM

View PostKhryl, on 18 September 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

The problem is that it doesnt matter how much spirit u stack, you will always get less mana back than what it cost you to cast the shield, atleast in s12 gear. You have around 7k spirit in full disc gear/reforge without spirit gems, and with full spirit gems you can get up to around 10k spirit. Stacking full spirit or not probably wont make a big difference, because thats how shit rapture is right now.

And yea I forgot about the hit thing, it seems to be only for our holy spells, so we still need hit for fear and stuff. =/

:(
I might have to l2p shadow after all...

#14 Zelyx

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:41 AM

View PostKhryl, on 18 September 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Yea I'm not a huge fan of spirit shell but it's pretty good. Basically you have to use it before you see big burst coming, because of our mastery, the heal will become ''bigger'' in the form of a shield. It can stack up really high too, on beta 3 flash heals will give you around 240k worth of shields which is really good, but cost alot of mana and can be dispelled. I usually don't fully stack it in pvp for obvious reason, but the spell itself can be really good when used at the right time

jk 1 dispel whole thing is gone lol!!!

#15 Khryl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:53 AM

View PostZelyx, on 18 September 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

jk 1 dispel whole thing is gone lol!!!

Yea, thats pretty much the main reason why you cant stack it in pvp, and why I dont use that often. But if it doesnt get dispelled, because the other team doesnt have a dispel or because you used it just as the dmg came in before it could be dispelled, then it becomes pretty good. The talent ''From Darkness, Comes Light'' is pretty good too when using spirit shell, since it makes the flash heal instant. So when you get a proc you can use spirit shell then instantly get up a big shield, and the instant flash heal proc can proc other instant flash heal for more shields ;)

Edit: But yea dont get me wrong, I really wish we got something else instead of spirit shell :(

Edited by Khryl, 18 September 2012 - 01:58 AM.


#16 pripripriest

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:58 AM

View PostZelyx, on 18 September 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

jk 1 dispel whole thing is gone lol!!!

and that's exactly why i didn't get the point of spirit Shell. BTW good thing shammy gets the purge glyph to dispel 2x magic per cast.. sounds fair to priests. :(
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#17 Khryl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:01 AM

View Postpripripriest, on 18 September 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

and that's exactly why i didn't get the point of spirit Shell. BTW good thing shammy gets the purge glyph to dispel 2x magic per cast.. sounds fair to priests. :(

Yea I didnt include that in my post since thats more of a shaman problem, but yea that glyph hurts disc priests ALOT, and needs to be nerfed for sure.

#18 Zelyx

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:05 AM

View Postpripripriest, on 18 September 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

and that's exactly why i didn't get the point of spirit Shell. BTW good thing shammy gets the purge glyph to dispel 2x magic per cast.. sounds fair to priests. :(
holy shit I didn't know about this.... but I do like being able to purge earth shield

#19 Absoqt

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:25 PM

Worst mobility, worst healing output, worst regen, non-existent damage... that sounds familiar!

Removing baseline abilities and then forcing players to spec into them - what a fresh approach to a new expansion.

The nerf to dispels favors tremendously all mobile healers, i.e. non-priests.

Phantasm is a nerf to 4piece bonus.

Having to major glyph for SWD... no need to comment.

To end on a positive note - healing wise we're better than at the start of S9, when they forgot to update our spells for cata.

Well done blizz!
Gooby pls

#20 ziirlol

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:37 PM

On beta its the same scenario as the start of S9 (before the shield buff and spell updates) in terms of mobility (worse), survivability and mana regen or at least feels that way in comparison to the other multi-purpose healing machines at 90, at least in S9 they needed us for our dispels :(

Edited by ziirlol, 20 September 2012 - 05:45 PM.





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