Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Skill and WoW


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Vanguards

Vanguards
  • Administrators
  • Curse Premium
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Korgath
  • Vengeance
  • Posts: 1127
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/2
  • 2v2: 2196
  • 3v3: 2772
  • 5v5: 384

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:56 AM

What is Skill?

The definition of "Skill" is the ability to do something well.

Is WoW a game that takes skill? Does it actually require people to practice? Today I'll go through several aspects in WoW PvP and also my own personal opinion on this topic.

Basics of WoW Arena

The basics of WoW PvP these days are actually somewhat demanding if you're a new player to MMORPGs. This is due to a few factors, but one would be the amount of keybindings required to even function in arenas. Besides that is also understanding the concepts of macros, setting up your character, and more.

Keybindings

When a keybinding is needed to be used in arena, it's essentially the same as having another button or combo to press in a game. Imagine a game with 4 buttons versus 40. While it's true certain abilities are spammed more than others, most classes have 10+ abilities that's frequently used in arenas and should be keybinded. 10+ keybinds which is very little for WoW (many top players have 40 or more) is already much more than the average game. While more keybinds doesn't necessary make a game harder than one with less, it certainly does make the game more challenging and require more practice for a person to adapt to.

Posted Image


Macros

Macros are different for almost every class. WoW is one of the few MMOs that I've ever played requiring a decent amount of knowledge with using macros. In order to function properly in PvP nearly every class needs macros. The knowledge of macros to experienced players is simple, but to beginners they are a hurdle to cross. One example is arena target macros. Arena target macros lets players easily get their crowd controls out without sacrificing time to target others. This makes them act faster. Getting used to macros take experience, and some people get used to advanced macros faster than others.


Gearing / Glyphs / Talents

In WoW, gearing, glyphing, and talents usually has a cookie-cutter build. With the armory being easily accessible most people can find the top level player of their class and copy them. They can also do research by looking up guides or videos. Even experienced players can find something to learn from by using top players as reference.

It's hard to say setting up your character takes "skill", but if you look at the amount of people that sets up their character wrong for PvP or PvE it's quite flabbergasting. While skill might be the wrong word, it definitely takes a lot of time and effort to set up your character correctly. Even after you get the cookie-cutter set-up down, there's still more to it. At higher ratings most players swap glyphs, spec, and gear depending on what they are matching up against or who they are playing with. PvP changes a lot depending on the situation, and "skilled" players know when to change things up to increase their chances of winning.


Posted Image


Video of my 3 Favorite Games this Season



This video shows my 3 favorite games I played in this season. Just by looking at my teammates and opponents you can definitely see "skill" involved. In the first game any regular priest would not have juked that counterspell when I was at 1% HP. In the third game the Rogue Mage Priest despite losing had great coordination in peeling my team's offensive cooldowns. This kind of coordination, in my opinion, shows skill.


The Ability to Predict


In sports and games, one thing that sets apart "skilled" players and regular ones are their ability to predict opponents. In WoW, besides predicting your opponents you also need to understand your teammates. No matter how great your communication between your team is, without understanding what your teammates are going to do your success will be limited. If you can't understand your teammates there's a high chance you'll overlap cooldowns which will cost games.


Predicting your opponents is another huge factor in WoW. Priests that can death blinds frequently, Paladins that can Hand of Sacrifice instant crowd-controls, Death Knights stealing Pain Suppression and more. All of these takes a good amount of ability and skill to predict. You have to understand the game well, understand your opponents, and be able to calmly understand the situation you're in to make these kinds of prediction. In my opinion, this is a great form of showing "skill."


Posted Image


The Mind Games


WoW has it's own little mini mind game when it comes to interrupts. Top healers are almost never interrupted on cast. It's crazy how different it is from a 2200 healer and 1500, or 2600 and 2200. Their ability to calmly juke casts is on another level. This also works the other way around with the player who is interrupting.


Besides the mini game with interrupts, there is also strategies that can play with a team's mind. Thing such as dragging a team into the room in Ruins of Lordaeron, or a Warlock jumping off Blade's Edge. The knowledge to use this positioning for a team's advantage is another huge aspect of this game. When is it right to jump down to catch that Warlock? When is it right to overextend and go in that room?


Posted Image


Strategies


Strategies is something teams talk about almost a little before every game. When I play with my team, we always have set strategies for openers so we know what to do when the gates open. Forming strategies and countering it is another part of WoW that requires "skill." The effectiveness of a strategy is something that experience and a person's ability determine. Teams who use the wrong strategies such as hitting the wrong targets will find themselves losing a lot more than a team doing it correctly. Basic strategies are always simple, which mainly include what targets to hit.


Strategies in WoW however especially at higher levels get more and more complicated. For example, a Rogue Mage Priest opening strategy versus a Retribution Paladin Death Knight Priest could be sap the Paladin, set up, open on Priest, and fear when the Priest is stunned by the rogue. After Priest uses Pain Suppression or gets Hand of Protection swap on the Retribution Paladin to force bubble, then Mass Dispel since there won't be Pain Suppression and instantly kill him. A solid strategy like this is much better than go on the Priest and do whatever you guys want. By having more valuable strategies a team can succeed more often because things will merely line up better that way.

