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5.4 PVP Power and Resilience Guide


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#21 Superkåre

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 04:51 PM

Good analogies and simple explanations with a great use of language. Such excellently written guides are rare treats around these parts. Hats off to you, OP.

#22 Bloobungle

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:42 PM

For some reason I thought I had managed to jump over to relatively useful website while reading this. I didn't realize players went into this much detail analyzing PvP on AJ.

I appreciate the time you put into researching this information. Thumbs up doesn't say enough.

#23 Libyanator

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:48 PM

Nice work
[3:54:02 AM] Obelodalix: When it's full on flop
[3:54:06 AM] Obelodalix: Mine just gets lost
[3:54:09 AM] Obelodalix: in a sea of balls
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#24 Vanguards

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:04 AM

Well done!
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#25 hertzuk

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:32 AM

Just got round to sitting down and reading this, really useful post and very well written.

Posted Image


#26 Eldacar

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:55 PM

Everyone,

Thanks for all the positive feedback, a lot of time and effort went into making this guide and I am happy to see it was so well received.

One change I would like to make note of is that Blizzard has now added a "Unique" tag to the PVP Power on two handed weapons, so fury warriors will no longer be able to reach the absurdly high PVP Power levels they could before. I only used that metric in two graphs and it doesnt affect many players so it's not a big deal for most people, but everyone should be aware of it. I will amend the affected sections and graphs when I do a revision pass on the guide post-release.


View PostHackattack3, on 03 September 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Eldacar,

Thank you for your time and effort in putting this analysis together.  I definitely enjoyed it and it gave me a chance to nerd out for 20 min and take a break from studying :D  It clears up a lot of the misconceptions about the mechanics with pvp power and resilience.  As you said, it is now up to individuals to perform in-game analysis and find the breaking points for their specific classes/specs.  I have two thoughts to add:

1.  Although it looks like resilience scales better than pvp power, I feel pvp power will scale better off "secondary stats".  Resilience and effective health on target will scale primarily with stamina on higher level gear.  PvP power will scale off the primary damage stat (str, int, agil) along with mastery/haste/crit etc.  

2.  I feel stamina is undervalued, especially for classes with passive regeneration based off hp pool.  Example:  an MM hunter can glyph/spec for close to 25% hp regeneration every 10 sec, this should be a factor in a stamina vs resil discussion.

Thanks for the feedback Allyslaya, regarding the first point you brought up it's true that overall damage may scale faster than survivability due to the number of offensive stats you gain from gearing up vs the number of defensive stats. Unfortunately calculating out the overall scaling of damage vs survivability for every class and spec would be enormously complicated and time consuming, so it is something I am unlikely to tackle any time soon.

Regarding the second point you mentioned, I can understand why you would think that would be the case, however % based regeneration does not favor stamina over resilience, it scales with both equally. For example if you have player A with 100k health and 50% damage reduction, he has 200k EH. Player B just has 200K health and 0% damage reduction, still 200k EH. If they both get damaged down to say half life, and pop a 25% regen ability player A will heal for 25k displayed health, and player B will heal for 50k displayed health, but they both healed for 50k EH, so it is effectively the same.

Essentially the player with the biggest EH pool will effectively be healed for the most by these % based heals, so the goal is still to get your EH pool as large as possible. Now because resilience increases your EH so much more effectively via gems and because resilience is significantly better with static-value heals, it is still the clear winner here. But this was still a great point of discussion and I may consider adding something regarding this to the guide in future revisions.

Quote

Could you tell me if PvP power also increases absorbs aswell?
I have been trying to get into a BG on the beta to test this all day without much success, if I am ever able to get an answer I will let you know.

Edited by Eldacar, 04 September 2012 - 09:58 PM.

@EldacarJS - Warcraft PVP Enthusiast, Theorycrafter, and Blizzard PVP Forum MVP


#27 Bailamosx

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:56 PM

Eldacar,

You should be paid for your work.

Sincerely,

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#28 Nearz

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:12 PM

Best Serious Thread Award!

GG

#29 zaeya

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:37 PM

:wub: this post

#30 Wrexton

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:45 AM

Great work, don't see enough of that here :)

#31 Eldacar

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:08 AM

I just finished a full update & revision pass on the guide to reflect the changes made in patch 5.2, let me know if you have any questions, requests, or find any errors!

@EldacarJS - Warcraft PVP Enthusiast, Theorycrafter, and Blizzard PVP Forum MVP


#32 fant0m8

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:01 AM

I think a relevant comparison for most people would be a few particular points of data: the range of resil and PVP power that you can swap between with gems.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as a general rule, the only variation between 2 players that are both using full PVP gear of the same quality (let's say full Tyrannical now) is their gems. I'm assuming no one swaps out their chest enchant, and I don't believe you can reforge any PVP power or resilience?

PVP gear all has 3 yellow, 3 red, and 3 blue slots. With hybrid gems the only gem stats that aren't PVP power or resilience are 240 of your main stat. So the choice boils down to 1080 PVP power or 1080 Resil (720 from the 1 color gems and 360 from the red slot gems, the 3rd slot adds equally to both stats).

Can you do some calculations on these 4 data points similar to your last graph that combines the 2 stats (I don't know what the total values would be, hopefully you do):

Damage % done to full (+1080) PVP power as full PVP Power?

Damage % done to full PVP power as full (+1080) Resilience?

Damage % done to full Resilience as full Resilience?

Damage % done to full Resilience as full PVP power?

Edited by fant0m8, 07 March 2013 - 05:02 AM.

Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#33 Salutations

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:10 AM

full jcj power i guess then, there is enough resilience on gear.

Edited by Salutations, 07 March 2013 - 08:10 AM.


#34 Medge

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

View PostHyuru, on 03 September 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

im too dumb for this therorycrafting stuff

You're not alone.

#35 dionim

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

Really good job man, you deserve a donation button! haha

#36 Official

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:06 PM

My brain hurts.

+1 :D

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#37 Iniciate

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:20 PM

Guide straight out of Book of Konrad just for you bois i lay the bomb down

if u die gem resiliance if you dont die u win,
if u never kill, you dont do endless cc chain, (u play it wrong)

book of konrad buy it now

#38 Asmodean

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:56 AM

Great work Eldacar, much appreciated!!

I already posted it in the comments of the news article, but I will repost it here.

If anybody is interested in a calculater for the damage reduction by resilience as of patch 5.2, you will find one below:
http://www.workupload.com/file/PtATvFJ

Just enter your resilience value, it will calculate the damage reduction percentage.
Posted Image

#39 Violatrix

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:25 AM

Hi again, Eldacar.  Thanks so much for your ongoing contributions.  I was wondering:  do you have any plans to do a similar workup for patch 5.3?  I know most people will move away from resilience altogether, but it might be nice, if only for academic purposes, to see how resilience scales relative to pvp power, primary stats, and stamina after the changes to resilience on gear, base resilience, and available resilience from gemming.
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#40 Eldacar

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostViolatrix, on 12 May 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

Hi again, Eldacar.  Thanks so much for your ongoing contributions.  I was wondering:  do you have any plans to do a similar workup for patch 5.3?  I know most people will move away from resilience altogether, but it might be nice, if only for academic purposes, to see how resilience scales relative to pvp power, primary stats, and stamina after the changes to resilience on gear, base resilience, and available resilience from gemming.

Yes I will be updating the guide for 5.3 to reflect all the changes to both stats that are coming with it. I have been waiting for things to roughly finalize on the PTR before doing the workup.

@EldacarJS - Warcraft PVP Enthusiast, Theorycrafter, and Blizzard PVP Forum MVP





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