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#41 Klonken

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:30 PM

View PostPandalol, on 04 November 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Fadezz ran Monk/Feral/Lock to 2300 mmr with like 3 losses. Its far from "not really too viable."

Heres his armory: http://us.battle.net...oreudirl/simple
Copy it you little nooblets.

100% insta cc that doesnt share DR, seems really strong :P

#42 cutelawl

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:45 AM

after all, in 5.1 they will increase all healing spells that costs mana for 10%...
actually i become oom in just 1-2 minutes in arena, what will be after the patch? maybe respeccing to windwalker again -.-
http://www.mmo-champ...date-November-2

#43 Emoeritz

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:18 AM

The problem is that MW is kinda broken in PvE or at least I heard that.

It's somewhat the opposite in PvP, no one wants to play with a monk when they could get a sham or pal. :(

5.1 is not live yet and I hope they'll make MW more viable compared to other healers.

Right now, I suggest spirit reforge/gems, if you're playing with a comp that has longer lasting matches.

#44 cutelawl

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

Yes you're right! I'm very interested in the new Gear-update System, maybe we can get enough spirit through this to compete against holy pally and rshaman.

in addition it feels like the brustheal spell costs too much mana! 24k for a 50k heal is too much, but healing with just healing spheres is not an option for me. its to lucky except if you play with a mage that blinks out of your sphere spams.

but after all the warrior, bm and mage damage is too high so that we can't say how strong the class really is! i think if the dmg get nerfed we can do the most heal over our generated chi.. -> chi-wave and so on!

#45 Emoeritz

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

Keep in mind that we'll generate more chi with the buff from 25% to 35% on our channeled spells and power strikes being finally useful for MW.
In addition to that we'll have a ~10% chance to generate 2 charges of mana tea instead of one. (assuming that we have about 10-12% crit as MW)

I'm not saying that these changes will surely fix our mana but they'll help us for sure.

Another problem I've encountered is our vulnerability to crowd control. (+ the 4 piece bug is still out there and making it worse)
I really enjoyed playing an undead monk on TR because wotf is so damn valuable on a class which can't break/avoid cc otherwise.
Just compare roughly what paladins or shamans got. (I'm not comparing MW with druids, cuz their style of healing is totally different from us)
Moreover we lack good/reliable cc to at least make up for this. Paralysis is not that great because there a several conditions bound to it, no dots, needs to be used from behind to be effective etc.
Leg sweeps is good though but forces us to stand on top of players and we lose deadly reach. (okay I have to mention that we're the only healing class with a disarm and it's a great ability but these effect will probably get nerfed in 5.1)

I think our lack of failsave cc or abilities to avoid being cc'd is what's really hurting us right now and might hurt us even after 5.1.
But we'll see, I still enjoy being a monk. :o

#46 Woodyhoho

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:48 PM

Only thing i found viable in this season as MW monk is to play with a Shadow Priest, like the above said, since we have 0 cc avoidance except roll and that is pretty unreliable it's really hard to get by in 3s except when playing with a shadow priest that can mass dispel.

Just gem full spirit and mana wont really be that big of an issue unless you gonna have to spam Surging mist while a warr is recking and your partner have no way to avoid it.



doing shatterplay at pretty decent rating with a 90% win ratio if anyone is intrested to watch some mw pov.

Edited by Woodyhoho, 14 November 2012 - 01:48 PM.


#47 Emoeritz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:43 AM

Even if this comp would be more viable than others as a monk, your mates would be better of with a shaman or druid for sure.

I don't want to offend you (so please, don"t get me wrong!), but your class/gameplay made nearly no difference for the outcome of these 3 or 4 matches.
Which is pretty much sad to be honest, but that's how MW is right now. :(

I think, I described the problem quite well in my last post, and I still have high hopes for our future but right now, the only healer that is possibly worse than us are priests,

#48 Woodyhoho

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:10 AM

View PostEmoeritz, on 15 November 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Even if this comp would be more viable than others as a monk, your mates would be better of with a shaman or druid for sure.

I don't want to offend you (so please, don"t get me wrong!), but your class/gameplay made nearly no difference for the outcome of these 3 or 4 matches.
Which is pretty much sad to be honest, but that's how MW is right now. :(

I think, I described the problem quite well in my last post, and I still have high hopes for our future but right now, the only healer that is possibly worse than us are priests,

Let me record some games VS mirrors, and i'll show you the diffrence.  MW pretty much counters shatterplays atm and it's quite hilarious watching shatterplays chase me all day while my partners kill their hpals/druids/shamans so easy......

Just because a druid or rsham does better vs certain setups, does not mean it's a better healer overall.

Edited by Woodyhoho, 15 November 2012 - 09:11 AM.


#49 Zander

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

View PostWoodyhoho, on 15 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Let me record some games VS mirrors, and i'll show you the diffrence.  MW pretty much counters shatterplays atm and it's quite hilarious watching shatterplays chase me all day while my partners kill their hpals/druids/shamans so easy......

