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[Build] Bleed stacking w/ crit

Ranger PvP Shortbow Dagger Quickness Condition Bleed Condition damage Condition duration

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#1 Philijongon

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:18 PM

Note: This is a post which I started on my guilds forum, but felt like putting in here to spark up the theory crafting and discussion of rangers on this site.

Working on a bleed/crit build for my Ranger and I've come to the point where I feel it's down to tweaking it.
I'm currently standing between these two builds. Remember to look at traits as well as armor/weapon runes!:

Build A 1.3 - Focus on increasing conditional duration.
96 damage per tick * 5 ticks (one per second) = 480 damage over 5 seconds

Is focusing heavily on the glass cannon (Build A). It got the possibility of hitting multiple targets with piercing arrows, and can gain sharpening stone, which I would really like, when I hit 75%.

Build B 1.3 - More survivability with this build. Focus on increasing conditional damage.
112 damage per tick * 3 ticks (one per second) = 336 damage over 3 seconds

Adds much more survivability (Build B ), but seems to have a slight decrease of possible damage output.

I would love to hear your feedback on these builds and the tweaks between them, but also on other things such as utility skills.

EDIT NOTES
1.0 - Added builds: Build A 1.0 & Build B 1.0
1.1 - Changed Build A to 2 Lyssa from 2 Krait armor runes, to increase duration up to 5.1 from 4.8 so it's rounded down to 5. Also added the calculated damage per tick for the builds. Thanks Mouse (from the guild EPIC)!
1.2 - Changed Build A' last trait in the skirmish tree from increased axe critical damage to Quickening Zephyr at 25% hp. This is due to Skky's
(from the guild EPIC) video, where he pointed out the value of quickness.
1.3 - Changed Lightning Reflexes to Sharpening Stone in both builds, because of tested effectiveness in the stress test August 2.


#2 PhineasSurrey

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

I would consider switching the Sword for an Axe for the following reasons:
  • Offers additional stacks of Bleeding via Splitblade
  • Your autoattack hits up to 3 enemies -> Together with Sharpening Stone you can reliably apply Bleeding to multiple enemies
I am not quite convinced by the Sharpening Stone - Piercing Arrows combination you mentioned, because it only works if your targets stand in a line. I would much prefer to apply my SS bleeds via Axe autoattack.

Other than that I think you offer a good mix of DPS and Cond DMG while not being too squishy.

BTW, what is the % chance on Sharpening Edges (trait)?

#3 Jokerplex

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:46 PM

I just went with shortbow+war horn and fucked shit up


bleed builds look gay id rather smash people with auto attack

#4 Philijongon

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

View PostPhineasSurrey, on 10 August 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

I would consider switching the Sword for an Axe for the following reasons:
  • Offers additional stacks of Bleeding via Splitblade
  • Your autoattack hits up to 3 enemies -> Together with Sharpening Stone you can reliably apply Bleeding to multiple enemies
I am not quite convinced by the Sharpening Stone - Piercing Arrows combination you mentioned, because it only works if your targets stand in a line. I would much prefer to apply my SS bleeds via Axe autoattack.
BTW, what is the % chance on Sharpening Edges (trait)?

I've been thinking a lot about using an axe as main weapon, and it was also mentioned in my thread on the guild forum. I also said concluded there that the piercing arrows combination would work better in WvW and such, but another thing is that when the targeted opponent flees behind another player it pierces them, which it wouldn't do usually. Maybe this will be more beneficial when people actually get skilled in the game.

I haven't found any place that states what the % chance on Sharpening Edges is unfortunately. Weapon Runes with crit chance procs have 60%, so my guess would be around 30%-60%


I use sword as I usually only switch to flee or gain distance, where I find the sword greater. That is also why I choose those runes on that weapon set.

#5 Magesw

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:35 AM

Good looking build here I will check it out in live.

#6 Turncloak

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:01 PM

I've tried your specc in the last stress test yesterday, and I wrecked havoc. With my pet and sharpening stone I easily stacked up to 25 stacks of bleeding and my enemies' hp just melted away. But you can get easely stomped, and even a few modifications towards survivablity made no difference. They increased the damage of everyone, so this may be inevitable. The last stresstest felt like everyone was just a glasscannon. I played Longbow/Trap specc before I tried yours, kiting and surv. in focus. But even then I felt way more vulnerable than before. Saw a guardian who oneshotted people with his greatsword stuff and easely survived up to 3 foes at a time, but well, guardian..

