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#21 Lyr_1337

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:26 PM

View PostLufi, on 11 August 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

3. Are there any unique but irreplaceable abilities/skills for certain professions that will make this profession "must have" in the team

There are many unqiue skills, which support your group in different ways, but they aren't that strong that its a must have to take them with you. Overall you won't have to take a special setup or class in your team to be viable just for one unique skill. You will just have to take a look to your whole team, creating synergies and things like roamer, supporter and damage dealer will be a must have. Not a certain class or skill.

Edited by Lyr_1337, 11 August 2012 - 07:28 PM.


#22 Powerr_Matchless

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:27 PM

[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']
2. Do you think lack of diminishing returns on current abilities will promote stacking certain classes (5x necro traited for fears, or guardians).
[/quote]

The way all the different roles are needed on conquest make doing this initially very difficult.  Every class has multiple weaknesses and stacking too much of anything leaves you very vulnerable to enemies exploiting that.  The nature of the maps is that you are almost never going to be in 5v5 team fights so building a comp based on that is fallacy.  

While no definitive role setup has been made.  You need to ensure you have 1 or 2 roamers or roaming capable classes, as well as a mixture of classes with pure damage, cc, and rez/stomp support.  A team of all guardians would lack chill, poison, and other forms of control as well as making any attempt at condition damage a failure since there is no form of bleeds.  

In the end, you lose out on more than you gain.

Edited by Powerr_Matchless, 11 August 2012 - 07:27 PM.


#23 Lowell

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:28 PM

[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']4. Looking at current abilities do you see any potential candidate for "its gonna be hard to balance", not sure how to describe it (smoke bomb equivalent)[/quote]

Yes, mostly Thief abilties. It is the only profession without any cooldown on its weapon spells, which means that any TINY change in numbers and/or traits can result in a new "only 1 button spam" build. That's why it's one of the hardest professions to balance ever created.

Other than that, any very strong healing skill (Guardian book) or even short cooldown spells that provide heal but are a weapon skill/trait is dangerous. If you want an example, the sustain/damage potential ratio any good Elementalist player has is over the top at the moment in my opinion.

Edited by Lowell, 11 August 2012 - 07:33 PM.


#24 itsHatorade

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:28 PM

[quote name='Thadcastle' timestamp='1344712834' post='3742505']
Edit: Sorry for late reply, I kept getting an error in which I could not post URLs until I made 5 posts. I didn't have any URLs in my post and was confused :( eventually I turned off emoticons and it worked.
[/quote]

Haha, no worries I had the same problem.

Another question, which map do you guys think produces the best games currently and why? Similarly which map needs the most work and why?

#25 crazieh

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:29 PM

What do you feel like the skill-cap is in Guild Wars 2?

Would a super good player stand out clearly from just "good" players? I feel like in WoW your individual skill can easily be overshadowed by inbalance, gear, etc. I'm interested to know if being especially good can get you very far, or if teamplay is more important, etc.

Will there be any rating system like in WoW? I've heard there's probably going to be 5v5, will that have a rated ladder etc? Is it likely they'll add 3v3 to it after release?

Thanks!

Edited by crazieh, 11 August 2012 - 07:29 PM.


#26 ValorLotD

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:30 PM

[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']

1. How strong is synergy between professions? Like class A that strongly relies (or is even unplayable w/o) on class B (warrior/healer in wow for example), or CC synergy (mage/rogue etc).

[/quote]

GW2 has focused heavily on trying to create synergy between classes by allowing combos that grant boons or additional damage to attacks/spells.  Those combos though are a smaller factor on teams than is expected.  That is somewhat of a rabbit trail though, so back to your question.

In team fights, any class can be built as a solid solo option to fight 1v1.  This is great for hotjoins, but when it comes to team fights, classes are being built to compliment each other.  If a warrior who was built for a team attempted to try and kill a thief that was built for 1v1 fights, the warrior would more than likely never be able to kill the thief due to the escapability of the thief.  In these situations, if the warrior was focused on CC with a spike of 100 blades or eviscerate accompanied with an ele to provide pressure damage, the thief would go down far more quickly.

