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Tips for PVP Engineers


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#1 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:24 AM

Hi guys. Coming from a Druid in WoW I was instantly drawn to the Engineer class, whose kits (secondary weapons) are somewhat of a spiritual successor to the numerous forms a druid has. Currently the kits are unfortunately a bit weak in most cases, but due to the fact that each kit gives you 5 new skills, they usually have one or two abilities that are pretty great.

I almost always run a 3 kit build, which although I am still learning on how to best use a 4-weapon build, is extremely fun and has one of the highest skill caps currently available to any class in GW2 (in my opinion, of course).

Anyway I thought I would just post some of the interesting uses of certain kits and their abilities as some of these are a bit more obscure, especially to new engineers.

Currently my build consists of two must-have kits for any kit build: the flamethrower and the Tool kit*. The third kit I use depends on how you want to play; you can use the bomb kit for a higher damage yet low-survivability build, or you can use the Elixir Gun kit for more elusive, well-rounded build. Currently I lean toward the Elixir Gun.

*Why are the Flamethrower and the Tool kit mandatory? Put simply, their toolbelt skills are amazing. Yes, sadly these kits are more useful for their toolbelts rather than the actual kits themselves.

Anyway here is just a point form list of some tips for new kit engineers.

Traits:
- The "Equipping a Kit creates a spell" trait is AMAZING, and nobody realizes it. With it you can break stuns and CC each time you switch to a kit. I'm not sure if that's intended as it is extremely overpowered from a mechanical perspective. This trait also makes the Flamethrower shoot an AOE burn when you swap to it, drops a "frost trap" when you swap to the tool kit, but most importantly it drops a healing combo field when you swap to the elixir gun (more on that below).

- One of the best traits right now is "Fire a lightning bolt when using a Tool Belt skill". This trait scales with power and can hit for 1-2k. It synergizes well with reduced CD on Tool Belt skills from the Tools trait line, and the fact that a 3 kit build makes extensive use of toolbelts with low CD's makes this trait a must.
- Incendiary powder is mandatory for all builds, even ones that do direct damage. Since it gives you a chance to burn, and since burning barely scales with condition damage, this is good for all builds.

Bomb kit
- Big Ol Bomb is amazing and again it is better than the Bomb kit itself. If you use the Bomb Kit you will probably want to mainhand the rifle. With that, you can set up a HUGE burst chain by using Net Shot (Rifle), Big Ol Bomb (Tool Belt), Jump Shot (Rifle). This is a huge combo but it is also quite slow.

- The #2 skill on the bomb kit is by far the best bomb, and the highest priority PVP bomb if you decide to actually use the kit. It creates a Fire combo field, burns foes, and also "ticks" for direct damage -- each of which can proc traits such as "chance to cause vulnerability/burning/bleeding on crit". Getting people to remain inside the Fire Bomb's blast is DEVASTATING, although rare.

Flamethrower
- Unfortunately the FT isn't strong enough to be your main weapon, so forget about staying in it for more than a few seconds.
- The #2 Skill, Fire Blast, is extremely hard to land, but rewarding when it does. For best results, use Net Shot (Rifle) into Fire Blast.
- The #5 skill, a short range aoe blind, is useable while stunned.
- Air Blast, the #3 skill, can also be used to set up a Fire Blast burst.
- Incendiary Ammo's duration lasts as long as its cooldown. Therefore you can pre-use it out of combat so that when you start combat its CD will be closer to renewing. Think Frost Mages and Water Elemental pre-gates-opening.
- You know those annoying barriers that Guardian put up? Well they will block projectiles, but your FT's fire is not considered a projectile. The next time you see a Guardian turtle behind his barriers, switch to the FT and spray through the wall. It might not be that much damage since the FT's damage is poor, but it's better than nothing.

