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RLS vs Thug Cleave

RLS TC

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#1 Nicetrylawl

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:55 PM

We are running into some problems going against Thug Cleave (with a priest) as RLS at 2300, it is only one team that is giving us troubles.

Anyways, their opener usually consists of a sap on shaman, open on lock and blinding the rogue, after which a sap. We are 2-2 against them, both of the wins were while sitting on hunter, but we don't have a definite strategy against them.

They end up controlling our shaman way too much, even though hes max ranging them and we get most of traps.

Anybody have any tips for our opener/general strat etc.

Thanks

#2 Canadianpimp_613638

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:37 PM

I would sit by your warlock and shaman and open on the rogue with a bomb regardless of who they go on. Thug cleave has insane openers and this defensive bomb will stop a lot of their opening pressure. I recommend cheap shotting the rogue, to a gouge to a kidney. Here's where you should swap on the hunter with a blind on the priest and a howl on the rogue, which will force at least one trinket. From there, just try and have your shaman hex the rogue on cooldown and you don't really need to touch him. Landing a kill on the hunter can be tough sometimes, so you can swap onto the priest for a kill when you have dance/redirect and your lock has a Soul Swap. Just make sure to have a howl or hex for the rogue though at this time or your swap can backfire. As long as you and your team can predict swaps onto yourself, you shouldn't be in too much danger although Thug Cleave kills rogues better than most comps. Generally you want to wait until the Smoke Bombs and Rapid Fires have been used though before considering swaps to the priest.

#3 Nicetrylawl

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:07 AM

Alright, we'll try opening up on the rogue tomorrow and see how that goes.

#4 Warrlokk

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:36 AM

Honestly, if your rogue is just sitting in a blind > sap, that is the key thing imo that is causing your downfall. Keeping your rogue in action will easily reduce the Thug Cleave's pressure with just a dance where he just spams cheap on the rogue/hunter or even just a defensive bomb. Apart from that, I would suggest your shaman putting ES on the lock at the start and dropping a magma totem or w/e it is on the warlock to try knock the rogue out before he gets his opener. Another thing to look out for is cool down management for the bombs. It goes without saying that both the warlock and rogue should save trinket for bomb. However for the second a simple disarm on the hunter and a kindey on their rogue will leave you with a lot of room to recover should things go baddly

I never had problems with Thug Cleave whilst running RLS at 2500, but its all about stopping that opener. After their opener is down and you've survived the second bomb, you can simply just roll out the dots and watch them die as your shaman runs around spamming one spell.

Edited by Warrlokk, 30 May 2012 - 11:11 AM.

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#5 Nicetrylawl

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:44 AM

View PostWarrlokk, on 30 May 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

Honestly, if your rogue is just sitting in a blind > sap, that is the key thing imo that is causing your downfall. Keeping your rogue in action will easily reduce the Thug Cleave's pressure with just a dance where he just spams cheap on the rogue/hunter or even just a defensive bomb. Apart from that, I would suggest your shaman putting ES on the lock at the start and dropping a searing totem on the warlock to try knock the rogue out before he gets his opener. Another thing to look out for is cool down management for the bombs. It goes without saying that both the warlock and rogue should save trinket for bomb. However for the second a simple disarm on the hunter and a kindey on their rogue will leave you with a lot of room to recover should things go baddly

I never had problems with Thug Cleave whilst running RLS at 2500, but its all about stopping that opener. After their opener is down and you've survived the second bomb, you can simply just roll out the dots and watch them die as your shaman runs around spamming one spell.

If I trinket the blind/sap at the very start, they just switch to me and kill me in a bomb while having all of their cooldowns still up.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:42 AM

View PostNicetrylawl, on 30 May 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

If I trinket the blind/sap at the very start, they just switch to me and kill me in a bomb while having all of their cooldowns still up.

this will happen everytime. any good thug cleave will absolutely try to get the rogues trinket and kill him in a dance bomb. he is without question the easiest target to kill when he has no trinket.

#7 Nicetrylawl

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:35 PM

View Postbrosearch, on 30 May 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

this will happen everytime. any good thug cleave will absolutely try to get the rogues trinket and kill him in a dance bomb. he is without question the easiest target to kill when he has no trinket.

Yep, so, we're going to try to open on the rogue today.

Our opener before was just basically get a cs on the hunter before he gets an aimed shot off.

#8 Saru93

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:52 PM

Your Rogue shouldn't trinket anything else than a Stunlock in a Bomb. Also tell your Shaman to be on top of the Warlocks port in case he is getting trapped and the lock ports immediately.

#9 Ccal

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:45 PM

I have learned that a defensive smoke bomb during the rapid fire and dance is great.

That stops the scatter/silence shot into a full trap and the dmg from the hunter which is a big problem during rapid fire.

What really gives me trouble is when they go on the rogue, which basically makes the game slower to us in which case your warlock got to get some cc on the priest or else its pretty much gg.

#10 TwistedWoW

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:04 PM

Sap the opposing teams priest in LOS of your lock/shaman and have your lock put up full dots ASAP (your lock should dot and the shaman should heal or, if in range, purge to get into combat).  If your shaman can't get into combat and he gets sapped, make sure you play really defensively behind your pillar until he comes out of sap (if you're in the open, it makes it really easy for the hunter/rogue to get an opener off and force CDs).  Your goal here is to stay LOS of hunter long enough to make their opener less effective.

If everything goes right and both of you get into combat, have your warlock continue spamming dots into the priest until either the hunter or rogue come out of stealth.  Most likely the hunter will reveal himself first by moving in camo.  Have your lock get him out with rain of fire and/or his pet.  Open on the hunter and have your lock dot him up as well.  As soon as the rogue opens, blind him.  If he does not trinket, sap him out of it.  Continue training hunter to the best of your ability while your lock puts up dots on everything.  If rogue sits the entire CC chain, you can swap to priest with demon soul once you have enough dots up.  If he doesn't, switch and train the rogue with CC's up on the priest/hunter.  Remember that the entire time while you all are doing this, the warlock should either be playing on top of the shaman or the shaman should be standing on top of the lock port so the lock can eat traps for him (kind of obvious when the hunter's going to trap, he'll either scatter and run towards him or monkey blind and run towards him; just make sure communication is effective.)

Once you've forced some of their cooldowns, it should be an easy win as long as you prevent the scatter -> trap -> blind combination from going off.

Other things to remember:
ALWAYS focus gouge, dismantle, or kidney the opposing rogue's shadow dance.
Try to LOS the hunter as much as possible.
Try to pull back towards your side of the map so that it forces their team to overextend and become vulnerable to CC/switches.
Never let your shaman get trapped.
Stay spread out to avoid getting cluster feared.

All in all, RLS vs. priest thug cleave isn't that bad of a match-up.  You just have to make sure a few things don't happen and you can win by out-pressuring them.

Good luck!
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