GW2 definitely relies heavily on movement.  Being fast equates to living and for melee, they can easily be kited if they do not have support.
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#27 Syia

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:34 PM

@Izkimar
What are your thoughts on elementalist as a primary damage dealer right now? I've played several hundred games on elementalist now. I think that their mobility and ability to do a lot of burst is great for finishing fights, but they're poor for engaging 1v1 against a plethora of specs. I see this primarily due to elementalist having low hp/low armor and unable to fight on the node in tPvP when focused. I've had success playing the roamer role (similar to Lowell) and finishing the last 50-60% of a player's health, but when it comes to a fresh engagement I feel that elementalist don't bring much group support. For example, Lowell provides venomous auras in a team fight. The elementalist as a damage dealer provides no real group utility besides the Elemental Attunement trait. As double arcane attack builds, it seems impossible to stomp/res without mist form unless you want to die. I've tried Armor of Earth + Mist Form + Soldier's Amulet variants and the sustained damage is okay, but, on a node warriors/rangers have better stats both offensively and defensively.

I believe:

A support elementalist provides ample condition removal, healing, moderate damage, and boon spreading.
A damage-dealing elementalist can branch into pure damage and finish off already low players, or build around Soldier's Amulet providing good sustained damage with fairly decent stomping/rallying (Armor of Earth + Mist Form).

Yet, the damage-dealing doesn't seem all that great when there is enough group swiftness that the roamer role is mitigated.

Edited by Syia, 11 August 2012 - 07:38 PM.


#28 Guy_With_A_Question

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:36 PM

Would you like to see any other map types made for spvp? Maybe CTF for example.

#29 Izkimar

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:36 PM

[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']
1. How strong is synergy between professions? Like class A that strongly relies (or is even unplayable w/o) on class B (warrior/healer in wow for example), or CC synergy (mage/rogue etc).[/quote]

Synergy is very strong between professions, but not in a total dependent type of way.  It isn't like the examples you posted, instead you can function on your own well, but you benefit greatly from different Professions being with you.  You definitely want to bring a good mix of the Professions, because they all have something different and unique they can bring to the table, but there is no situation of I need this Profession to be paired with this other Prof. or else it will not work.  It's a lot more loose then that, which is really good imo.

[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']
2. Do you think lack of diminishing returns on current abilities will promote stacking certain classes (5x necro traited for fears, or guardians).[/quote]

Every form of hard CC in the game can be countered by stability, except for fear.  However, a 5 Necro team would really lack a lot of diversity and would be punished for doing so.  Also, it is important to note, that there aren't many moments that it will be 5v5, 4v4 is a lot more common then that, but the most common team fight is usually 2v2 or 3v3.  So putting all your eggs into one basket being small duration fears could be very harmful for your team.

[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']
3. Are there any unique but irreplaceable abilities/skills for certain professions that will make this profession "must have" in the team[/quote]

I will say this, each Profession is so unique in what it brings, that it almost feels like you don't ever want to stack Professions.  Now, there are some good set ups with a few stacked Professions don't get me wrong, but that usually revolves around gimmicks.  The only thing in the game that I would say is a must have right now is Venom Sharing Thief.  That was the one broken thing I ran into that I believe was a must have for every team.  Other then that, it was more about fulfilling roles well.

[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']
4. Looking at current abilities do you see any potential candidate for "its gonna be hard to balance", not sure how to describe it (smoke bomb equivalent)[/quote]

Not really, so far it seems that everything we've ran into if broken can be fixed with mostly numerical tweaks which is very easy.


[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']
5. Do you think having "combos" that different professions can do together adds another layer of skill cap, or is it going to be something obvious and used on daily basics[/quote]

Yes it does imo, obviously some combo field effects are stronger than others right now.  However, when they all get balanced out appropriately it is definitely going to add another layer of depth that the top teams will surely utilize.



[quote name='Lufi' timestamp='1344712699' post='3742502']
6. If it's not somethign confidential for your current team XD, whats the pattern for picking up professions to your team
[/quote]

It's all about fulfilling roles man, you look at a role you need to be filled in a certain map, and then you figure what you think would be best with the player assigned to that role for that map and for the match up you will have.

#30 kwlpp

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:39 PM

@Lufi

[b][size=3][color=#000000][font=Arial]1. How strong is synergy between professions? Like class A that strongly relies (or is even unplayable w/o) on class B (warrior/healer in wow for example), or CC synergy (mage/rogue etc).[/font][/color][/size][/b]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]Due to the structure of the game with breaking trinity and making all classes self-sufficient, direct synergy between classes isn’t as strong when compared to other games. Instead, you simply look at the weapon skills or utilities that will synergize towards your goal. For example, the most common build that was being thrown around on the warrior for the BWEs is that Frenzy -> Bull Rush -> 100b build. Normally, you need to land the Bull Rush to actually get off the 100b. However, you can actually free up the utility slot on your bar for another skill, like Balanced Stance, and simply have ANYONE give you the CC. There are tons of ways to do this that aren’t restricted by profession either or help. All professions, including yourself, have access to immobilize or a stun, it’s a matter of setting up your bars to work within the framework of your team.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]In regards to something like CC synergy instead of reliance synergy, some professions simply have more access to certain aspects of the game. In theory, a double warrior would probably give you the most CC possible between 2 professions, but is it good? Depends if you can get away with running 2 hammers and 2 mace/shields in a 3v3 or 4v4 team fight. There’s a lot of counter-play and trade-offs in this game, and it really comes down to how you approach to making a comp that will determine synergy outside of the basic roles you want on a team.[/size][/font][/color]


