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#1 WildeHilde

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:13 PM

Read, vote up, share: http://eu.battle.net...opic/4735833681

#2 YndigoDS

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:32 PM

can i have a TLDR version?
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#3 WildeHilde

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:47 PM

View PostYndigoDS, on 16 June 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

can i have a TLDR version?

1. Click on link
2. Click on vote up
3. Reply with "Very good thread. Rasen really has written something that Blizzard should look into."
4. Threads to switch to GW:2 if they don't implement the changes give a bonus

#4 YndigoDS

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:32 PM

but what did he write :c
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#5 WildeHilde

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:47 PM

He argues, that gear is essentially a bad thing for arena (not bgs/open pvp) and wants Blizzard to give us sets of basic gear for arena. This is especially for alts, as gearing up takes forever and even the fastest players cannot really enjoy their classes in pvp for some weeks. Equal gear means that matches are a lot more skill-dependant. In other words: Look how GW:2 does it and copy it.

#6 YndigoDS

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:03 AM

meh. lazy people are lazy
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#7 Jacquelol

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:20 PM

they will never remove the gear aspect of wow, and simply copy the GW2 style.

But infact blizzard is probly happy with the way things are atm, how the competetive pvp on tournament realm is about skill not gear.
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#8 NircoticS

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:18 AM

i understand  why he wants to do this, but and this is a big but, WOW is a grinding game that makes it fun. Where GW2 isnt a grinfing game. I am not saying GW2 doen't have grinding dont get me wrong. But like Jacquel said they wont take the gear away and try to copy a new game. WOW isnt  rift  :P

#9 WildeHilde

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:47 AM

WoW is actually a complete copy-cat game, they invented very few things and copied from many different MMOs over the past years. GW:2 is the first MMO of the next generation and I think that WoW will copy some stuff there. For example the new talents and glyphs are heavily inspired from GW:2. Arena has always been a part of the game that Blizzard did not feel to comfortable with. If they would turn into a mini-game, that did not hand out powerful gear and move that to BGs/RBGs/OpenPVP instead it would actually benefit them.

Disconnected from the pve gear rotation the seasons could be shorter and constant tournaments with little set-up time would be fantastic, too. In order to keep the tournaments going Blizzard would have to either keep the TR open for the whole expansion or remove gear farming from the equation. If Blizzard realizes how much easier things become for them, once arenas have separate gear, that could easily be adjusted for balance reasons, while keeping the gear grind in the battlegrounds, they could actually decide to do it.

If we want that to happen, we have to keep naggin them over and over and over.

#10 FTRouslan

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:49 AM

While I do think gear should be part of the process, I think it shouldn't scale too far over skill and it definitely shouldn't be a free handout. I'd love a return to rating based gear pieces. You get x gear at x rating. Higher rating, more pieces you can obtain. You know, the BC/wrath method.

Idk what to convince other people to continuously queue otherwise.

#11 WildeHilde

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:01 AM

Cosmetic rewards, like a mount you can only use while having a certain rating. Would become unavailable if you did not play at least ten games with the team having the rating in the past two weeks or if the rating drops below the needed rating.

Give current rank one teams a cosmetic debuff that causes an aura on all players around them "You feel diminished in the presence of X".

Make online tournaments that require a certain rank to participate in.

Make a special duelling/hanging out area, only accesible if you have a certain rating or a certain title.

While I understand that rewards for ratings are necessary and good and that we would need more of these, gear is not the right option, pvp gets better the more equal the gear is. Equal gear would also remove a lot of the "they outgeared us" excuses. If it would be accepted, that if you lost, it is because you played worse (like in SC:2 for example) the whole competition would improve drasticaly.

#12 ardnut

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 09:17 AM

Hilde for president (of Blizzard)!!!!

Voted up and made the empty threat to leave for GW2 :)  Still a warcrack addict regardless of the shitty balance
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#13 YndigoDS

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 11:47 AM

perma tourny realm please.

that is litterally all that has to be done.
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#14 Vulcon

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 02:27 PM

Gear is one of those things that should not be a factor and The OP of the article is completely right.  Things like the TR year round would be awsome also.  They should also keep PvE gear out of RBG's and arena's.    They dont want people to PvP to gain an edge in PvE but they allow it the other way around.  With the new system in MoP this shouldnt be much of an issue anymore.

The grind is crazy for the gear and it just takes up too much time.  if you have multiple 85's like I do its just a chore to try and fit in capping them all each week.  Plus grinding pve content each week to possibly obtain a BiS items is the new meta game for PvP.

Putting a rating requirement on gear was never a good thing and having this system is what drives carries and sells.  Also it once again makes gear the deciding factor over skill.  When it was 1800 for T1, 1950 helm and 2k for shoulders with T2 at 2200 any player(s) trying to improve would hit a brickwall around 1750-1800 due to gear and you would loose countless games simply because you were not able to deal the same amount of dmg or take the same amount of dmg as these other players.