Elixir Gun
- The #4 skill acts as a "disengage" and is great if you like being mobile, but more importantly, it does RIDICULOUS damage by dropping a puddle. If you can keep your enemy in that puddle, they will take serious damage.
- The #5 skill is Super Elixir. Note: if you have the "equipping a kit creates a spell" trait, whenever you equip the Elixir Gun it will instantly drop a Super Elixir on you. Why is this so good? It creates a water field, which allows you to remove conditions from yourself when you shoot through it with a projectile finisher (the Rifle or Pistol or Elixir Gun #1 skill autoattacks). This is why I use the Elixir gun -- strictly to have an option for condition removal.

Tool Kit
- Swapping to this kit drops a cripple field that you can kite enemies through. If you see a Warrior or a Thief in advance, swapping to the Tool Kit to drop the cripple field can help.
- The #4 skill is awesome and makes you immune to damage for a few seconds. If you are using the Bomb kit and therefore are a bit squishy, you can run into the fray and drop the Big Ol Bomb /Fire Bomb, and then immediately swap to tool kit (dropping a cripple field) and then turtle up using #4 Gear Shield. This is good for when you are getting into melee range to bomb melee characters.
- You can also use the #5 Magnet to "deathgrip" people into your bombs radius. Since Big Ol Bomb is extremely visible and people are learning to GTFO when they see it, it's pretty fun gripping people back into the blast radius, although this spell is mechanically a big buggy right now and sometimes doesn't work (think WoW's Typhoon).
- Throw Wrench (Tool Belt) crits for about 2k and has a chance to hit on the way back too. Couple this with the lightning discharge from using the lightning trait, and you can do some substantial damage.

Med Kit
- This is my favorite healing skill to use simply due to its versatility. The #4 Antidote removes one condition stack from you. The #5 skill gives you out-of-combat swiftness, but more importantly it gives you 20% crit chance. Getting this off in combat is really good especially with how many "chance to do X on crit" traits the engineer has.
- If you have points into the Tools trait line (you should always have 20 at the moment, in my opinon), your Tool Belt CDs are reduced. Since the med kit's actual heal is on the toolbelt, this gives you a low CD heal.

Avoiding Hundred Blades
This probably needs its own heading because of how many warriors run the HB build. With the Kit Refinement trait, swapping kits breaks stuns. Therefore, when a Warrior charges you for a HB combo, your best bet is to swap to the Tool Kit and use #4 Gear Shield to absorb the damage. Or you can swap to the Flamethrower for the aoe burn and then dodge, but there seems to be a bit of a delay doing this so you often take a lot of damage anyway. I prefer to use Gear Shield partly for the troll factor of seeing a Warrior have his 11k burst absorbed.

General
- A 3 kit build has tones of gapmakers. You can #4 Overcharged Shot (Rifle), #3 Air Blast (Flamethrower), #4 Elixir Gun, or #5 Jump Shot (Rifle).
- You are quite succeptible to condition damage without elixirs in your build, so making use of the Elixir Gun's combo field can help (but sometimes you are just kind of boned against high damage condition specs).

Some of this is probably a bit obvious, but equipping 4 kits in addition to your weapon can be a bit overwhelming, especially given that you have to memorize far more skills than most classes. You also have to get used to your 1-5 keys having 5 different functions depending on what you have equipped, so I hope this list helps some people get a sense of which kit's skills are the most effective in their current state. For example, I completely dismissed the Tool Kit due to its poor melee performance -- it was only once I realized the applications of its #4 and 5 skills that I began to appreciate it.

Edited by Ctuhlu, 10 August 2012 - 12:43 AM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#2 SleepyTigerz

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:10 AM

Glad to see another fan of the 3-kit Engineer! I've only seen one other one in-game myself, which surprises me because it has so much CC, combo fields, etc. I guess it it just as you said; having 4 kits, your weapon, and all your toolbelt skills can be a little overwhelming to the new Engineer lol

Just a question; what runes do you prefer when using the 3-kit build? I sometimes hop around between condition runes and defensive runes depending if my team needs me to do more damage or be more tanky, but I do run Melandru most of the time.