[b][size=3][color=#000000][font=Arial]2. [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=Verdana]Do you think lack of diminishing returns on current abilities will promote stacking certain classes (5x necro traited for fears, or guardians).[/font][/color][/size][/b]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]While it is possible to pull this off currently, here at Team Legacy, we believe that it should only be possible to certain degree. Five rangers with the same build, like say Spirit Rangers, should not be able to beat a well thought out team composition easily. While do you have this sort of ‘cheese’ build in other competitive games, they must be balanced out down release to avoid seeing 5 mirror builds in the same team. Being able to skillfully pull it off, however, would be a different thing. But as it stands, there’s a huge disparity in profession balance, thus making some 5-man mirror builds way better than they should be right now.[/size][/font][/color]

Edited by kwlpp, 11 August 2012 - 07:40 PM.

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#31 spOh

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

[quote]1. How strong is synergy between professions? Like class A that strongly relies (or is even unplayable w/o) on class B (warrior/healer in wow for example), or CC synergy (mage/rogue etc).

2. Do you think lack of diminishing returns on current abilities will promote stacking certain classes (5x necro traited for fears, or guardians).

3. Are there any unique but irreplaceable abilities/skills for certain professions that will make this profession "must have" in the team

4. Looking at current abilities do you see any potential candidate for "its gonna be hard to balance", not sure how to describe it (smoke bomb equivalent)

5. Do you think having "combos" that different professions can do together adds another layer of skill cap, or is it going to be something obvious and used on daily basics[/quote]


1. I believe the synergy between professions to be even stronger than that of say WoW's classes.  My main reasoning for this would be because of the absence of the holy trinity.  All classes have multiple viable specs over different focuses (raw damage, condition damage, support, control, etc.) so you are able to tailor the builds on your team the way you want, regardless of class.  That's not to say that there are some abilties that are stronger than others atm, because there are, but there are still balance changes to be made before release that will help alleviate some of these issues.

2. Diminishing returns were more of a must have in WoW because the CC durations were longer and sometimes on shorter cooldowns (or no cooldown i.e. mage's polymorph).  Stuns, fears, and knockdowns usually only last 1-2 seconds here and act more of an interrupt rather than a complete lockdown of your character.  Also, stability and stun-breaking abilties would be a good way to counter a team that is heavily focused on control if your team was having trouble against a control setup.

3. I think you're going to see niches in classes that need to be filled, rather than classes.  For example, there's a good chance youre not gonig to bring five condition damage based classes to a game, but if you wanted to bring three engineers, you could bring one that is more focused on raw damage, one that is more focused on condition damage, and one that is more focused on support based skills.  While I don't feel its currently optimal to stack multiple classes based on the fact that each class brings unique abilities to group and solo situations, it could still be viable.  On Foefire, groups that go to the middle can choose to bring group stability and group condition removal, however there is not one class that does either of those, but multiple.

4. Only thing that comes to mind atm that could be tough to balance is stomping while invulnerable.  I think the way they have designed the abiltiies and how they operate allows for easy change.

5. I believe combo fields add more depth to the game, as they certainly can be useful.  Some feel a bit weaker than others though , as the benefits to comboing aren't exactly great when you would have to blow a longer cd to gain a mediocre buff.

#32 ValorLotD

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

[quote name='crazieh' timestamp='1344713367' post='3742514']
What do you feel like the skill-cap is in Guild Wars 2?

Would a super good player stand out clearly from just "good" players? I feel like in WoW your individual skill can easily be overshadowed by inbalance, gear, etc. I'm interested to know if being especially good can get you very far, or if teamplay is more important, etc.

Will there be any rating system like in WoW? I've heard there's probably going to be 5v5, will that have a rated ladder etc? Is it likely they'll add 3v3 to it after release?

Thanks!
[/quote]

Thanks for this excellent question and set up.  I am concerned that there was a rumor started that GW2 was not going to support rated PvP.  This is absolutely false.

