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Guild Wars 2 | The 'Endgame'

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#61 Except

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:00 AM

View PostBaklivaX, on 18 August 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

WoW dps meters were fine, same as gear score, it's just the community that was/is retarded.
I definitely can't agree with you on that one. Gearscore was a bad tool to start with, the fact that it got miss-used only enhanced the effect.  I mean, let's look at it objectively. What was included in the Gearscore? Basically it was ilvl of all items combined together in order to give you a number which was supposed to represent how good your gear is, right? Well, it didn't. It didn't give you any information whatsoever about either gems or enchants. To make matters worse, it gave no identification of what type of gear (PvE/PvP) you were wearing. For some people that was a problem, although I can't imagine how retarded you have to be not to inspect someone before inviting them into the raid.

My point is, you can't only blame community for the mess. However, they are guilty for the most part.
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#62 Drakaari

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:19 PM

Back on the subject of "End Game"...

It's very obvious at this point that it has to be looked at different than "most mmos" because this game is not going to be "like most mmos"... But, lots of people are going to be coming to atleast try GW2 from the perspective of "most mmos", and as such will be looking for aspects of what they know.

It seems like Dynamic Events in the highest level zones, will be the closest thing to the "standard mmo endgame", and something I've yet to be able to find an answer for, even if it's just opinion or from a limited resource base of Beta not always having enough people, but...

What is the upper limit of Dynamic Event Scaling? And what all changes as larger and larger groups of player join a dynamic event, like if a large guild was to schedule a "raid" and have a few hundred members show up to participate in a single dynamic event, both the more general questy type event of gather stuff or killing small enemies in mass quantities, and "world boss" style events.

Do you get increasing amounts of Karma, XP and Coin? Up to a certain limit? Higher Quality gear or just more reward items? Both? Up to a limit?

Thanks in advance for the input.  =)

#63 Kaylos

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:45 PM

I believe each player gets their own loot table.  So if you kill a mob that give 2-5 copper and either a stick, a rock, and mud, and another player joins in and helps you kill it, you could both get up to 5 copper and one of the 3 mentioned items.  I believe it works the same for DE bosses.  The scaling theorectically is supposed to scale so that you put in the same effort in a small group or a large raid, so you get the same loot table.  Of course reports were that a lot of stuff was impossible alone, hard in groups, and a push over in zergs.  So its yet to be seen how that pans out.

#64 bookworm438

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:18 PM

View PostDrakaari, on 19 August 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Back on the subject of "End Game"...

It's very obvious at this point that it has to be looked at different than "most mmos" because this game is not going to be "like most mmos"... But, lots of people are going to be coming to atleast try GW2 from the perspective of "most mmos", and as such will be looking for aspects of what they know.

It seems like Dynamic Events in the highest level zones, will be the closest thing to the "standard mmo endgame", and something I've yet to be able to find an answer for, even if it's just opinion or from a limited resource base of Beta not always having enough people, but...

What is the upper limit of Dynamic Event Scaling? And what all changes as larger and larger groups of player join a dynamic event, like if a large guild was to schedule a "raid" and have a few hundred members show up to participate in a single dynamic event, both the more general questy type event of gather stuff or killing small enemies in mass quantities, and "world boss" style events.

I believe that the vast majority of the events scales up to 100 players. There could be a different scale for large events like The Shatterer.

Quote

Do you get increasing amounts of Karma, XP and Coin? Up to a certain limit? Higher Quality gear or just more reward items? Both? Up to a limit?

Thanks in advance for the input.  =)
No you don't. Every event has the same levels of participation, bronze, silver, and gold. What defines bronze, silver, and gold may change depending on the event. You will also gain rewards appropriate to your level. So if you're a level 80 doing a level 20 event, you'll gain rewards for your level.
Finally, the events itself only reward gold, xp, and karma. Elite events such as the Shatterer may have a chest drop at the end (if you succeed) that will have loot inside. As Kaylos said, every player pulls from the their own loot table for loot drops. So player x can't affect what you get for loot or ninja loot from you.

#65 Drakaari

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:29 PM

View Postbookworm438, on 19 August 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

I believe that the vast majority of the events scales up to 100 players. There could be a different scale for large events like The Shatterer.


No you don't. Every event has the same levels of participation, bronze, silver, and gold. What defines bronze, silver, and gold may change depending on the event. You will also gain rewards appropriate to your level. So if you're a level 80 doing a level 20 event, you'll gain rewards for your level.
Finally, the events itself only reward gold, xp, and karma. Elite events such as the Shatterer may have a chest drop at the end (if you succeed) that will have loot inside. As Kaylos said, every player pulls from the their own loot table for loot drops. So player x can't affect what you get for loot or ninja loot from you.

Awesome, thank you for the concise post.  =)   100 players is plenty fair, coming from WoW, i can't help but think of an "active guild" as being around 25-30 people consistantly being on and wanted to do something with a group of that size, so if 100 is the upper limit, that'd take the equivalent of 3-4 "WoW Sized" raid guilds to max out.

Also, have all gethering nodes and all loot tables completely player specific is probably the best thing to happen to online multiplayer rpgs, can't say it was ever fun seeing a mining node pop up and frantically having to drop everything i was doing to try and race to be the first there.

#66 bookworm438

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:09 AM

View PostDrakaari, on 19 August 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Awesome, thank you for the concise post.  =)   100 players is plenty fair, coming from WoW, i can't help but think of an "active guild" as being around 25-30 people consistantly being on and wanted to do something with a group of that size, so if 100 is the upper limit, that'd take the equivalent of 3-4 "WoW Sized" raid guilds to max out.