But your specc is great. With over 50% crit chance and the fast shortbow and the stuff you can easily stack bleedings. And with the sick glyph combination they WILL die, even if they stomp you.

#7 Hyuru

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:40 PM

Wouldnt this be easily countered by condition removal

edit: which basicly every class got a ton off

Edited by Hyuru, 14 August 2012 - 09:40 PM.


#8 PhineasSurrey

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:51 PM

Yes, that's the problem with every condition build.

However, you apply bleed with every crit and condition applying skills have a lower CD than condition cleansing skills.
Once players get better and closely watch their conditions, you have to play smart. Covering conditions for example (I think the newest ones get removed? Can't remember).
And/or, which is what I do, apply bleeds with low CDs, autoattacks etc. Directly after he cleanses use your longer CDs to get him up to high stacks again.

With a condition build you play nice mindgames sometimes. Or you just stomp newbies.

The only thing that is a real counter are mass cond removals or ticking cond removals. Necros or properly specced Rangers are a pain :/

Crit / Power is much more straight forward, but gets countered by high Toughness (cond damage is unaffected).

#9 Hyuru

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:12 AM

I was testing out bleed on crit as rifle warrior (could easily get 20-30+ stacks of bleeds on one target if they were retarded) but it was so easy to counter it with condition removal,. dont think it will be a viable build in competetive pvp rlly.

#10 Philijongon

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

View PostHyuru, on 16 August 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

I was testing out bleed on crit as rifle warrior (could easily get 20-30+ stacks of bleeds on one target if they were retarded) but it was so easy to counter it with condition removal,. dont think it will be a viable build in competetive pvp rlly.

If you look on how condition stacking and such works, it isn't so much affected. Using a condition remover v.s. this is basically like having a 1 sec immortality skill.

#11 Soupkitchn89

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:57 PM

Just a fyi on increasing condition duration. But duration increases work in whole second increments. So if you have a 2s bleed for example. This bleed will see no increase in duration until you have 50% increase granting an 1s increase to bump it up to 3s.

A lot of conditions last longer then my example of 2s, but even with that the rune sets with smaller duration increases of like 2-5% are pretty useless at the moment, unless you are 2-5% away from another whole second.

#12 Soupkitchn89

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:46 AM

Obviously this is more specific to bleeds as they stack in dmg and not duration so they are inherently shorter in most cases.

But for reference if all you had was 15% bleed duration from one of the rune sets then the bleed has to be at least 7s duration to receive any benefit.

#13 CharrGaming

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:16 PM

Very interesting I'll try it out

#14 Tycho

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 02:15 AM

It seems bleed stacking of some sort is the build every single ranger does atm. I wonder what other tactics we'll discover in the future

#15 Tycho

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 11:40 PM

However, the build is kinda fun to play, most targets melt (except when they get a lot of hp back or dont' die for some reason) but except if your kiting is godlike / They play like sea cucumbers , you will get trashed very quickly.

My take on the build I run is the same as this one, except sun spirit instead of the condition removal ( you're going to do point defense/attack anyway, and if they get you you'll die anyway ) and the sun spirit has the nice advtange of potentially giving you buff covers to avoid your bleed getting removed, I think.
Also, I run the vines as the ult for more bleeding and free kiting / positioning

#16 Tycho

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 08:46 PM

also, anyone here experiencing Guardians, necros etc that just regen way too much HP for some reason and never die ?

#17 ViolentJay

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:13 AM

Classes like that actually force you to understand what their animations mean, and you need to apply poison stuns etc during heals as well as condition switching skills (necro), i think that a necro removal build is currently what I'm having trouble with as a bleed ranger running the condi signet spike trap and RaO, along with shortbow of battle and axe warhorn of earth and hydromancy respectively, otherwise ive been pubstomping hard.

I will however say that I havent been outright owned 1v1 yet, i think rangers are in a great place right now

#18 Tycho

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:07 AM

They are, although i'm now running longbow build because shortbows look like twigs and i've wasted enough mats on them for no looks.
I'd argue longbow power builds + a greatsword are less easy to counter than the condition builds, + the greatsword gives some kind of escape + the "teamplay" aspect is more present as longbow

#19 BaklivaX

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:36 PM

Don't see how the team play aspect is more presetn with longbow...With condition build (considering u r using traps), u bring some combo field as well as with torch. Also u bring a lot of aoe dmg. Shortbow condition spec is just way over longbow now imo...
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#20 Tycho

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:28 AM

you might be right. I was bias'd as fuck yesterday because I didn't find a single good looking shortbow so I tried to justify a Longbow switch. Using the A build now




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