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GW2 to launch 08/28/12


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#21 Ctuhlu

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 05:41 AM

Pets is something WoW actually did more or less right, and Anet should take a look at how they function in this game. AoE avoidance and uptime tools like Dive/Dash in addition to movement speed would really help minion/pet builds not be so gimped. If they move at the same speed that players do, they'll never have serious uptime. They're also really, really fragile.


The way I see it, pets are really hard to balance. I agree that WoW got it pretty close to right, specifically with "pet classes" such as MM hunters. A hunter's pet isn't its main source of damage, but the utility it provides means that a dead pet is a bad thing.

The thing is, I get the sense that a lot of players who play these pet classes want to hit the "pet, attack this target" button and then watch the target die as the pet does most of the damage. That's horrible design for both sides: either the target feels helpless because all the ranger did was sick his pet on you and now you're at 50% health and can't get the pet off of you without letting the ranger wreck your face, or the other side of the coin where the pet is so important that the ranger feels gimped if his pet dies.

I think having a pet do high damage is a really bad design idea. Pets should provide utility spells, and that's it.

The same problem exists with MM necromancers, who spec into 50 different pets and then cry when they die. Of course they have a point that the pets are too easily killed, but they expect to run a zookeeper set up and simply win by hitting the petattack command. It sucks for everyone.
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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


#22 Pirated

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:30 PM

I predicted that we'd get a release date this month, but I thought the game would be out late july, not late august

o well

I'm going to try engineer next BWE, how does this build look?

http://www.gw2tools....aYXa;bbaa;YZbUZ
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#23 Lucrece

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:41 PM

The way I see it, pets are really hard to balance. I agree that WoW got it pretty close to right, specifically with "pet classes" such as MM hunters. A hunter's pet isn't its main source of damage, but the utility it provides means that a dead pet is a bad thing.

The thing is, I get the sense that a lot of players who play these pet classes want to hit the "pet, attack this target" button and then watch the target die as the pet does most of the damage. That's horrible design for both sides: either the target feels helpless because all the ranger did was sick his pet on you and now you're at 50% health and can't get the pet off of you without letting the ranger wreck your face, or the other side of the coin where the pet is so important that the ranger feels gimped if his pet dies.

I think having a pet do high damage is a really bad design idea. Pets should provide utility spells, and that's it.

The same problem exists with MM necromancers, who spec into 50 different pets and then cry when they die. Of course they have a point that the pets are too easily killed, but they expect to run a zookeeper set up and simply win by hitting the petattack command. It sucks for everyone.


The worst thing they could do for the Ranger, mesmer, or necro is shift damage to pets. Enough damage so it doesn't feel like fluff while the utility is on cooldown, but the pet should be there for utility and player assistance.

In that way, uptime is critical, because you need that utility at that specific moment, and GW2's model makes pets rather crappy by a) making them walk at the same speed as players while being hindered by AI pathing and aoe slows, b ) being particularly fragile, and c) not having enough utility for the cooldown of reviving them.
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#24 friendliestguyonaj

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:44 PM

Definitely take Invigorating Speed for Deadly Mixtures and Fireforged Trigger for Napalm Specialist. You can make some more changes but that's the musts.
What you're intending to play is this:

Link to the build is in the description.
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#25 Pirated

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:57 PM

ty, that's a great video

I'm not sure about those traits, but I'll give both a try
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#26 infectionx

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:57 PM

You guys seem pretty into it,oh well i just hope the game will live up to my expectations and is hopefully gonna be more than anything FUN to play ^_^
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#27 Ctuhlu

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 10:16 PM

I predicted that we'd get a release date this month, but I thought the game would be out late july, not late august o well I'm going to try engineer next BWE, how does this build look? http://www.gw2tools....aYXa;bbaa;YZbUZ


Here's the engineer build that I settled on after hours of tweaking in the last beta weekend and stress test: http://gw2.luna-atra...k9va3aqbibmk9ka

One thing to keep in mind is that currently the engineer kits are completely unuseable as "weapons" (even though that build uses three kits). They are really only good for certain spells (the line of fire from the flame thrower, the fire bomb, the healing puddle). They really shine when you use them for combo fields. The trait that says "equipping a kit creates a spell" is AMAZING for the elixir gun as it drops a healing combo field that allows you to remove conditions on yourself when you shoot the pistol through it. Engineer combos are really really good. Another good thing is that we are lucky that all three toolbelt skills for the elixir-flamethrower-bomb kits are really good (usually better than the kits themselves).