#3 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:35 AM

View PostSleepyTigerz, on 10 August 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

Glad to see another fan of the 3-kit Engineer! I've only seen one other one in-game myself, which surprises me because it has so much CC, combo fields, etc. I guess it it just as you said; having 4 kits, your weapon, and all your toolbelt skills can be a little overwhelming to the new Engineer lol

Just a question; what runes do you prefer when using the 3-kit build? I sometimes hop around between condition runes and defensive runes depending if my team needs me to do more damage or be more tanky, but I do run Melandru most of the time.

I would say that runes are largely dependent on the overarching style of your build, which is directly related to which main weapon you are using. The first thing you need to decide is whether you will be doing condition damage (Pistol) or direct damage (Rifle). The kits work with both types of builds, as you are never really using the kit as your "weapon", but rather a utility skill or two, with some occasional damage thrown in. The exception is the bomb kit, which scales very well with power and is far more effective in a rifle build. However, Big Ol Bomb is amazing whether you stack CD or DD so there's that.

The sad thing is that neither the Elixir Gun nor the Flamethrower nor the Tool Kit become effective damage-dealing weapons whether you stack power, precision, or condition damage. If they did the class would be so much more dynamic, so I'm hoping that eventually you are able to use a kit as your main weapon.

Back to runes, when I run a power build with the rifle I just use 6 Runes of Divinity (18 stats and 3% crit damage). For condition builds I find that mixing and matching to get the set bonuses you want works best -- stacking 6 of one rune in a condition damage build is almost always a mistake imo. How you pick your runes depends on your build and your traits, but getting the (2) set +duration bonuses can be good if you do some math. Mixing and matching Nightmare/Forge/Krait/some others that I forget can give you some extreme CD if you calculate exactly what you need for extra ticks on your conditions.

I plan on sticking with a direct damage build though. I'm just not as interested in playing an Affliction Engineer, even though when I do encounter them they are annoying as hell. The 3 kit rifle build gets torn up by conditions so that compounds the frustration. I really wish one of the kits had condition removal. The Elixir Gun combo field is a poor substitute and isn't very reliable, but that and the Antidote is really all we've got at the moment.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#4 Windwrath1

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:51 AM

Any reason you entirely skipped the Grenade kit? I found it to be great fun in BWE3, for it's combo field (poison) and it's slowing and the bleed from the #2 skill. I guess it was super super effective in large groups and less so otherwise, but I even used it to some decent effect in 1v1s.

#5 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:06 AM

View PostWindwrath1, on 10 August 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

Any reason you entirely skipped the Grenade kit? I found it to be great fun in BWE3, for it's combo field (poison) and it's slowing and the bleed from the #2 skill. I guess it was super super effective in large groups and less so otherwise, but I even used it to some decent effect in 1v1s.

1) I don't really like it in its current form. It requires multiple traits to function (all of which are in the Explosives line), and getting those traits is detrimental to a 3 kit build, since you "need" 30 in Firearms and at least 20 in Tools (and I put 30 in tools, leaving 10 for explosives). The grenade kit requires a bit too much specialize to synergize well in a 3 kit build. It's like, if you're going to put that much effort into making the grenade kit decent, why are you even using other kits at the same time? But that's just me.

2) All of its abilities are ground targeted, and have travel times. I just don't like the way this plays in PVP, which is constantly on the move. Sure you can sometimes lead your target and get a direct hit -- but when you do you hit for about 700. The risk is high and the reward is low. You would think landing a ground-targetted animation time + cast time skill would do significant damage (and based on the supposed "difficulty" of landing Hundred Blades it's even more glaring), but it doesn't.

3) I don't find the poison field that useful. If you are using the rifle, poison won't be doing much damage since you aren't stacking condition damage. It's much better to shoot through a fire field (from Fire Bomb or Napalm from the Flamethrower), since burning doesn't scale much with condition damage and your lack of that stat won't hamper you. You could of course argue that the poison is useful for the healing reduction, but even then your autoattacks only have a 20% chance of proccing the poison when shooting through the field, so it's not that reliable. Oh and if you really want to poison your enemy you can use the #2 of the Elixir Gun, which also hits 5 times and has a chance to proc crits on each hit, thus giving you more conditions put on your enemy.

