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Rogue's Facing Massive Skillcap Reduction in MoP


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#1 Crushqt

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 09:48 PM

Mist of Pandaria, as you know, is bringing about many new changes to the game, some good and some bad in my opinion. Since my main class is rogue and I have enjoyed rogue for many years over all else I will attempt to share what I think is the end of days for rogue in the following lines.

1.) Choosing between Prep, Step, and Burst of Speed In talents is a gigantic nerf to rogues. Obviously Prep is not completely necessary but when using your extra vanish to Sap off crowd control It is always nice to have an extra so that when going for a kill you can reopen with vanish or you could potentially save yourself from death with it as well. Now Prep might be a good choice if you could live without Shadowstep or Burst of Speed but lets be honest, there is no way you will ever be able to stick to someone without you're cloak up. Plus without the extra smokebomb attached to prep its becoming a hardier decision to make, although I do like the extra cloak. This eliminates alot of your CC potential as you cannot Sap out of CC with vanish more than once every 3 minutes unless you find yourself out of combat to do so or go Night Elf and use shadow meld. By choosing prep however you would lose your ability to Shadowstep+ kick which also sucks.

2.) Rogues damage was not very good when beta first started, and in a recent attempt to buff that damage they've made it so targets that are Cheap'd, Kidney'd, Gouge'd, and Blinded take 10% more damage while under these effects, so now in order to do effective damage you can no longer realistically use Redirect+Kidney to CC someone, and you can't even begin to try and Sap attempt off it because you have only 1 vanish.

3.) Sure rogues have gained some other abilities like the deadly throw lockout option but IMO to make it effective you would have to go into the anticipation talent so that you could hold those 5 extra combo points for use when necessary and to spec into deadly throw means no more combat readiness.


So my point is, that rogues as we all know it will never be the same as it was in Cataclysm and as fun as its been over the years I fear it will become a lot less enjoyable as the skill-cap for rogue rapidly declines in MoP.

#2 FTRouslan

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:44 PM

Good. I'm glad they can't do everything now.

#3 TteSPORTSDoomsen

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:44 AM

Well, I don't mind those changes to be honest but yeah, might be because every good geared rogue killed me with barkskin up for the entire season.  I heard that mutilate rogues will be good once again, is that true? I'm not really into MoP at all.

#4 ardnut

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:20 AM

Welcome to the merry go round of wow balance... it's happened to every class (except warlocks who are our overlords and we should all bow down to them).  Warriors were good in S9 and have sucked ever since... rogue have a very good season 11 and are going to suck for a couple of seasons.  I know it's not right, but it's the way the game works.  I wish it was more balanced too.
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#5 Zaephyr

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:41 AM

THE TEARS OF ROGUES SHALL FUEL MY HAPPINESS

Edited by Zaephyr, 01 August 2012 - 08:41 AM.

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#6 Crushqt

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:42 AM

I've been doing a lot of thinking about how to make rogue somewhat viable next season before buffs most likely come in 5.3 patch. So here's what I've got so far spec wise:

http://mop.wowhead.c...-calculator#rFl

Having deadly throw you lose combat readiness but NBD in my opinion because you still have cheat death and 2 cloaks with prep & 2 evasions. However, having the 5 combo point deadly throw talent eliminates the need for SS+Kick and actually makes it easier to focus kick healers with a longer lockout and for a longer range without taking you off your target much like strangulate.

two cloaks and two sprints should be enough to keep you competitive as most of rogue is sticking to whatever you can right now anyways and actually having another cloak for a 2nd kill opportunity will be nice.

With the deadly throw however you lose the ability to focus kick whenever you want to like you had with Shadowstep so long as it was off CD you could do it whenever. So I chose Anticipation and I think with a bit of practice rogues will learn to keep the base 5 combo points at all times and operate off the extra 5 that talent gives you so that they will always have 5 combo points to use deadly throw, and at no CD it almost seems a bit overpowered although it might be someone easier to dodge like Silence shot having a travel time.

The inbetween talents are just personal preference such as Shadow Focus, Dirty Tricks and Cheat death, I feel those tiers have really nothing else that is competitive with those talents.