On Demand Thinking


On demand thinking and changing strategies mid-game is very common. Lets take the Paladin Death Knight Priest for example, lets say the Death Knight Unholy Frenzies himself and the Paladin Hand of Sacrifices the Death Knight to not get sapped and charges in. What are you going to do now as the Rogue Mage Priest? You would have to adapt, try to go for a Sap on Priest and open Paladin instead. Once teams are more experienced with this Paladin Death Knight Priest, they may even make branch strategies of changing their openers around depending on how the opponents play which is what PvP is exactly about!


Playing the game, predict your opponents, know your own stuff, and do your best to win. It gets more and more complicated down the road but that's the fun of it. That's how a player improves and gets more "skilled."

Teamwork and Communication


Communication has always been hard with human beings. People have been having difficulty communicating with each other since forever. That's why it's amazing when you see a team with great coordination and synergy. Players that can understand each other really well, and communicate the rest of the gaps.


Check out this previous article I wrote on communication for some more analysis from me:


Communication and Dealing with Losses

EQ


EQ and skill is two completely different things, but in some ways they do relate with each other. EQ is after all, the reason of success to many things for human beings. Being able to maintain composure even in tight situations and making the right call is not something every player can do. In fact, many players lose it when they lose a game! I'm sure all of us have at least played with that one negative guy before who just won't stop complaining. He just loves blaming everything on someone but never himself. These are the people NO ONE wants to play with, and probably won't do well in the end either.

Personal Opinion


I personally feel WoW does take skill to play. Most if not all of this ability can be acquired through practice and a right state of mind which I feel is a good thing. There are certainly other games that require more "skill" than WoW in certain elements such as Starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 requires a player to be absolutely insane at predicting, and strategies plays an even more important role. APM in Starcraft 2 is also much higher. However at the same time I'm playing WoW because to me I feel a much stronger attachment to the game. WoW is an MMORPG before PvP, meaning you get to build your character from scratch. Starting from level 1, you're already building your character to the way you envision it, and when it caps out on level you start gearing it towards your needs. PvP nowadays has a much more set rule in gears etc, but there's still a lot of room for creativity and "skill" in how to do gearing, glyphs, reforging, gems, and more. It makes PvPers not only research on how to PvP properly, but how to make their character a proper fitting for it. For me, being attached to the game is something important when I play, and WoW has done this quite well which is why I've sticked with it for so long.


What do you guys think?

#2 Minpojke

Minpojke
  • Minpojke
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1244
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/2/0/0/0
  • 2v2: 2403
  • 3v3: 2652
  • 5v5: 957
  • RBG: 2210

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:58 AM

first xx xx
www.twitch.tv/Minpojke

#3 Poseyx

Poseyx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 1213
  • Talents: Arcane 0/0/0/2/0/2
  • LocationNY

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:58 AM

fuck that too slow

Edited by Jaxzyo, 01 August 2012 - 12:58 AM.

www.Twitch.tv/wushington - Multi Gladiator feral stream

Mrlindv - Youtube channel

#4 TteSPORTSDoomsen

TteSPORTSDoomsen
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Frostmane
  • Misery
  • Posts: 963
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/2/0/0/0
  • 2v2: 2250
  • 3v3: 3015
  • RBG: 2610
  • LocationTyskland

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:01 AM

[quote name='Jaxzyo' timestamp='1343782696' post='3737226']
fuck that too slow
[/quote]

3am in eu and still minpojke manages it to be first. well written guide

#5 Kimbielolz

Kimbielolz
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 19
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/0/2/2/.
  • LocationSweden

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:03 AM

Got damn it Minpojke is fast.
Posted Image

#6 Jontex

Jontex
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 890
  • Talents: Elemental 0/1/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1698
  • 3v3: 2620
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationSweden

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:05 AM

Never underestimate The Pojke.
Posted Image

#7 yusehz

yusehz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 763
  • Talents: ./././././.
  • RBG: 2465
  • Locationchina

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:31 AM

wheres the tldr version of this
Posted Image
www.twitch.tv/yusehz
www.youtube.com/user/yusehz/

#8 Vanguards

Vanguards
  • Administrators
  • Curse Premium
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Korgath
  • Vengeance
  • Posts: 1127
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/2
  • 2v2: 2196
  • 3v3: 2772
  • 5v5: 384

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:42 AM

I should comment right away next time to beat Minpojke.
http://twitch.tv/VanguardsTV- Stream (Follow to know when I'm live!)
http://twitter.com/VanguardsTV- Twitter
http://facebook.com/Samk920 - Facebook

http://youtube.com/SamK920 - YouTube Videos

#9 Hyrmine

Hyrmine
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3168
  • Talents: Arms 2/1/1/1/1/0

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:47 AM

[quote name='yusehz' timestamp='1343784667' post='3737247']
wheres the tldr version of this
[/quote]
An amazing DK like you can't learn anything from this guide sorry :c

#10 Synkz

Synkz
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Blood Furnace
  • Retaliation
  • Posts: 2629
  • Talents: Destruction 0/2/0/0/2/.

Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:51 AM

What's EQ?

#11 Enteyjin

Enteyjin
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 134
  • Talents: Frost 0/1/2/2/0/0
  • RBG: 2572

Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:46 AM

wow wont ever be a skill based game, always depends what comp u  run and what gear u have. u barely play against a team where it comes to who has more skill except mirror with equal gear. for example backpaddling tripple dps wins against multi r1 rls... completely retarded. so banning pve gear from arena wud take us a big step forward. but i guess there will always be teams which are getting hardcountered by other teams...
just my  2 cents

btw playing chess besides wow calms down ur nerves

#12 Lvb

Lvb
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 82
  • Talents: Elemental ./././././.
  • RBG: 2400

Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:40 AM

I disagree, with how exceptional I was it was pretty easy to beat many comps despite hard counters, but you usually have to play like a fucking pussy.

#13 Toitles

Toitles
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Wyrmrest Accord
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 677
  • Talents: Destruction 0/2/2/2/2/0
  • 2v2: 1748
  • 3v3: 2115
  • 5v5: 864
  • RBG: 1754
  • LocationOAKLAND CITY REPRESENT

Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:52 AM

[quote name='yusehz' timestamp='1343784667' post='3737247']
wheres the tldr version of this
[/quote]
tl;dr: literacy is very important.

Edited by Toitles, 01 August 2012 - 04:52 AM.

affix said:

The #1 sign that your thread was unnecessary is if the you can copy+paste the thread title in to google, hit 'I'm feeling lucky', and get your answer

#14 Hackattack3

Hackattack3
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 941
  • Talents: Destruction 1/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1609
  • 3v3: 1792
  • RBG: 2050

Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:12 AM

To the OP,

Although I enjoy your videos and effort with the website, i feel you are giving yourself a bit too much credit for pushing buttons by overly generalizing "skill".  Let's try to make some comparisons between a football quarterback and a wow player.

A quarterback can improve strength and speed through dedicated weight training.
A wow player can improve a character's base capabilities by farming the best enchants, gems, and gear.

A quarterback can greatly improve strength and speed through the use of steriods.
A wow player can go above and beyond and collect heroic gear.

A quarterback can improve on preparation by studying and planning the plays and audibles vs certain defenses.
A wow player can improve preparation by developing strategies and forumulas for beating certain compositions/opponents.  He/she can also familiarize themselves with crucial abilities and cooldowns of all classes.

A quarterback develops "skills", passing accuracy, a quick release, and footwork.
A wow player can optimize keybinds, macros, and reflexes.

#15 Naga

Naga
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 89
  • Talents: Blood 0/2/0/0/0/2
  • RBG: 2557

Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:46 AM

Quarterbacks dont have to play a new patch every other week, where his class goes from being hugely op, to being hugely up, to being average, to being hugely op, to being average, etc etc... :)

Edited by Naga, 01 August 2012 - 06:48 AM.

Posted Image

#16 rozybib_6581323

rozybib_6581323
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Garona
  • Embuscade / Hinterhalt
  • Posts: 49
  • Talents: Unholy 2/0/1/0/2/1

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:26 AM

positioning, vision, communication ( teamplay ) a bit of reactivity and do the right ability at the right time is WoW's skill.
Aim faster is most of cs/shootmania/quake 's skill.
[ none is harder, they're different, u just need practice ]

The fact is that "skill" is not the main factor in WoW, they are too many things like comp/classes/patch/gear involved.
.

#17

  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Kil'jaeden
  • Blutdurst
  • Talents: Protection 2/0/2/1/0/1
  • RBG: 2227

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

What is love? Baby dont hurt me, dont hurt me no more!

#18 hertzuk

hertzuk
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1503
  • Talents: Affliction
  • RBG: 2615
  • LocationUK

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:44 AM

[quote name='Froglure' timestamp='1343817312' post='3737360']
What is love? Baby dont hurt me, dont hurt me no more!
[/quote]


Everybody wants you, everybody wants your love. I'd just like to make you mine, all mine.




Also, WoW does require some 'skill' gained through practice. And the difference between 2 teams of the same comp where one has 'skilled' players and one has noobs is night and day.


HOWEVER, the reason WoW pvp is shit is because a 1500 triple dps (or insert other retard friendly albeit not great ladder comp here) who have never entered arena before (thus no 'skill from practice') but have legendary/heroic gear can beat players that do have skill because of comp and gear.


(also before flame, the difference between a 1500 noob filled 3dps (or insert other retard friendly albeit not great ladder comp here) and a team of 'skilled' players is also very noticeable.)

Edited by hertzuk, 01 August 2012 - 11:02 AM.

Posted Image


#19 Justwoo

Justwoo
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 494
  • Talents: Discipline 2/2/1/1/2/2

Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:24 AM

[color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3]minpojke is god[/size][/font][/color]
Posted Image

#20 gorz

gorz
  • Members
  • Posts: 155

Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:54 AM

whats eq?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<