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Preferred CC Chain


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#1 Davincee

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:13 AM

What is your preferred CC chain on a healer?

I usually cyclone -> feral charge -> bash (wait for the miss to pop up) -> cyclone and hold on 3rd cyclone unless its necessary.
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#2 Druds

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 09:09 AM

if i start in cat, stun, rake, leave cat, cyclone, cyclone, feral charge, stun, go cat and maim, (cyclone, cyclone)

I guess thats what i do.
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#3 Unraveller

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 01:34 PM

What is your preferred CC chain on a healer?

I usually cyclone -> feral charge -> bash (wait for the miss to pop up) -> cyclone and hold on 3rd cyclone unless its necessary.


That's a very poor use of diminishing returns. The diminishing returns resets at 18 seconds regardless of the duration of cyclone. So:

Quoted Method:
Cyclone (6) -> Feral Charage (4) -> Bash (4) -> Cyclone (3) = 17 seconds of lockdown, but your diminishing returns reseting on your 2nd cyclone, it's at: 18 - 3 = 15 seconds before you can start this routine over again.

Optimal Method:
Cyclone (6) -> Cyclone (3) -> Feral Charge (4) -> Bash (4) = 17 seconds of lockdown of 24 seconds. Diminishing returns will start ticking on the second Cyclone, reseting to 18 seconds. 18 - 3 - 4 - 4 = 7 seconds before you can start the chain over again in 7 seconds... (not including the bash).



With method #2, you allow the enemy to have 7 seconds of freedom (or 11) every 24 seconds. That's 29% activity... With method #1you allow the enemy 53% activity. If you chain it properly, it is out of hand...
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#4 Neajane

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 01:42 PM

Nobody sees anything wrong with theoretically allowing someone else only 29% activity, whilst healing your teamate? ;P
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#5 Peck

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 03:34 PM

Nobody sees anything wrong with theoretically allowing someone else only 29% activity, whilst healing your teamate? ;P


Not anymore than I see a problem with allowing a warrior to have 0% activity indefinately. Druid CC FTW.

Oh, and I usually Cyclone/cyclone/cyclone/feral charge/bash... Dependant on the situation I will root a healer too if their teammate is too far away to be healed. Even if they can dispell it, I'm chain casting it just waiting for the DR on cyclone to finish to hit em with it again... As a resto druid I rarely expend the mana to shift to Cat and build up a Maim, although it would facilitate waiting for the 7ish or so seconds that Cyclone is on DR after Feral Charge and Bash.
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#6 Unraveller

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 06:47 PM

Hmmm....

Cyclone (6) -> Feral Charge (4) -> Bash (4) = 4 seconds uncontrolled, when you include the time delay on Feral Charge, thats closer to 3 seconds... So, let's try this then...

Cyclone (6) -> FC (4) -> Bash (4) -> Warstomp (1) -> wait (1) -> Cyclone (6) -> Cyclone (3) -> Cyclone (1.5) -> FC (4) = 31 /32 seconds of controlled.

Now THAT'S a healer lockdown...
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#7 Duraeas

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:02 PM

Nobody sees anything wrong with theoretically allowing someone else only 29% activity, whilst healing your teamate? ;P


Yes, its absolutely retarded. A Druid can CC me longer (while healing) than a Mage. I'm surprised none of these people who know how to do so are 2200+, since you can basically lock out every Paladin in the game like that.
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#8 Unraveller

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:27 PM

Yes, its absolutely retarded. A Druid can CC me longer (while healing) than a Mage. I'm surprised none of these people who know how to do so are 2200+, since you can basically lock out every Paladin in the game like that.


Just rerolled my 2251 2v2... Original members had like 500 games played and i had 60 (from 1900->2350 lol).

SL lock was definitely EZmode, I'm going to try with a warrior now.
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#9 Druds

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:37 PM

Yes, its absolutely retarded. A Druid can CC me longer (while healing) than a Mage. I'm surprised none of these people who know how to do so are 2200+, since you can basically lock out every Paladin in the game like that.


SoJ on me and get your warrior to skillstun me and byebye litle druid.
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#10 Duraeas

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:41 PM

In 2.3 you're going to have an additional (up to) 15% DR against Warriors. In Bear form, he isn't going to kill you. All it takes is someone to keep the Warrior off you for 1.x seconds to cast Cyclone and you can heal to full. Not really anything I can do as a Paladin about it.
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#11 Molp

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:04 PM

Nobody sees anything wrong with theoretically allowing someone else only 29% activity, whilst healing your teamate? ;P


What is your warrior or warlock partner doing while I pull the 20 second CC of doom? If the warrior is on me I will be dead before I am done with the CC chain. With a lock I will be mana drained to oblivion. And lets not forget spell interrupts.

Whenever I have tried the "chain CC pally while killing the warrior" thing I got smashed to pieces. It sounds much better in theory than in reality.
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#12 Neajane

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:04 PM

Ha, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved FFF to a base talent and feral charge to 21 >.>

Honestly, Resto druid healing capacity isn't all that great, its the combination of Hamstring + Travel form for 2's, and arena water.