And if you are using the pistol, well you can just use the #2 skill and easily poison your enemy without worrying about getting a proc from the combo.

Edited by Ctuhlu, 10 August 2012 - 05:07 AM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#6 Windwrath1

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:14 AM

Makes sense. I didn't run a 3 kit Engineer, and I couldn't play that much last BWE so I'm sure my decisions weren't optimal.

I used pistol, shield. I found that yeah, you can poison with your 2 with pistol, but at the same time it's cooldown isn't short enough that you can't benefit from stacking more duration of it. I would open with bleed, freeze and lay the poison field, swap pistol and shoot through the field.

Now, I played a LOT of WvW in the BWE, so that may have had a lot to do with my enjoyment of it.

Maybe you do have to specialize for grenades, but I found it fun.

#7 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:19 AM

View PostWindwrath1, on 10 August 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:


Now, I played a LOT of WvW in the BWE, so that may have had a lot to do with my enjoyment of it.

Maybe you do have to specialize for grenades, but I found it fun.

Grenades are perfectly fine in large-scale WvW. I was talking strictly in a sPVP/5v5 context.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#8 Windwrath1

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:26 AM

View PostCtuhlu, on 10 August 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

Grenades are perfectly fine in large-scale WvW. I was talking strictly in a sPVP/5v5 context.

Yeah, no, I knew you were. Just saying my rosy vision of grenades probably has to do with using them a lot in WvW... also I played 8v8 a bit, too. So I'm probably skewed. :)

#9 tarair_1301243

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:49 AM

very nice thoughts! i didn't realize that "kit refinement" works as stunbreaker on kit swaps. That's an amazing feature for kits (it is really needed) and i hope they wont nerf it out of the game.

#10 itsHatorade

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:37 PM

Another thing that's very strong with flamethrower is the Juggernaut tier 3 explosives trait. It reduces speed by 50% but gives you toughness and stability with the flamethrower equipped. If you use this as you stomp enemies or revive allies the only thing that can interrupt you is fears.

Similarly though its not a kit, you can stomp/revive while using Elixir S, and the toolbelt throw Elixir S skill will also give you and your allies stealth or stability which is again great for stomping enemies.

#11 Keefin

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:13 PM

Great review. Personally, I love Elixir Gun because its the best way to get good condi removal without going 30 points into the Alchemy trait line with lots of Elixirs. I feel like if you don't opt for one of these two builds then you really need to use Elixir C, but one condi wipe on a 60 sec CD is often not enough.

As for Grenade Kit, I actually think its our strongest kit. This is mostly because of Freeze Grenade + extra grenade trait along with condi duration can make Chill last incredibly long. Chill is an incredibly strong condition and is the bane of certain classes, like Warriors or any melee really. Also, if you run with high crit and the Vulnerability on crit chance, you can stack Vulnerability really high really quickly due to hitting with three grenades on throw.

#12 Sylo

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:51 PM

So do you feel that rifle is better then double pistol or pistol/shield combo?

nekos01 said:

wariors dont proc annoying stuns on you anymore

they just proc instant death

#13 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:53 PM

View PostSylo, on 10 August 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

So do you feel that rifle is better then double pistol or pistol/shield combo?

Honestly I would say that Pistol/Shield is the strongest weapon setup the engineer has. I just prefer running a direct damage build in terms of fun factor and playstyle. But when I do use a condition build for a change every now and then, Pistol/Shield is the way to go. The shield is incredibly well-designed and extremely versatile. In two skills it provides ranged defense, melee defense, offensive CC, and defensive CC. I wish more weapons were designed like the shield, where each skill has two different uses. Really increases the skillcap.

The main thing about running Pistol/Shield is that it is such a complete set that you don't really need to run any kits with it -- you're better off to just sit in pistol/shield for the vast majority of the time. So at that point a 3 kit build is largely superfluous.

The rifle is sorely lacking in defense, so you need to play an elusive style of disengages and gapmakers. The problem is, the Rifle is far more effective at short-range. I really like the weapon but if it had some kind of defense it would be much more well-rounded. This is also why the Tool Kit is "necessary" for the Rifle -- it adds some much needed survivability.

