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Vishas and Hildegard's rogue guide - approved by Reckful


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#21 WildeHilde

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:40 AM

And finally the spell tooltips are working.

#22 Pyonx

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:56 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 06 September 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Blind
Instant control on range. Is no longer dodgeable. It can be used out of stealth. So a rogue is able to control three enemy targets with Sap, Blind and a stun or Garrote.
Not sure if worth to mention since you said "can be used out of stealth" - it also doesn't break Stealth. Not a huge thing, but something.

#23 WildeHilde

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:05 AM

View PostPyonx, on 31 October 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Not sure if worth to mention since you said "can be used out of stealth" - it also doesn't break Stealth. Not a huge thing, but something.

You are right. Will be in the next update.

#24 WildeHilde

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

Talked to Khuna just some minutes ago and he thinks that rogues will be fine balance-wise, but not as fun as they used to be. The poison-proc change is bigger than it may look at first. Currently we have a two second delay for our 4-piece bonus to proc crippling poison after being triggered by an auto-attack.

0: Autoattack hits
1000ms - Paralytic/Mind Numbing on target
2000ms - Crippling on target

If I understand the patch-notes correctly now both procs should be instantly on the target. If an US rogue could confirm this later today I would be thankful.

#25 WildeHilde

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

Working macro to use Revealing Strike and Garrote with one bind and Subterfuge:



#showtooltip [stance:1/2] Garrote; [stance:0] Revealing Strike;
/cast [stance:2] Garrote;
/castsequence [stance:1] reset=3 Garrote, Revealing Strike
/cast [form:0, nocombat] !Stealth; [stance:0, combat] Revealing Strike;


#26 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:04 AM

Tested a bit on the PTR yesterday.
  • Tier 6 is very interesting now.
  • Shuriken Toss builds up combo points through auto attacks (not sure if that's intended) and is our fastest combo point builder, even in melee range.
  • Shuriken Toss with SnD seems to build up paralytic stacks as fast as melee attacks
  • Marked for Death is off the global cooldown, means instant 5 CP Redirects or focus Deadly Throw for a 6 second lockout works
  • Cloak is still on Preparation
  • Subterfuge is pretty decent for regular restealth bursts with 150 energy. With SnD up and Rupture on the target the Cheap Shot / 2x Ambush / Eviscerate combo does quite good damage.
  • We have to overwork all burst sequences if Vigor really stays at 50 energy


#27 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

Just tested and confirmed: Wound Poison and Nerve Strike stack.

#28 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

Shuriken Toss is giving the ranged auto attack buff only from range. Deadly Throw has a minimum range or better said two. The skill fires at about 6 yards, but without the snare debuff, at about 8-10 yards the snare debuff and presumably the interrupt work. Needs more testing.

Posted Image

#29 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

Edit: Couldn't find duel/2v2 partners on the PTR, so I stopped streaming for now.

Broadcasting now some PTR testing. Let me know if you are looking for something specific to test: http://www.twitch.tv/DieWildeHilde

#30 Lieto

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

can we ask questions here?
How much of a dps loss it will be if one goes for sub swords-hemo out of boredom instead of daggers? any idea?

Edited by Lieto, 31 January 2013 - 04:58 PM.

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#31 WildeHilde

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:34 PM

Really depends on too many things for an easy answer. DPS traditionally is measured over a long period of time, but for rogues DPS is pretty much a useless concept in PvP. You want to measure burst damage.

The sword lowers the amount of poison procs tremendously, so you should not play with Paralytic Poison. Secondly you lose Backstab as option.

The math:

Ambush:
Ambush the target, causing 325% weapon damage plus 623 to the target (470.275% plus (623 * 1.447) if a dagger is equipped).  Must be stealthed and behind the target.  Awards 2 combo point.