PvP should be all about skill.  The availability of gear should play no factor in deciding the outcome.  Swaping in a piece of gear here and there and changing your gems, enchant etc(your setup) still should but everyone should have that same option.

Look at every top tier PvP game out there....they are all about skill vs skill.  Everyone is given the same tools and options and its up to the players to use them as they see fit to best their opponent.  This is what WoW should be.

#15 ardnut

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostVulcon, on 18 June 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Gear is one of those things that should not be a factor and The OP of the article is completely right.  Things like the TR year round would be awsome also.  They should also keep PvE gear out of RBG's and arena's. They dont want people to PvP to gain an edge in PvE but they allow it the other way around.  With the new system in MoP this shouldnt be much of an issue anymore.

The grind is crazy for the gear and it just takes up too much time.  if you have multiple 85's like I do its just a chore to try and fit in capping them all each week.  Plus grinding pve content each week to possibly obtain a BiS items is the new meta game for PvP.

Putting a rating requirement on gear was never a good thing and having this system is what drives carries and sells.  Also it once again makes gear the deciding factor over skill.  When it was 1800 for T1, 1950 helm and 2k for shoulders with T2 at 2200 any player(s) trying to improve would hit a brickwall around 1750-1800 due to gear and you would loose countless games simply because you were not able to deal the same amount of dmg or take the same amount of dmg as these other players.

PvP should be all about skill.  The availability of gear should play no factor in deciding the outcome.  Swaping in a piece of gear here and there and changing your gems, enchant etc(your setup) still should but everyone should have that same option.

Look at every top tier PvP game out there....they are all about skill vs skill.  Everyone is given the same tools and options and its up to the players to use them as they see fit to best their opponent.  This is what WoW should be.

If this was true (brick wall) then a top player would not be able to out play you if you had a better geared character than him.  I'd bet money that the top player would still be able to out play you and win.

Gear is a factor and I agree it shouldn't be...but people blame things other than there skill for losses sometimes and it pisses me off.  If I play against Barb/hoodrych/(insert top player for your class here) and I have an HC Gurth and str trinket and they are full pvp i'm probably still gonna lose.
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#16 Vulcon

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 04:25 PM

I wasnt sayin that top lvl players would have an issue.  I clearly stated(atleast I thought I did) is that players who are looking to improve would hit a brick wall of sorts.  Those who are starting to PvP for the first time or those who might be around the 1700-1800 lvl and looking to improve up to 2k or 2.2k would have a harder time at doing it.  Players like any of the ones who are currently playing in the NAO and other Tournaments would still outplay someone like me regardless of this issue.   This isnt too much of an issue right now but back in WOTLK it was.  

By not making all of the gear available to all players it does create a handicap.

If you took 2 players who are at the same skill lvl and make them both use the same gear it becomes who can outplay who.  Now force one player to use T1 and the other to use T2....someoene by default has an advantage.  Now make it even worse by having that same player with the T1 use last seasons shoulders and helm......

I agree people use the gear excuse for loosing all the time and most of the time its not vaild.  However, why can we just not remove the "gear" issue all together.

#17 WildeHilde

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 04:48 PM

One of the biggest points for me is gearing alts. In GW:2 or on the TR it takes me maybe 20 minutes to set up a character. In MoP I have to level 85-90, start farming honor, start collecting gear while playing against teams with better gear than me, organize gold for enchants and profession bonusses etc. I am okay with an alt taking some hours to prepare, but right now it simply takes too long.

#18 YndigoDS

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 05:11 PM

ah the benefits of only really playing one character :3
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#19 Vulcon

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 05:23 PM

I agree there...I currently have 7 85's and trying to (although only 4 need points still)keep them all capped each week is not easy....plus it doesnt leave alot of time for me to actually play my main.  Its going to suck even worse come MoP as I have 2 main teams and they are on 2 separate servers and the 4 players are all different people so I have to power lvl 2 toons and gear them all at once.  One is gonna end up behind big time for the first season.

#20 FTRouslan

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 06:14 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 18 June 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Cosmetic rewards, like a mount you can only use while having a certain rating. Would become unavailable if you did not play at least ten games with the team having the rating in the past two weeks or if the rating drops below the needed rating.

Give current rank one teams a cosmetic debuff that causes an aura on all players around them "You feel diminished in the presence of X".

Make online tournaments that require a certain rank to participate in.

Make a special duelling/hanging out area, only accesible if you have a certain rating or a certain title.

While I understand that rewards for ratings are necessary and good and that we would need more of these, gear is not the right option, pvp gets better the more equal the gear is. Equal gear would also remove a lot of the "they outgeared us" excuses. If it would be accepted, that if you lost, it is because you played worse (like in SC:2 for example) the whole competition would improve drasticaly.

They'd have to be some pretty sick cosmetic rewards. Cosmetic rewards aren't enough to consistently keep people queueing.

I'm just concerned about gear progression in PvP. As long as gear isn't the largest deciding factor at times (alright warlock sham beats great but undergeared warlock sham), then I could live with it.





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