[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]GW2 will have rated PVP!!![/b][/color][/size]

The developers have stated that in order to ensure that early game bugs/glitches/hacks/imbalance do not distort the ladders, that they were going to implement rated matches until after release.  They may say that because they haven't ironed out the system, or they may just honestly be taking that approach.  However, it is without a doubt that GW2 will have global ladder rankings.

Their system will be built around tournaments that are weekly, monthly and annual.  The system will hopefully be up and running within a month, but that is speculation at this point.  I would assume that they will be focused first on the WvW ladders and server matching, then move their sites to Arena's.
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#33 Lyr_1337

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

[quote name='Guy_With_A_Question' timestamp='1344713764' post='3742523']
Would you like to see any other map types made for spvp? Maybe CTF for example.
[/quote]

I would like to see other map types, but it's hard to balance one map type anyway. If you integrate a new type without looking for the balance of all classes for this new type, imbalance is incoming for sure.

Anyway i remember, that Anet will take a look on other map types after release.

#34 Izkimar

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:47 PM

[quote name='Syia' timestamp='1344713653' post='3742519']
@Izkimar
What are your thoughts on elementalist as a primary damage dealer right now? I've played several hundred games on elementalist now. I think that their mobility and ability to do a lot of burst is great for finishing fights, but they're poor for engaging 1v1 against a plethora of specs. I see this primarily due to elementalist having low hp/low armor and unable to fight on the node in tPvP when focused. I've had success playing the roamer role (similar to Lowell) and finishing the last 50-60% of a player's health, but when it comes to a fresh engagement I feel that elementalist don't bring much group support. For example, Lowell provides venomous auras in a team fight. The elementalist as a damage dealer provides no real group utility besides the Elemental Attunement trait. As double arcane attack builds, it seems impossible to stomp/res without mist form unless you want to die. I've tried Armor of Earth + Mist Form + Soldier's Amulet variants and the sustained damage is okay, but, on a node warriors/rangers have better stats both offensively and defensively.

I believe:

A support elementalist provides ample condition removal, healing, moderate damage, and boon spreading.
A damage-dealing elementalist can branch into pure damage and finish off already low players, or build around Soldier's Amulet providing good sustained damage with fairly decent stomping/rallying (Armor of Earth + Mist Form).

Yet, the damage-dealing doesn't seem all that great when there is enough group swiftness that the roamer role is mitigated.
[/quote]

Hey Syia, I feel that Elementalist is in a very good spot as a damage dealer right now.  While you may lack armor in some of the more glassy builds, you can make up for that with healing sustain.  For instance, Scepter/Dagger has probably the highest self sustaining HPS for Elementalist.  There are also many traits along with Armor of Earth that help, like the attunement swap trait that gives you boons based on your attunement.  So you can have very significant protection uptime.  I think Scepter/Dagger does play that Thief kind of role though in that it comes into team fights to finish people and acts like a duelist.  However, it isn't a great sustained team fighter, which is okay.  If you want more toughness, then I would suggest running a Soldiers or a Valkyries and try to ensure you have good Fury uptime, either through your team or with some of the trait set ups.  

As for Staff, it brings a lot to the table as a direct damage dealer.  It can roam decently, because it has large access to Swiftness, and it can also duel very well too.  On top of that, you can invest 10 points into Water to get the Regen removes conditions trait, and still offer great Healing Rain support for your team.  On top of that, you really dictate group battles through some nice aoe control, and just by your damage alone.  Once you really nail it down you can survive quite well too.  I would suggest in the Staff build, that Armor of Earth and Mist Form is a must though.  

Overall, I think raw damage Elementalist is in a very good place.

#35 Erho

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:50 PM

[quote name='Guy_With_A_Question' timestamp='1344713764' post='3742523']
Would you like to see any other map types made for spvp? Maybe CTF for example.
[/quote]
Hey, Guy_With_A_Question. Thanks for the question, guy!

Honestly, no. While it would be fun to have different game modes, imagine the balancing nightmares that would ensue. If this game seriously wants to take itself as an eSport and take a stab at success, I think they are taking the right direction on balancing the game for one game type.

On top of that; this game has amazing positional based PvP. What better game mode to go along with that than conquest with cool secondary objectives for each map?

Edited by Erho, 11 August 2012 - 07:51 PM.

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#36 Wanbe

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:52 PM

[quote name='crazieh' timestamp='1344713367' post='3742514']
What do you feel like the skill-cap is in Guild Wars 2?

Would a super good player stand out clearly from just "good" players? I feel like in WoW your individual skill can easily be overshadowed by inbalance, gear, etc. I'm interested to know if being especially good can get you very far, or if teamplay is more important, etc.