A 3-kit Rifle build is fun to play, but admittedly less strong than the condition build or most class' builds. But it's just too much fun, and its skill cap is so freaking high. Once Engineer kits are tuned up a bit, a skilled player with a 3 kit setup will be a feat to behold.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#14 Sylo

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:06 PM

View PostCtuhlu, on 10 August 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Honestly I would say that Pistol/Shield is the strongest weapon setup the engineer has. I just prefer running a direct damage build in terms of fun factor and playstyle. But when I do use a condition build for a change every now and then, Pistol/Shield is the way to go. The shield is incredibly well-designed and extremely versatile. In two skills it provides ranged defense, melee defense, offensive CC, and defensive CC. I wish more weapons were designed like the shield, where each skill has two different uses. Really increases the skillcap.

The main thing about running Pistol/Shield is that it is such a complete set that you don't really need to run any kits with it -- you're better off to just sit in pistol/shield for the vast majority of the time. So at that point a 3 kit build is largely superfluous.

The rifle is sorely lacking in defense, so you need to play an elusive style of disengages and gapmakers. The problem is, the Rifle is far more effective at short-range. I really like the weapon but if it had some kind of defense it would be much more well-rounded. This is also why the Tool Kit is "necessary" for the Rifle -- it adds some much needed survivability.

A 3-kit Rifle build is fun to play, but admittedly less strong than the condition build or most class' builds. But it's just too much fun, and its skill cap is so freaking high. Once Engineer kits are tuned up a bit, a skilled player with a 3 kit setup will be a feat to behold.

I was playing more of the condition based build with both double pistol and pistol/shield and I must be doing something wrong but I didn't feel that strong at all..

I think it has to do with more of the lack of knowledge of the game in general vs engineers being weak. That being said I still plan to play an engineer come release. I found it the most fun of all the classes I tried.

nekos01 said:

wariors dont proc annoying stuns on you anymore

they just proc instant death

#15 Sylo

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:16 PM

View PostCtuhlu, on 10 August 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

I would say that runes are largely dependent on the overarching style of your build, which is directly related to which main weapon you are using. The first thing you need to decide is whether you will be doing condition damage (Pistol) or direct damage (Rifle). The kits work with both types of builds, as you are never really using the kit as your "weapon", but rather a utility skill or two, with some occasional damage thrown in. The exception is the bomb kit, which scales very well with power and is far more effective in a rifle build. However, Big Ol Bomb is amazing whether you stack CD or DD so there's that.

The sad thing is that neither the Elixir Gun nor the Flamethrower nor the Tool Kit become effective damage-dealing weapons whether you stack power, precision, or condition damage. If they did the class would be so much more dynamic, so I'm hoping that eventually you are able to use a kit as your main weapon.

Back to runes, when I run a power build with the rifle I just use 6 Runes of Divinity (18 stats and 3% crit damage). For condition builds I find that mixing and matching to get the set bonuses you want works best -- stacking 6 of one rune in a condition damage build is almost always a mistake imo. How you pick your runes depends on your build and your traits, but getting the (2) set +duration bonuses can be good if you do some math. Mixing and matching Nightmare/Forge/Krait/some others that I forget can give you some extreme CD if you calculate exactly what you need for extra ticks on your conditions.

I plan on sticking with a direct damage build though. I'm just not as interested in playing an Affliction Engineer, even though when I do encounter them they are annoying as hell. The 3 kit rifle build gets torn up by conditions so that compounds the frustration. I really wish one of the kits had condition removal. The Elixir Gun combo field is a poor substitute and isn't very reliable, but that and the Antidote is really all we've got at the moment.

This is very much going to show my lack of knowledge of the game but...

Where do you get these runes? Are they like gems for you gear?

nekos01 said:

wariors dont proc annoying stuns on you anymore

they just proc instant death

#16 ShakeGW2

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:33 PM

Nice tips. I really enjoy playing kit builds but I don't think their utility makes up for their vulnerabilities. You really need to rely on your teammates to peel for you and to remove conditions and that can be asking a lot.