If you are wanting to try engineer, let me say this. They are really, REALLY fun. They feel very hybrid-y (in terms of how you play, not in terms of damage-and-healing), kind of like the form-swapping "Druid" style that WoW never really achieved due to talent specialization.

Conversely, they are currently extremely weak. ArenaNet has said that they know Engineers are way behind other classes so come BWE3 they might be in a better place, but if you play an engineer, expect to get stomped hard -- especially while you learn the class. Eventually you can compete with other classes but it does feel as though your firepower isn't up to par (don't expect to do high damage).
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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


#28 Pirated

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 10:24 PM

I'm confident that a double pistol condition damage build will do solid damage--your build is interesting, but I'd be uneasy about playing without a stun break
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#29 friendliestguyonaj

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 11:02 PM

Conversely, they are currently extremely weak.


They're absolutely not.
Try this http://www.gw2tools....aYaa;bYaa;YbTjZ
Last 5 points in either Firearms (Target the Weak is pgood for this build) or Tools (25% more Endurance is always nice). Depends on what you prefer.
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#30 Ctuhlu

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 03:40 AM

I'm confident that a double pistol condition damage build will do solid damage--your build is interesting, but I'd be uneasy about playing without a stun break


The "equipping a kit creates a spell" trait allows you to break stuns when you swap a kit. Not sure if it's intended as it's pretty OP.
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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


#31 Blowi

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 12:29 PM

I disagree with Engineers being extremely weak compared to others lol. Having played a lot of games with Teldo, and faced a lot of engineers, they are just not good enough to judge the profession.
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#32 friendliestguyonaj

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 12:42 PM

Basically what I experienced so far.
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#33 Ctuhlu

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 04:17 PM

I disagree with Engineers being extremely weak compared to others lol. Having played a lot of games with Teldo, and faced a lot of engineers, they are just not good enough to judge the profession.


Surely you're joking -- someone created a spreadsheet of the damage of each class and their mathematical DPS was shown to be something like 41% lower than the next worst class. Warriors had about 60% higher dps than Engineers. Engineers might have a lot of utility but it's not really fair when every other class has the equivalent of a +40% damage buff. I'll see if I can find a link to the graphs.

Edited by Ctuhlu, 01 July 2012 - 04:17 PM.

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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


#34 friendliestguyonaj

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 05:18 PM

Spreadsheets are nice but in reality engineers deal the most damage out of any class on Nifhel.
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#35 Lucrece

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 06:48 PM

Even at that handicap, control wins you games, and engineers can turtle well enough and keep people out of points to be powerhouses for Conquest formats.

I think what people lament is that engineers do not get a forgiving burst build like some other classes do.
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#36 Pirated

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:37 PM

Surely you're joking -- someone created a spreadsheet of the damage of each class and their mathematical DPS was shown to be something like 41% lower than the next worst class. Warriors had about 60% higher dps than Engineers. Engineers might have a lot of utility but it's not really fair when every other class has the equivalent of a +40% damage buff. I'll see if I can find a link to the graphs.

sounds like a PvE thing

most engineers I fought were retarded, and I'm confident I can play better than them after trying shit on the target dummies for 10 minutes
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#37 friendliestguyonaj

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:41 PM

I think what people lament is that engineers do not get a forgiving burst build like some other classes do.

That's just not true though.
Slick shoes into bombs is extremely easy to execute and deals ridiculous damage.
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#38 Smellyead

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:49 PM

Engineers are almost fine. Need some buffs to the kits and a couple of utilities but nothing major is wrong with them in my opinion.

I think they need to rework some utilities and their tool belt abilities, like Slick Shoes, the utility is fine but the toolbelt is abit naff due to the long CD for such a short burst. 3s of double sped on 45sec CD.
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#39 Ctuhlu

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:33 PM

engineers deal the most damage out of any class on Nifhel.


???
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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


#40 friendliestguyonaj

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:46 PM

Slick shoes are very easy to apply on Nifhel and if you can't get out of the knockdown or the following immobilize you're pretty much dead unless you run some tank build.


I think they need to rework some utilities and their tool belt abilities, like Slick Shoes, the utility is fine but the toolbelt is abit naff due to the long CD for such a short burst. 3s of double sped on 45sec CD.


What?
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