Will there be any rating system like in WoW? I've heard there's probably going to be 5v5, will that have a rated ladder etc? Is it likely they'll add 3v3 to it after release?

Thanks!
[/quote]

I think the skill-cap in GW2 is really high. Not only is the gameplay extremely fast, there is also the mechanic of the dodge-roll. Mastering the dodge-roll requires months, if not years, of experience.
The personal skill is really important in GW2, and all team members should at least play "good" to compete at the highest level. Playing "super good" is a nice to have, and sometimes pays off.
But In my opinion you don't have to play like a god to be successful. There is really no way a "super good" player can beat up "good" players in a 2v1 (mostly because of the downed state). Teamplay in GW2 is higher scaling then in any other game i have experienced. It will be a lot about communication and fast reactions between players. Tactics will be the most important part in the game, and the team which can perform their own tactics better and counter the others faster, will win.


There are no information about the Ladder/rating system yet. All there is right now, is a sPvP 5v5 mode, which also will be the pvp used in tournaments.

Edited by Wanbe, 11 August 2012 - 07:55 PM.


#37 Powerr_Matchless

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:53 PM

[quote name='crazieh' timestamp='1344713367' post='3742514']
What do you feel like the skill-cap is in Guild Wars 2?

Would a super good player stand out clearly from just "good" players? I feel like in WoW your individual skill can easily be overshadowed by inbalance, gear, etc. I'm interested to know if being especially good can get you very far, or if teamplay is more important, etc.

Will there be any rating system like in WoW? I've heard there's probably going to be 5v5, will that have a rated ladder etc? Is it likely they'll add 3v3 to it after release?

Thanks!
[/quote]

Skill cap is very high as you will be able to tell once you are in game.  In WoW you can indeed be overshadowed by those with gear, in Guild Wars 2 that is no longer the case.  [b]All players are on equal footing.[/b] [color=#ff0000]Skill and teamwork[/color] are the two predominant factors that will do the work on the scoreboard for you.  The better play will most likely always win.  

So concerning to your question about how standout-ish you can be.  Well the answer is very much so but at the same time team play takes precedence in team fights and personal skill in your 1v1s.

Hardly ever will you find yourself in a 5v5 team fight.  Most games are won and lost solely on the outcomes of 1v1s during the match.  This is where personal skill really indicates your teams success.  Each player needs to build his character so that you are capable of winning your 1v1s because it truly makes for the outcome of many games.  Winning your 1v1s is [size=5]VITALLY[/size] important.  All the while teamwork is more important than in other games because of all the ways you can aid with combo fields and peeling.  Players will be expected to know the game in-and-out.  Each player needs to be able to recognize buffs such as stability and what to do.  You need to help save your teammates moreso than in other games with clutch cc and rezzes.

Finally a game where you must bring team skills and personal skill to the table, this will be a new level of skill ceiling that will only be accomplished by the few.  Having a full 5 man of legit 1v1 and team players will come rare.

Lastly yes there will be a rating system for the 5v5 tournaments.  Also there will be player-run tournaments because we will all have the option to purchase our own private servers.  Spectator mode is coming as well

Edited by Powerr_Matchless, 11 August 2012 - 07:56 PM.


#38 hypermode_4274975

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:54 PM

Are there things similar to ''random bg'' and is the game fun if your friends arn't online?
Also, is there things similar to pve/leveling?

#39 ValorLotD

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:54 PM

For my compadres answering questions, here are two that the community may find interesting:

Do you feel that conditions are adequately countered by condi removal in order to allow other forms of damage to be viable within each class?

Which class do you believe to be the most "underpowered" based off of your experience playing with or against them?
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#40 TLrotten

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:55 PM

[quote name='Guy_With_A_Question' timestamp='1344713764' post='3742523']
Would you like to see any other map types made for spvp? Maybe CTF for example.
[/quote]


Right now, Conquest is the best mode for the game.
As there are no dedicated roles (e.g. healers), the usual deathmatch and other common gamemodes don’t fit in. The game would have no depth other than smashing all your damage skills.
I believe the reason they chose conquest over other modes is simple: It forces you to split into several scrimmages, creating 1v1,2v2, etc. situations where you have to use your abilities really carefully (like fearing someone of a capture point to cap it, snare someone on the way to a point, etc.)

There are some modes that could fit into the game, as you mentioned, CTF is one of them. The issue would be that the game is balanced around conquest. I think they are definitely doing the right choice in sticking to one map type.

I also need to add that the secondary objectives offer more possibilities to Conquest than other modes. I could imagine CTF being integrated in an actual conquest map for example.
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