#17 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:11 PM

View PostSylo, on 10 August 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

View PostSylo, on 10 August 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

I was playing more of the condition based build with both double pistol and pistol/shield and I must be doing something wrong but I didn't feel that strong at all..

I think it has to do with more of the lack of knowledge of the game in general vs engineers being weak. That being said I still plan to play an engineer come release. I found it the most fun of all the classes I tried.

A condition engineer is decent-to-strong if played right, but it does have weaknesses and isn't as well-rounded as classes like Rangers or Elementalists, in my opinion. Basically you have to accept that your Pistol #1 skill will do the brunt of your damage and try to avoid using other non-damage skills unless they are necessary. Obviously you want to keep your #2 poison up on CD, but if you swap to kits or fuck around with turrets with a condition build, your bleeds from the autoattack will fall off. You need to really give yourself as much uptime as possible on the pistol auto-attack, which I don't find very exciting. That's why I lean towards the rifle from a 'fun' perspective.

To relate it to WoW, it's kind of like the Cata frost mage effect where you see all these TBC and Wotlk frost mages trying to pro it up with all their spells when a noob frost mage just mashes ice lance and has as much success. Obviously I'm simplifying it here because there are a lot of other skill components in the condition build, but for me the hard part is just letting the auto-attack do its work.

View PostSylo, on 10 August 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

This is very much going to show my lack of knowledge of the game but...

Where do you get these runes? Are they like gems for you gear?

When you enter the PVP zone, the armor vendors sell runes. These function as your 'set bonuses'. You put a rune on each piece of gear, and in the end you have 6 pieces with runes on them. Each type of rune has different set bonuses for how many of that type you have on. Unlike WoW where there is a break point for set bonuses (such as 2 for the first bonus, and 4 for the second), in GW2 each subsequent rune of the same type you equip gives you another bonus. Each type of rune has 6 different set bonuses.

The cool part about this system is you can make a lot of unique combinations, such as 5-1, 2/2/2, 3/2/1, 6-0, etc, where each number represents the amount of a certain rune.

There are also things called sigils, which are essentially weapon enchantments. However they are usually more interesting than 'chance to increase attack power by X', and are a bit more dynamic. For instance, some sigils proc conditions on your target, while others give you buffs. There are tons of different sigils and runes, and it's a bit overwhelming at first.

Edited by Ctuhlu, 10 August 2012 - 08:11 PM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#18 Khaaz

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:11 AM

Really great breakdown of a lot of the Kits Ctulhu; and thanks for the heads-up on kit refinement - i had no idea it was so good.

I've been trying to come up with a good engie build for tournament play, and since engies don't seem to offer a ton of raw sustained dps i figure we needed to be able offer something else to a group in order to define our role on a 5-man team.

Here are some thoughts I had on what an engie can uniquely provide:

One really powerful thing that engies have that no other class has is on-demand permanent stability whenever we want it through the Juggernaut trait which gives you perma stability as long as you have the FT equipped. That alone might give us a role on a team as sort of a 'designated stomper/rezzer'. Necro's have something similar while in death shroud but they can't stomp/rez while in death shroud. The only thing that would be able to stop us from stomping/rezzing is fear and the mesmer elite Moa which are both pretty uncommon - only Necros and Warriors have access to reliable fear abilties and the warrior fear is on an 85 second cd.

Also we can use the "Throw Mine" gadget to somehwhat reliably stop others from stomping/rezzing since stability has just been changed to be considered a boon and landmines remove a boon. So you could throw a landmine on an allies corpse and the mine should hypothetically remove any stability that might be present on the people trying to stomp, and it'll of course knock them back interrupting their stomp. The mines only remove one boon though, so if the enemy has several present it may not remove stability; although I wonder if the mines from the toolbet ability "Mine field" remove boons because it plants 5 mines which should be enough to clear all boons present - i'll have to test that.