Also, have all gethering nodes and all loot tables completely player specific is probably the best thing to happen to online multiplayer rpgs, can't say it was ever fun seeing a mining node pop up and frantically having to drop everything i was doing to try and race to be the first there.

Yeah I love that loot is player specific. I actually like that I can work alongside other people without viewing them as competition or pests. In fact, I love having someone working alongside so that if I go down, I have someone there to res me.

#67 Kaylos

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:35 AM

Pleyer specific loot is pretty epic.  No loot drama, no master looter, and no rolling on other classes loot or for an off-spec.

Given the way they are doing dungeons, it probably would have worked in a Raid to.  Almost a shame they don't plan on doing them at this point.

#68 wuzzle

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:04 AM

To come back to the "PvP-equip is purely cosmetical" thing:
I for my part am in love with that policy. The encounters are determined by skill and composition, momentum and timing, builds and traits. Awesome! That's competitive and most of all: fair.

That being said I also know people who think entirely different. I've got a good friend that says:"If I spend time with this game I want to reach a point where I have such a good gear that I can easily crush noobs or alt chars. I think one deserves it if he has spent enough time farming gear!"
While I don't agree with this statement and obviously he is not one of the better PvP-players but more of an top end casual, this voice needs hearing. He is simply not one who can dive in deep into speccs and forums and competitive PvP in general. This could be a problem in terms of playernumbers since a lot of people think this way. It's a wrecked mentality and one can say that wanting to beat people with playtime and not with skill is an unfair and illwitted approach, but they have a point in terms of them playing/paying the game or not.

On the other hand I don't know if I want those people to be part of the GW2 community anyway...

#69 bookworm438

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:35 PM

View Postwuzzle, on 20 August 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

To come back to the "PvP-equip is purely cosmetical" thing:
I for my part am in love with that policy. The encounters are determined by skill and composition, momentum and timing, builds and traits. Awesome! That's competitive and most of all: fair.

That being said I also know people who think entirely different. I've got a good friend that says:"If I spend time with this game I want to reach a point where I have such a good gear that I can easily crush noobs or alt chars. I think one deserves it if he has spent enough time farming gear!"
While I don't agree with this statement and obviously he is not one of the better PvP-players but more of an top end casual, this voice needs hearing. He is simply not one who can dive in deep into speccs and forums and competitive PvP in general. This could be a problem in terms of playernumbers since a lot of people think this way. It's a wrecked mentality and one can say that wanting to beat people with playtime and not with skill is an unfair and illwitted approach, but they have a point in terms of them playing/paying the game or not.

On the other hand I don't know if I want those people to be part of the GW2 community anyway...

Unfortunately, people who want gear progression in PvP probably won't like sPvP in GW2. That's not to say gear doesn't matter, but you have access to the same gear player y does. It's up to you to stat properly for your given spec. However, if you play the game for a while, you should be able to crush "noobs", merely because you should know more about the game. Take a look at the PvP competition with Anet at conventions such as PAX Prime. Anet completely crushes people because everyone else is a "noob".

#70 ShakeGW2

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:40 PM

This game is a hardcore pvper and casual pvers game. If you're looking for any kind of PvE progression, challenging bosses and instances, etc then you should probably stick to WoW. I don't mean to sound rude, but WoW raiders will not find what they're looking for here. If you need more than the content itself to incentivize play, guild wars 2 is not for you.

Arenanet has been up front about their belief that carrot on a stick mechanics aren't necessary in this genre. They think they they can build a succesful game that has gameplay that is fun enough intrinsically that additional incentives aren't necessary to encourage players to participate.

If you come into guild wars 2 expecting to play PvE 3 or 4 hours a day you will be bored in a month. leveling will be fast in this game, dungeons will be challenging but only for so long. I don't think Anet will produce new content fast enough to satiate hardcore PvE fans. If you aren't interested in PvP then you really need to approach this game casually and without the preconceptions we attach to most MMOs. If you approach it with those preconceptions you will find the game boring in no time.

#71 treeqt

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:14 AM

View PostShakeGW2, on 20 August 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

This game is a hardcore pvper and casual pvers game. If you're looking for any kind of PvE progression, challenging bosses and instances, etc then you should probably stick to WoW.

And why is that? From what I can tell the dungeons are very much challenging and thereby offer PvE progression.
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#72 wuzzle

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:36 AM

I understood that once you're high enough you can participate in some kind of open world raid. Where you push a streak of events further and further and meet the occasional "Raidboss" where everybody who's around can participate in. If it works how it sounds I find that a hell more intriguing than WoW raids. You don't need the exact number of X Players with the exact number of X Classes with X roles just to raid. You just do it. You don't need to plan out raids as you do in wow. You don't have to leave half of the guild athome because "the raid is full and today we want to progress". It's rather a "We want progress, all people should gather!"

I heard that there will be this island. With constant events flowing in both directions that you have to push to the one side or fall back. With bosses and whatnot. I find this style of "Raiding" quite cool even for "hardcoreraiders".
The only thing that may appear "worse" for a few hardcores  is that they have to let the noobs participate aswell... ;)

#73 Windwrath1

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:49 AM

View Postwuzzle, on 21 August 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

I understood that once you're high enough you can participate in some kind of open world raid. Where you push a streak of events further and further and meet the occasional "Raidboss" where everybody who's around can participate in. If it works how it sounds I find that a hell more intriguing than WoW raids. You don't need the exact number of X Players with the exact number of X Classes with X roles just to raid. You just do it. You don't need to plan out raids as you do in wow. You don't have to leave half of the guild athome because "the raid is full and today we want to progress". It's rather a "We want progress, all people should gather!"

As far as I understand it, yes, this is how it works. And yes, it's better than raids IMO. :)




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