Opinion: Thieves suck in PVP
Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:19 PM
I've wanted to main Thief for quite some time in GW2, after I was initially unimpressed with the Ranger the Thief suited my preferred playstyle the most. In BWE1 and 2 I played my Thief up to level 40 and got a lot of PVE experience (this game is way, WAY more fun to play in PVE than I expected). I did a good bit of structured PVP too on the Thief and a little on some other classes.
In BWE3 I did almost exclusively sPVP, on the Thief, Warrior, Ranger, Necro, and Mesmer.
Conclusion: I am no longer rolling Thief as my main or even my first alt.
1) The thief is very weak defensively. I built every class as "glass cannon-y" as I could and the Thief was the only one that I felt like I died fast on.
2) Almost all the weapons suck for PVP. You have a lot of useless abilities and generally because of the initiative system you never want to use them. There's 1-2 good abilities that you use all your initiative on and the rest are ignored.
3) Having a 2nd weapon is mostly pointless in a fight. Because initiative doesn't recharge when you switch weapons, you're never going to use a few abilities on weapon 1 and still have enough initiative to do anything on weapon 2. Even if you did, why would you? One or the other is going to have a better ability so you might as well just use all your initiative on that best ability.
4) Thief is incredibly weak in melee. You rely on Cloak and Dagger, a skill that requires a huge Initiative cost, has a cast time, and must be manually landed to actually have any effect. If you miss your C&D (opponent moved, interrupted you, knocked you down, etc) then you don't even stealth, and you're completely fucked.
5) You don't really lock down opponents as much as the other classes. Sure there are a few disables but mostly you just have speed/dodging on your side. The opponent will be free to retaliate/run away for the most part. Basically you need a partner to really lay into someone, otherwise you're not going to do much.
Really the biggest problem was the defensive issues that I had. You can't really go invisible that many times unless you're blowing big cooldowns or in melee range, and if you're not invisible then you're slowly (or quickly) losing the fight almost without question. Not to mention you can still take a TON of damage while invisible (dots, melee swings, AOE abilities still hit).
When I compared my experience on the Thief to the Warrior and Necro, it wasn't even close. I'm definitely rolling those classes before I even touch the Thief in GW2.
This is all very odd to me, I'm NEVER a "warrior guy" or "warlock/necro guy" first in MMOs/RPGs. But GW2 has shaken up my preconceptions and for now I have to abandon my first choice.
Final note: Not that this is bad for the game as a whole, I am completely enjoying the classes that I did choose, and both PVE and PVP was a lot of fun on those classes. Can't wait to play the game... just not on a Thief.
Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:24 PM
Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:45 PM
I ran a really strong "Bleed and Speed" build in BWE3 that focused on bleed stacking(Sigil of Superior Earth), extremely high crit and extremely high mobility. It was one of the few builds I actually felt had a good chance of competing with other classes and that could stay alive long enough for me to be helpful in team fights. Here comes the stress test and they not only nerfed Sigil of Superior Earth to the ground, but they also nerfed Ankle Shots and Ice Drake Venom; and they had also pushed "Fleet of Foot" deeper into Acrobatics AND gave it a 10-second cooldown prior to this recent nerf. Granted I do have another similar build that works good, but not AS good.
Melee thieves... I just feel bad for.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:28 AM
This was posted during todays stress test, Mike Ferguson is a developer at A net.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:31 AM
Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:20 AM
+ You got the normal dodge (obviously) to improve this whole evasive build
Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:57 PM
We will have to keep our eyes on this class to see if they get buffed up some, but before anyone writes a class off, wait until closer to launch. So much can and probably will change between then and now.
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Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:03 PM
Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:43 PM
Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:18 PM
If you love dodging though, they've got some great stuff.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:21 PM
like... pistol/pistol dagger/dagger or something?
Try something new thats what its about.
I played thief 80% of the BWs, mostly sPVP. And NEVER used any stealth or alike and rolled pretty good with it. If u step away from the standard crap everyone is showing off n u can get some pretty good combinations.
I would just advise u to maybe take a look at the healing skills as lil first hint on how to get a thief to withstand anything...
a thief can easylie take down 2 or 3 of 5 in an 5vs5 (depending on the enemys classes) without any problems.
just because its a thief , it doesnt mean u need to rely on backstabbing, poison n stealth lol
But yeah its hard to judge if u dont really try stuff, thats why i wouldnt judge on the warriors strenght, cause i didnt try much besides using the standard crap everyone is showing off
Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:31 PM
Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:49 PM
Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:35 AM
A. their survivability is too low, high mobility doesn't translate to survivability when you die that quickly, even with 30 acrobat and survivability in your runes.
B. You can't be both mobile and deal damage. The initiative system just doesn't allow it. So when you're playing defense you're doing almost no damage and yet still offer little to no utility other than venoms if you're using a venom build. Even when you're done being defensive you can't immediately switch to offense which is probably my biggest issue with the class.
Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:37 AM
Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:05 AM
Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:20 PM
Posted 11 August 2012 - 08:46 PM
Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:03 AM
well its really true : )
The more I play thief the more in-depth understanding I have for it's abilities and that of other classes the more I enjoy it
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