Dagger:
4861 - 7293 weapon damage
6077 average weapon damage
470.275% weapon damage +   (623 * 1.447) = 28579+ 901 = 29479 base damage excluding stats

Sword
7022 - 10535 weapon damage
8779 average weapon damage
325% weapon damage + 623 = 28532 + 623 = 29154 base damage excluding stats


Means a dagger does about 1,1% more damage with Ambush

Poison procs per second with base attack speed with Sword(MH)/Dagger(Offhand): 0,78 + 0,54 = 1,32 - 1/1,32 = 0,76
Poison procs per second with base attack speed with Daggers: 0,54 + 0,54 = 1,08 - 1/1,08 = 0,93

Means you get about 22% more Wound Poison procs with daggers.

#32 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

We are working on the 5.2 update. I'm currently looking for rogues that would like to share video clips with playstyle things. Certain openers, switches, things are rogue needs to master. We will record some stuff ourselves but I would prefer if stuff from more rogues would be included. Let me know if you have something to share.

Things like when to use step vs. mages, defensive play, switches etc.

#33 WildeHilde

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:42 PM

Updated the stealth test video:



#34 WildeHilde

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:26 AM

Honor Among Thieves procs don't screw up Redirect anymore. Means we can leave the /target focus component out of Redirect macros. Wanted to show that during a macro video and I did not get any combo points on my current target as long as the combo points were on the focus target.

#35 WildeHilde

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

One of the formulas of the rogue pvp burst dps spreadsheet:

=INDIREKT(ADRESSE(SVERWEIS($B4;'Defined Areas'.$A$59:$B$73;2;0);SVERWEIS($G4;'Defined Areas'.$A$47:$B$55;2;0);1; ;"Skills" ))*WENN(INDIREKT(ADRESSE(SVERWEIS($B4;'Defined Areas'.$A$59:$B$73;2;0);65;1;;"Skills"))="dp";'Defined Areas'.K16*(1-(Target.$G$2-'Defined Areas'.$L$16*Target.$G$2-WENN($F$4="true";0,7*Target.$G$2;))/((Target.$G$2-'Defined Areas'.$L$16*Target.$G$2-WENN($F$4="true";0,7*Target.$G$2;))+4037,5*90-317117,5));0)

I think you agree we are working hard on getting it done. Can now give seminars on advanced Excel usage.

#36 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:55 PM

Updated large parts of the guide, but it's not done completely.

#37 Lieto

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:49 PM

I ll share my findings here:

So after seeing pshero playing with swords i decided to kill the dummy. After around 1 hour of testing 30+30 it seems like hemo is actually outperforming stab for me by about 5-10% dps. (prio being snd > rup > evis) It was easier to keep rotation up because cp generation was more fluid and such and it was harder to run out of energy (which some silly rogues like me sometimes do).

To sum it up: if you are tired of using dagger going hemo swords wont hurt your damage most likely

Edited by Lieto, 16 April 2013 - 05:50 PM.

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#38 flubbah

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:54 PM

if you have Reckful's approval, i guess we're all good

#39 WildeHilde

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:59 PM

@Lieto: You lose out on Ambush damage however. The ideal mix damage wise is to keep the hemo dot up and use Backstab, but for combo points hemo is of course better. Also you get less poison procs with swords.

#40 samuser1234

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 16 April 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

@Lieto: You lose out on Ambush damage however. The ideal mix damage wise is to keep the hemo dot up and use Backstab, but for combo points hemo is of course better. Also you get less poison procs with swords.

Swords have a higher proc rate because they are slower, so autoattack procs are the same net chance.

Special attacks inherit the higher proc rate, but you do the same amount of special attacks (or more because hemo is less energy)

As for mind numbing, its a fixed proc rate, so in that case you would proc less poisons.
Although, the difference actually doesn't really matter because the duration of the poison will be refreshed with the lower proc rate anyway.

Edited by samuser1234, 16 April 2013 - 08:15 PM.

#1 rogue trip deepz USA, u mad bro?




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