Engies can also get permanent vigor thanks to "invigorating Speed" which gives 5s of vigor whenever you gain swiftness, and we have tons of skills/traits that give swiftness. The Speedy Kits trait as well as Infused Precision trait would be more than enough to keep up permanent swiftness/vigor. Having permanent vigor is obviously really strong since you'll be able to dodge twice as much as most other classes which would give you much better survivability.

I don't know how useful the landmines would be, but I really think the FT Juggernaut trait is a must for the on-demand stability, and permanent swiftness and Vigor are both really powerful as well. I just don't know it it would be worth completely embracing the role of 'Master of the Downed Phase' or if you should just take the Juggernaut trait and then spec yourself as mostly a condition DPS class.

Having the on-demand stability might make yourself a priority target for the other team though, so you may have to focus on defense/survivability rather than condition damage otherwise teams will just focus fire you down first.

Anyways, those are some things i've been thinking about that could maybe give us a solid role on a tourney 5 man team. I haven't yet decided on an exact build. I keep changing my mind between several traits since the tools and alchemy trait lines both have a lot of good traits, some of which i'd need to test before using (I didn't really get a chance to test stuff today). The build would basically be Pistol/Shield with 30 into Firearms for the Juggernaut trait, and the rest of your points in either Alchemy or Tools. Let me know what you guys think.

#19 treeqt

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:44 AM

View PostWindwrath1, on 10 August 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

Any reason you entirely skipped the Grenade kit? I found it to be great fun in BWE3, for it's combo field (poison) and it's slowing and the bleed from the #2 skill. I guess it was super super effective in large groups and less so otherwise, but I even used it to some decent effect in 1v1s.

When we played TL in BWE3 they were running a Hammer/Mace Warrior along with a grenade Engineer always pushing for the far away point and that worked out pretty good. The Warrior's CC makes sure the grenades land basically.

View PostKhaaz, on 11 August 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

since engies don't seem to offer a ton of raw sustained dps

They can actually deal amazing damage.

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#20 Ctuhlu

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:45 PM

View PostKhaaz, on 11 August 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:


One really powerful thing that engies have that no other class has is on-demand permanent stability whenever we want it through the Juggernaut trait which gives you perma stability as long as you have the FT equipped. That alone might give us a role on a team as sort of a 'designated stomper/rezzer'. Necro's have something similar while in death shroud but they can't stomp/rez while in death shroud. The only thing that would be able to stop us from stomping/rezzing is fear and the mesmer elite Moa which are both pretty uncommon - only Necros and Warriors have access to reliable fear abilties and the warrior fear is on an 85 second cd.



Don't forget about Blind. If you blind a character doing a stomp ani, it will miss ^.^. Just last night I saw a Juggernaut Engi going for a stomp, and then I swapped to the flamethrower and used the #5 blind. Trolled :)

--

I also tried the grenade kit out for a few hours last night just to make sure I wasn't overlooking it. It is okay if you are not being targetted and are able to just stand on a ledge and lob nades for a while, but ground targetting everything just doesn't feel right, especially given the animation and travel times.

I stand by my assertion that the grenade kit also requires too many traits to bring it up to speed. The 3x grenade is nice, don't get me wrong, but you lose so much by doing so that it feels like you're doing a WoW-style talent tree -- you dump so many points to make one thing good that you lose your ability to use multiple weapons and kits effectively.

The chill grenade is by far the best skill in the kit, but the amount of setup it takes to land reliably isn't worth the reward. I would use Net Shot then swap to the kit, toss a chill grenade and then back to the rifle, but in this time I've probably fallen behind because all my combo has done at this point is a little bit of damage and a chilled enemy. I can see a lot of applications of a situational chill grenade, but to use a utility slot solely for this (and the Grenade Barrage) isn't worth it to me.

Basically it felt like I should have been doing far more damage for landing my grenades. The ones I landed were still doing less damage than just sitting in Rifle, and using the grenade kit while being trained isn't going to get you anywhere, especially by ranged opponents. It was fun to use and to try to succeed with but it felt plainly clear that it was one-dimensional in a spvp context. If the auto-attack ability were player-targetted, and the kit stayed on auto-attack after swaps, it would probably be a really good weapon.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck




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