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hunter pvp noob help beginner

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#1 Bodoma

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:19 PM

Hello there my lovely fellow AJ users. I said I would post a video showcasing myself in the arena, and here is about 21 minutes of footage from one day of playing 3's at 1600-1800 MMR. I didn't include 2's footage because the video would be too damn big, but I'll upload another one later on if this gets some positive results. Any comments, critiques, anything constructive is most definitely welcome. Negative comments are to be expected, but unwelcome nonetheless.

Without further ado, I present to you my nabby Hunter skills.



The Thugcleave with the Resto Druid was with a Rogue I played with for a day or so before forming this team. The Ur Nan Iz Bad Cleave is with my 2v2 partner, a Ret Pala named Vanquisherz and a Disc Priest I picked up from trade who is a Rival from last season and an Arena Master on his Resto Shaman. Kind of whiny though, but eh.

Also, I do realize that I called Shadowcleave Shadowplay a couple of times, so yeah. Whoops. Let me know what you guys think. And if you have comments on how the video is rendered, let me know that as well.

:D Bodo.

View PostYsmerion, on 04 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

"Queue" is actually the longest word in English language that can be said with only word letter, "q".

#2 WildeHilde

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:11 AM

I like, that you put up this video and looking for advice. I spent my +rep for today, but you would definitely deserve that. I do not play hunter, but noticed some details.

1.) Your pet doesn't attack quite often after summoning and you seem to send them on the target later.
2.) Your traps get eaten a lot because the enemy team stands close together, when you scatter.
3.) Your monkey stun and silence shot work like a charm. Do you use arena1/2/3 macros for that?

#3 Poseyx

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:27 AM

Some things i noticed,

Vs rogue teams that go on you, you generally will disengage and freedom, try to use one or the other dont use both at same time, also try to hold disengage till rogue steps so you can limit his damage and pressure

Also id use scatter as your monkey stun, its a lot easier to money > trap than it is scatter > trap doesn't register with some teams that are a bit lower mmr so they'd less likey eat your traps.
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#4 Bodoma

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 02:31 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 25 May 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

I like, that you put up this video and looking for advice. I spent my +rep for today, but you would definitely deserve that. I do not play hunter, but noticed some details.

1.) Your pet doesn't attack quite often after summoning and you seem to send them on the target later.
2.) Your traps get eaten a lot because the enemy team stands close together, when you scatter.
3.) Your monkey stun and silence shot work like a charm. Do you use arena1/2/3 macros for that?

Cheers buddy. <3

1) I generally keep my pet on passive and beside me. I found that there are too many variables when sending them out, such as distance to pet stun target, aoe damage, etc. I need to figure out a way to safely attack with my pet and also reel him in when it comes time for a CC chain.

2) DID YOU SEE THAT MAGE BLINK AND INSTA-EAT MY TRAP?! WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. Sometimes it can't be helped. To be honest, in the matches I put in here I wasn't exactly slaying. I put up this video to get critiqued because I still have a lot of work to do.

3) I do not. I have nomodifier target and shift modifier focus macros for both of those spells, plus scatter shot, tranq shot, and concussive shot. I don't know if you noticed in the video but I target and focus through Gladius, not through arena enemy macros. I don't know how people bind arena targeting macros, but I need to look into it.

View PostJaxzyo, on 25 May 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Some things i noticed,

Vs rogue teams that go on you, you generally will disengage and freedom, try to use one or the other dont use both at same time, also try to hold disengage till rogue steps so you can limit his damage and pressure

Also id use scatter as your monkey stun, its a lot easier to money > trap than it is scatter > trap doesn't register with some teams that are a bit lower mmr so they'd less likey eat your traps.

I know I do that vs. rogues, and it's a terrible habit, but it's one of my panic reactions. For some reason I feel like I need to freedom and disengage to get away.

You're right about the monkey stun, though. Would help me not get my traps eaten. The thing is I always feel like I need to be doing a million things in arena so I sometimes will launch my trap in quite bad positioning. It's cost me a few games, honestly.

Thanks a lot for the feedback guys, I appreciate it a lot.

Keep it coming!

View PostYsmerion, on 04 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

"Queue" is actually the longest word in English language that can be said with only word letter, "q".

#5 ardnut

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:08 AM

I gotta agree with the monkey > trap thing.  I always instant intervene when I hear scatter... I don't when I hear monkey stun.  I don't understand why hunters use scatter... is it not easier with monkey stun because they are stood still?  Didn't get time to watch it all but you seem to tunnel one target a lot.  A few more switches would be nice... especially onto the healer after he trinkets.

I would suggest you watch the thug cleave from the tournaments, especially against WLS http://sv.twitch.tv/...wow/b/318855725.  The way they open just destroys the WLS and makes them use nearly all their cool downs just in the opener.  Never mind the two incoming smoke bombs and hunter CC chain.  You always use your scatter trap on the healer...they used it on a dps and opened the healer sometimes, the rogue stuns/garrote stopped a dispel, plus I think the hunter covered the trap with hunters mark or your druid could cover it with fearie fire.  Good to have different openers, because if you open the same all the time they will get used to it and have a strategy ready for you.

Good luck mate.  I hope to post my own video of me being bad soon so you can get your own back :)
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#6 Jacquelol

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:16 AM

abit better resource management.
flare is ur best buddy! start your cc chains on healer quick and with good cordination.

In a stealth heavy combo like thug with restodruid have your restodruid open with a cyclone to get momentum faster. ofc this varies but generaly smarter
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#7 Joxi

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:47 AM

Well I've noticed a couple of things myself.

