Jump to content

Photo

Preferred CC Chain


  • Please log in to reply
143 replies to this topic

#141 Molp

Molp
  • Members
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 278
  • Talents:

Posted 06 November 2007 - 02:06 AM

thumbs up, for me the term is dead, it's loaded with way to many meanings ranging from "shit, he kicked my butt because he played so f*ing good" to "hell, I lack utility against him in certain situations"

let's start inventing a new term for the latter meaning. any suggestions?


Um, no. The term is extremely well defined. When you win it is because you are better than the other team. When you lose it is because they play a no-skill overpowered combo.

So, the definition is

Overpowered = whatever the last team that beat me plays.
  • 0

#142 Ridzik

Ridzik
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • EU-Anub'arak
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 1,030
  • Talents: Elemental

Posted 06 November 2007 - 02:17 AM

Hmm I'm not convinced. See Buena uses it in a more elaborate fashion, obviously not aware of all the misunderstandings he is provoking by using the term 'OP' which really everybody seems to have its one defenition(s) of.

Again you are comparing yourself only to paladins and only in 5v5. Paladins are also OP, and are clearly the best 5v5 healers, while druids are clearly the best in other brackets.


He surely doesn't intend to say "whatever the last team who beat me plays". Hmm but I recall a broadly shared opinion from this thread that 99% of all viable 5v5 setups include one paladin, so what you say might as well be right since the chance for the last team who succeeded over Buena's 5s running one paladin is very high. Things just got more complex.. :confused:
  • 0

#143 Taffy

Taffy
  • Members
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mug'thol
  • Vengeance
  • Posts: 175
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 06 November 2007 - 03:08 AM

yeah... its like it starts with someone trying to explain that a class has an ability or function that is situationally uncounterable, then ends with the term being applied broadly to the entire class with no context.

then over time it just gets applied to things that may not be uncounterable, but have a tendency to succeed. is shadow priest + warlock underpowered because they can't make it into glad territory anymore? no, it's just a stupid, cheesey duo. so on the same token, is paladin overpowered in 5v just because they make a strong showing? i would say they certainly have their advantages... mostly ease of use... but they are _certainly_ counterable.

i personally would like to keep the term associated with something that is a problem that needs to be fixed. something that is uncounterable. with this definition, saying druid + paladin is overpowered => buff priest/shaman is stupid. if druids and paladins are situationally uncounterable (not just to the other healing classes) then they're the ones that should be tuned.

but that's not the case, is it? so maybe the answer is to buff priests and shaman? (i dono, i'd say priests have been the unsung success story of arena, making an extremely strong showing in every bracket, using every spec. probably the single most successful class in wow, given this consideration) shaman are strong in multiple specs, mostly in the 5v bracket... but to me are a bit of a 1-trick pony. go go bloodlust!

so yeah. easier just to try to use different terminology, and stick with context.
  • 0

#144 Molp

Molp
  • Members
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 278
  • Talents:

Posted 06 November 2007 - 03:20 AM

Hmm I'm not convinced. See Buena uses it in a more elaborate fashion, obviously not aware of all the misunderstandings he is provoking by using the term 'OP' which really everybody seems to have its one defenition(s) of.



He surely doesn't intend to say "whatever the last team who beat me plays". Hmm but I recall a broadly shared opinion from this thread that 99% of all viable 5v5 setups include one paladin, so what you say might as well be right since the chance for the last team who succeeded over Buena's 5s running one paladin is very high. Things just got more complex.. :confused:


As a more serious answer, the issue at hand is that research has shown that it is 12 times as hard to change perception than it is to confirm it. That is, for each instance where your preformed opinion is confirmed you need 12 instances where it is proven wrong. So if you belive that class X is overpowered you need 12 instances of the class underperforming to counter one instance where the class outperformed.

That is why I have been harping on numbers. They are more reliable than your perceptions. Example (this is an example to make a point not a statement of game balance).

12 games of warrior/palls vs warrior/druid. Warrior/druid tries the "CC of doom" all 12 times. 11 times it fails and the druid goes splat. One time it works. Is that overpowered? To the uninterested observer the answer is clearly no. But to someone who believes that the CC of doom is overpowered, this is actually confirmation that it is, because in our minds, eleven counterexamples are not enough to outweigh one example that supports our beliefs.

Because humans think that way you cannot use perception and opinions to judge balance. The only opinions you can use are those of neutral observers. Problem is, a neutral observer is unlikely to know enough about arenas to balance them. So the only thing you are left with are numbers.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<