Just because a druid or rsham does better vs certain setups, does not mean it's a better healer overall.
Good to hear, friend of mine just leveled his mage up and wants to run your comp with my monk. Only problem is I've been spending my conq on DPS gear so far. Have you really been gemming spirit? I considered that early since our heals are so strong already and mana seems to be the only issue(besides possible resil gems idk).

Also fuck roll to avoid CCs while healing. Instantly ported back to wherever you started to roll from if the fear/whatever hits you must be how warriors felt getting charge jumped.

#50 Woodyhoho

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

Yeah, at first i gemmed resil aswell, but i just went oom so easy, then i just switched to Spirit and i landed around 12k combat regen, and since then my mana has been fine, only games i really go oom vs is games where they train me and i cant use Soothing mist as much as i'd like.  

And yeah Roll is kinda unreliable,  thats why i pretty much dont even bother trying to line anymore i just wait for spriest to mass dispel me, since if you stay behind a pillar for a second to much, a team mate might die.... It's kinda retarded but i guess thats how the game is nowadays and since we have to stay still to have a decent healing output running and healing (like all the other healers can) is pretty much impossible.

Edited by Woodyhoho, 15 November 2012 - 07:02 PM.


#51 eliasG

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:56 PM

really starting to like chi wave atm for its burst healing and the fact its not spell stealable like zen sphere,
monks seem far too vunerable to purge atm, give 'grace' like trash buffs :(

#52 Emoeritz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

The two things that still annoy me the most are, the 4-piece-bug and the fact that cocoon is stealable/disspellable.

Everything else is either, hard to change and would need further testing or is not that important.

#53 Lilyi

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:08 PM

Grace-like junk buffs aren't really a fantastic solution because then it just becomes a RNG fuckfest, and the shaman double-purge glyph kinda destroys that anyway. Maybe a 1-2 chi restore on enveloping mist purge, and something to protect life cocoon.

For example, if life cocoon is purged early, it puts a non-dispellable HoT on the target for 50% of the remaining absorb. Or if cocoon is purged, it dematerializes the dispeller for 2s (similar to a banish, non-shared DR like priest satin 4pc). Or dematerializes all enemies within 5yd of the dispelled cocoon. Something like that.

Making soothing mist non-purgeable would be a nice quality-of-life change as well, but I'm not sure if that would be needed.

Edited by Lilyi, 20 November 2012 - 03:21 PM.


#54 eliasG

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

I'd like to see zen meditation usable while cc'd with a 35-40yard range on it effectively making us a giant grounding totem aha

#55 Moreudirl

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

I have had a lot of success on my monk this season running several comps over 2450 and two over 2500. This by all means does not mean the class is remotely close to ok. Before rating reset on this current we were 61-0 as monk mage lock and double healer demon lock(lol 10 games for cap) over 2500 we didnt fight many exploit teams maybe 4 or 5 when our team was still under 1500 and they were 300 mmr lower than we were, we started at about 2450. (before you flame me i know im on bg5 and not bg9, but im a semi competent player regardless and id like to keep this friendly)

If you guys find this helpful i can make a seperate thread and post alot more info i just highlighted the thing people ask me most. I will discuss gearing if anyone is interested too, ive tried so many gem schemes haha.

The strongest thing about monks is the fact that many popular comps which blow healers up such as god comp or various mage comps cant really train a monk efficiently.... as a result of this the solution for them is to chain cc us with their vast array of instant cc. neilyofiend, bloodfear, pom ring etc. For this reason the warlock plays destruction as ember taps can keep him alive long enough for a chi wave firework to cruise in there.

SOME QUALITY OF LIFE CHANGES ID LOvE TO SEE-

1) LIFE COCOON- this is an extremely powerful cd for the fact that the majority of your heals do 50% more while this shield holds. However, it is dispellable and on a 2 minute cooldown. Id love to see the cooldown reduced to 1.5 minutes and there be some penalty for dispelling. When people ask me what i think i generally say id like to see a penalty that when its dispelled half of the total absorb is healed up front analagous to the lifebloom "bloom" effect. If that is not acceptable for some crazy reason perhaps lower the cd but split the shield portion of the spell from the hot increasing portion and only allow the shield to be dispelled. I prefer the "bloom" mechanic

2) paralyze no longer having a positional requirement for pvp. This one is self explanatory as it can be extremely frustrating to line up a full 'sheep' dr cc only to have the hammer of latency keep you frmo landing a 7 second cc on an already stunned target as they continue to spin or face an incorrect direction.

3) potentially add a glyph to work with deadly reach to make your kick also gain 20 yard range but lose the abliity to blanket (may be too overpowered but id love some suggestions.) right now that tree leg sweep is far and away the clear winner.

4) envelop being dispelled... this is a touchy issue as its such a strong heal but its quite expensive chi wise. i feel if it is going to be dispelled it should refund 1 or 2 of the 3 chi cost. Its the equivalent of a shamans greater heal being dispelled. It just isnt good design with no penalty attached to it. alternatively make it undispellable but im afraid that would be far too strong. I dont know guys make some suggestions!!!