Hopefully with a little practice and adapting rogue will still be playable and we will still be capable of some decent control in arenas. Let me know what you think of that spec

#7 ardnut

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:37 AM

What pisses me off about rogues is that if they sit on me they lock me out of 90% of the game and I'm forced to hit them with a massive amount of dodge so I can never get my stacks of LTTS up to 3 and do some proper damage.  I wish they would keep their damage but lose some of their control.  Waddling around at 30% run speed is so fucking annoying.
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#8 WildeHilde

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:54 AM

There is still a lot of play involved, especially around the combo point managemet and poison switches mid game. Just talking about sublety here, as I did not test the other specializations, yet. You need Slice and Dice for increased energy regeneration, as well as either Garrote or Rupture on the target for the 26% increased damage taken. If you want to use kidney shots regulary this means that Recuperate will not be active most of the time.

For a succesful burst as rogue you need:

- SnD active
- Rupture/Garrote/Crimson Tempest on Target
- Expose armor with 3 stacks on target (glyph may be necessary)
- Kidney Shot
- Expose Weakness or Shadow Blades active
- Full energy bar
- Tricks of the Trade on the second DPS

This means that timing a burst correctly will be something that not many players will be able to pull of, especially without the enemy team noticing. Add cross CC to that and you have probably more than enough complexity. Rogue damage outside of the burst is pretty poor. Because of the Rupture plus Kidney requirement on the target, anticipation may be the Tier 6 talent of choice by the way.

#9 terribleperson

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

I'm sure they're going to be tweaking things a lot in the beginning of the expac, much like they did with cata. I for one, don't mind to see rogues not having everything in their bag of tricks. Their control, mobility, and damage has just been insane, especially since the induction of the legendary daggers. They haven't really had a "bad" season yet, at least in my opinion- you know, like, warriors, rets, and hunters. I'd even venture to say enhance sham/ele, too.

I think making rogues choose between core abilities rather than just having, you know, everything, is a solid idea. I just hope it doesn't leave them completely gutted with no comps worth playing.

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:23 PM

I just don't understand why you made topic with tittle as "Massive rogue skill cap nerf" and in point 2. you wrote rogue damge is not that great.

How damge is skill cap ? To do damge in Cataclysm as rogue what you need to do is take agi gems and save energy whenever you have find weekens on target. Rogues are just overpower in s11 like Warrios were in s9. Absurd talents like 25% more agi and 10% more dmg after every opener + pve gear and legendary (they can use it becasue no one can kill rogue expect other rogue ofc)

You are complaining that you need to choose beetwen prep,shadowstep or burst of speed. Did you think what caster feels when rogue sits on him all the time ? Kick, Kidney shoot, Gouge, Garrote everything on low cooldown.

Any class shouldn't have what rogue got in s11 Very high dmg,Very high amount of cc,Very high amount of defensive skills.

Actually I can't wait for MoP to see which Rogues are actually good in this game becasue right now you can't tell that. I remember in Wotkl when Rogues couldn't cloack fearie faire to vanish. Now when I watched Samx stream I m totally sure that Rogue in s11 is totally most overpower and dumb class in wow history. I remember some game in MLG Dignitas RMP vs Compelxicty Red when Kalimist when he didn't have cloack had to play defensive in stealth or he would die. In s11? No problem rogue can tank damge better than dk on start of Cataclysm ( with death strike not nerfed) duo to recup and gear scalling (high amount of hp). You can't kill rogue as caster class when they play with Resto Shaman or Discipline Priest.

I hope it will change in MoP and I will be able to watch movies from WoW of real Rogues like in Wotkl: Kalimist,Reckful,Woundman.

#11 YndigoDS

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:48 PM

If anything this increases the skill cap.
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#12 WildeHilde

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:09 PM

I sure agree. I guess a lot of rogues will chose different mains for MoP. I always thought that rogue, mage and priest should be classes that are for those that are really good and for some of the lesser ones with ideals like me. One RMP in the Top 200, but on place one.




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