And as a paladin or another healer if you put yourself in a position to allow a feral charging druid to escape, or actually interrupt your heal that's your fault.

The Resto change is decent for helping their numbers in 5's, essentially what probably would be best is blizzard could modify 1-2 things for 2's:

1. Increase the mana cost of travel form slightly

2. Increase the DR reset timer for CC by 2-3 seconds, right now its pretty short for classes without shared DR CC. (Shared diminishing returns would cripple druids, like Mages/Locks getting the nerfbat sadly already)

3. Move feral charge up the tree, possibly?

All the QQ about form to form shapeshifting is ignorance, its something that's already possible, and has been possible with /cancelform for a while. Most druids just don't bother to use a macro.

Resto didn't need the buff though, feral/balance could have used that type of talent to much more effect.
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#13 Molp

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:07 PM

3. Move feral charge up the tree, possibly?


Only if shapeshifting removes JoJ.
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#14 Neajane

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:07 PM

What is your warrior or warlock partner doing while I pull the 20 second CC of doom? If the warrior is on me I will be dead before I am done with the CC chain. With a lock I will be mana drained to oblivion. And lets not forget spell interrupts.

Whenever I have tried the "chain CC pally while killing the warrior" thing I got smashed to pieces. It sounds much better in theory than in reality.


Its fine in theory and practice, perhaps your partner is DC'd? Because I for one, know my partner is being harried by your partner during this CC :]

I simply asked if anyone thought there was something wrong with a deep healing specc'd class having this much CC.

If the warrior is on me I will be dead before I am done with the CC chain.


And sorry, but this is just false, 20 seconds isn't enough to kill me or you at the 2.3k+ level and you know it.
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#15 Neajane

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:08 PM

Only if shapeshifting removes JoJ.


JoJ isn't a movement impairing effect.
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#16 Druds

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:08 PM

All the QQ about form to form shapeshifting is ignorance, its something that's already possible, and has been possible with /cancelform for a while. Most druids just don't bother to use a macro.



No you still used 1-2 sec depending on your lagg etc.

PS: JoJ should atleast be removed with pvp trinket.
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#17 Molp

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:11 PM

And sorry, but this is just false, 20 seconds isn't enough to kill me or you at the 2.3k+ level and you know it.


To chain CC I have to be standing still in caster for a substantial amount of time. The warrior will intercept following my feral charge to the pally (breaking the CC chain by the way). During that time the warrior is free to wail on me, and pummel one cyclone in the process. Not to mention that your warrior will have plenty of rage from getting beat on. And yes I can easily die in 20 seconds to a 100 rage warrior when in caster form.

Yes, the chain CC of doom can work, but it requires the moment to be right. When the warrior is near me the moment is not right. People make it sound like a druid can just walk into the arena, CC the healer and have the match be over in 20 seconds.
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#18 Neajane

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:12 PM

No you still used 1-2 sec depending on your lagg etc.

PS: JoJ should atleast be removed with pvp trinket.


How does JoJ cause you to lose control of your character again?
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#19 Molp

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:14 PM

JoJ isn't a movement impairing effect.


My speed in human form: 109%
My speed in travel: 161%
My speed in bear: 125%

My speed with JoJ: 100%.
Speed of the warrior chasing me: 109%.

No movement impairment my ass. Yes the spell was clearly designed to counter druids. Feral charge is meant to counter JoJ. You cannot take away our only counter to JoJ. Not unless you want to turn warrior/pally into an auto loss for druids.
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#20 Neajane

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:19 PM

To chain CC I have to be standing still in caster for a substantial amount of time. The warrior will intercept following my feral charge to the pally (breaking the CC chain by the way). During that time the warrior is free to wail on me, and pummel one cyclone in the process. Not to mention that your warrior will have plenty of rage from getting beat on. And yes I can easily die in 20 seconds to a 100 rage warrior when in caster form.

Yes, the chain CC of doom can work, but it requires the moment to be right. When the warrior is near me the moment is not right. People make it sound like a druid can just walk into the arena, CC the healer and have the match be over in 20 seconds.


I didn't say any of this.

You DO have at least the *OPTION* of "CC of Doom" as you put it.

I'm just trying to point out that the other 3 healing classes have no such combination of options in addition to being able to heal comparably to the other 3 classes.

To chain CC I have to be standing still in caster for a substantial amount of time.


1.4 seconds?

The warrior will intercept following my feral charge to the pally (breaking the CC chain by the way).


The warrior must intercept to you to reach you if you played correctly (read: Don't stand next to him). Meaning feral charge is still an out, even assuming that the healer you charge is a paladin who has joj queue'd. I will admit a good healer will put you in danger doing this, but once again no other healer has such an interupt that acts as an out.

During that time the warrior is free to wail on me, and pummel one cyclone in the process.


1.4 seconds, lol wut. Wait for MS, he'll be on GCD, then cyclone.

And yes I can easily die in 20 seconds to a 100 rage warrior when in caster form.


Maybe if you stood there and did none of what was prescribed above for 20 seconds.


My original question to other druids still stands, don't you find it a little unbalanced that the 3 other healing classes lack this comprehensive of CC?
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