HELPFUL TIPS OR SUGGESTIONS
Many people ask me for tips, mainly issues with mana or burst healing i will post here what i tell them all.

1 )DO NOT RELY ON SURGING MIST USE IT AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. if you are surging misting more than once or twice per 30-45 seconds you are going to lose the mana battle generally. Of course there are exceptions vs teams who dispel. Use judgement. Try not to mist as much unless you can weave in a thunder focus tea for the extra output and mana conservation.

2) RELY ON CHI TO HEAL. You should be using expel harm off cooldown to keep your chi flowing, dont rely on this as a self heal only, as it has a large healing range (20k to as much as 60k non crit dno why its such a large range) and in most cases its better to just torpedo away anyway.

3) CHI WAvE IS YOUR FRIEND. Try and use chi wave as much as you can its your strongest heal and its undispellable, when you see a CC coming your way you should do your best to shoot one off and let your team know the fire work is on the way, that way they can feel safe knowing a large heal is going to keep them up during the cc rotation and focus on stopping the chain of cc on you.

4) RENEWING MIST/MONK 5% STAT BUFF- first off i try to renewing mist off cooldown or at least every 8-12 seconds. Keeping that hot rolling is nice and it helps keep your chi flowing for more envelops and more chi waves (much like expel harm) if a team is spam dispelling your hots and u feel it is pointless to use them, rather than resorting to just spamming surge and probably losing, stay determined and continuously reapply renewing as well as your 5% stat buff. You will not take a mana hit and you will eventually wear them out on dispels (2 piece bonus mana tea on hot dispel). more chi is more healing and more mana!

5) WHEN TO USE WHAT- i try to prioritize chi waving as much as i can as its a great spike heal with no real counter other than the travel time. Other than that try to envelop alot, as its pretty much your gheal and even if its dispelled you should be able to get a few ticks in and its a huge heal. Dont be discouraged by dispels, if you fall into the surge spam trap you will most likely lose anyway. THUNDER TEA SURGE IS GREAT-  use this alot even if the aura mastery effect isnt necessarily needed. chi wave as soon as a cc is coming your way the travel time actually helps in this situation as by the time it reaches your partner your cc should be coming off.

6) GOING BEHIND ENEMY LINES- i always announce in skype when i see an opportunity to land some cc i love the fact that i can "go behind enemy lines" and pretty much lock up any 2 players i choose, between the kick/silence and aoe stun and a "sheep' in paralyze that makes for a lot of ways to annoy an enemy team or healer. even in rbgs you can usually chi wave your team while rolling in ccing as much as you can and rolling out unharmed. Obviously use your judgement as you dont want to open yourself up for a swap, in general u want to evacuate via port or roll as soon as your cc lands

ps i am not trying to claim i am the best but from what i have seen i was probably the only monk with good records in all 3 brackets pre mmr fix, and above 2500 rating in both without queuing into exploiters (i didnt queue 5s in an effort to wait for this whole drama to blowover). Therefore, i feel i can provide some insight into the things which have worked for me. thank you

****share any thing u guys and girls have found to work for you id love to see some constructive posting!****


I will edit this as people continue to ask me questions. I just purchased a new laptop i will begin streaming all of my games on both my shaman and monk this season.

sincerely,
Fadezz

Edited by Moreudirl, 21 November 2012 - 03:09 AM.


#56 Mushi14

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

#1 MONKER
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#57 Pandalol

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:58 AM

View PostMoreudirl, on 21 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:


6) GOING BEHIND ENEMY LINES- i always announce in skype when i see an opportunity to land some cc i love the fact that i can "go behind enemy lines" and pretty much lock up any 2 players i choose, between the kick/silence and aoe stun and a "sheep' in paralyze that makes for a lot of ways to annoy an enemy team or healer. even in rbgs you can usually chi wave your team while rolling in ccing as much as you can and rolling out unharmed. Obviously use your judgement as you dont want to open yourself up for a swap, in general u want to evacuate via port or roll as soon as your cc lands

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#58 eliasG

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

I agree with everything and have the pretty much same view as you when it comes to mana and chi usage.
I cant see them making enveloping mist undispellable like you said, its too strong, for the same reason id like to see it not be spellstealable,
mages feel unkillable with their healers +whatever hots they've stolen off you, id personally like to see a lifebloom like effect with it.

Im pretty sure i remeber on ebta seeing a glyph of expel harm which let you use the heal on friendly targets, would be a nice lil boost.

For the people that dont know/haven' tried.  Glyph of transendence is pretty baller if you find yourself getting trained alot.

#59 Emoeritz

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:26 PM

I like the idea with the returning chi if enveloping mist is dispelled.
The more I think about this, the more it saddens me that something like this isn't implemented into the game yet.

Edited by Emoeritz, 21 November 2012 - 08:27 PM.


#60 Moreudirl

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:16 PM

View PosteliasG, on 21 November 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

For the people that dont know/haven' tried.  Glyph of transendence is pretty baller if you find yourself getting trained alot.

i use that for 5s its pretty slick on blades u can port to anywhere on the map almost and go offensive tp back




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