1) VS RLS around 6:00 u got  a trap eaten by grounding which was down for quiet a while. Use your pet's growl or auto attack it to kill it then go for a trap.
2) I also agree on Monkey>trap rather then Scatter >trap when it's available. While talking about monkey stun when u're using roar of sacrifice it seems as if you panic sometimes cause your teamm8 is in trouble and forget to use monkey's cc before dismissing. Try to use both monkey stun and roar of sacrifice before dismissing at all times.
3)When you use Rapid Fire I've noticed you mostly do only steady shots and chimera shots. I'd advice u use rapid fire with a bit more focus and try to land a aimed shot rather then those 2  steady shots u land. U more less use rapid fire when u are low on focus from what i've noticed. Also try to have the healer in cc.
4) Unbind your backpeddle button. :P
5) Do not stay on line of sight of the dps and out of line of sight from the healer when you are in trouble, Try to be as much as possible  in line of sight of your healer.
6) Use focus 1,2,3 because untill you click to focus target it takes a while and you can lose good opportunities for CC.
7) Let your teamm8s cc end before using yours, coordinate for chain cc, do not overlap.

So far that's all I've noticed. Hope it helps :)

#8 YndigoDS

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

i only got to watch a little bit of the video, i'll come back and watch the rest when i have some spare time.

Some things i picked up:
-Slacky targeting
-Traps getting eaten
-Trapping into grounding twice, which lost you a game
-choppy gameplay in general



Targeting:

You don't use arena1,2,3 macros, which i don't either - you should look into getting that. F1,F2,F3 are common binds for that.
You also lost target at some point and instead of just instantly clicking on gladius you tried to click on the character which you didint quite get and you lost alot of pressure on that. If you don't use target macros, you really need to be instantly on that gladius bar it's really essential to keep pressure up.

Traps getting eaten:

Now this is one of the hardest things about playing a  hunter. But honestly, this is 50% awareness and 50% experience. Look around before you trap, keep notice of where everyones at and dont be afraid to use conc shot on healer for bigger chance of landing trap. (also monkey stun trap > scatter shot trap)

Trapping into grounding:

This is something that is very essential that you do not do, seriously. It will cost you games, keep an eye out for it. when playing against a shaman, always look for the grounding totem symbol and get it down asap!



choppy gameplay in general:

What i mean by this is that you seem to stumble around alot trying to figure out what to do. And when something happens that you dont expect you seem to tend to panic a little bit and use cds that weren't needed at all. You need to keep calm at all times and analyze the situation. Now that may seem stupid, but it's the truth, keeping calm is one of the most valuable skills you can have in pretty much everything.
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#9 Hyuru

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:11 AM

game1

0:35 you go on dk, rogue is on rogue (need to communicate better, to target the same target)
1:08 you scattershot the shaman, and even though you're right next to him- you choose to use traplauncher
1:32 your druid doesnt call out that he's popping his treeform, making your rogue waste his last vanish
1:42 you disengaged into a horrible position (disengaging onto the start of the bridge would be better because it took you forever to get back into the fight (or disenage to the same side druid jumped) you were in no position to help your rogue out in any way where you were.

game3

3:29 you disengage and freedom before the step, you couldof just concussive shot the rogue and he wouldnt have been able to catch up to you
3:54 you cancel the dismiss pet : (
3:56 your rogue sais he kicks the pennance and blinds the priest right after (shouldof waited the lockout duration before blinding)
4:33 you miss the trap :D
5:50 you didnt kill grounding :(
7:27 you had dettrence off cd, on 20% hp fully dotted, you shouldof used it :(

game4

9:20 you scatter and monkeystun the warrior with dots on him, you shouldof used snake trap or frost trap instead, the root is way better for peeling in those scenarios
10:30 is your rogue peeling for your druid at all? :s

to lazy to do the rest, shorter clips next time pls

edit: you need to be ccing more, try scattertrap on cd pmuch (position yourself to do exactly that)

Edited by Hyuru, 25 May 2012 - 09:12 AM.

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#10 ardnut

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:34 AM

View PostHyuru, on 25 May 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

game1

0:35 you go on dk, rogue is on rogue (need to communicate better, to target the same target)
1:08 you scattershot the shaman, and even though you're right next to him- you choose to use traplauncher
1:32 your druid doesnt call out that he's popping his treeform, making your rogue waste his last vanish
1:42 you disengaged into a horrible position (disengaging onto the start of the bridge would be better because it took you forever to get back into the fight (or disenage to the same side druid jumped) you were in no position to help your rogue out in any way where you were.

game3

3:29 you disengage and freedom before the step, you couldof just concussive shot the rogue and he wouldnt have been able to catch up to you
3:54 you cancel the dismiss pet : (
3:56 your rogue sais he kicks the pennance and blinds the priest right after (shouldof waited the lockout duration before blinding)
4:33 you miss the trap :D
5:50 you didnt kill grounding :(
7:27 you had dettrence off cd, on 20% hp fully dotted, you shouldof used it :(

game4

9:20 you scatter and monkeystun the warrior with dots on him, you shouldof used snake trap or frost trap instead, the root is way better for peeling in those scenarios
10:30 is your rogue peeling for your druid at all? :s

to lazy to do the rest, shorter clips next time pls

edit: you need to be ccing more, try scattertrap on cd pmuch (position yourself to do exactly that)

Awesome advise :)
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#11 Bodoma

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:05 AM

<3 <3 <3 <3 thanks a lot for the feedback guys, I'm noting every single thing you just said.

As for the traps getting eaten by grounding, I assure you that does not happen to me most of the time. I fucked up, especially against the WLS.

I do indeed as someone said focus a lot on one target. The problem is I don't really trust my teammates because they change so often, I don't really get the chance to build a connection with them, understand their gameplay, or know if they will call out a grounding or if they get scattered (before the bloody trap comes out) or yada yada yada. So I feel like I need to control every single thing, and that's where the panic comes from. And I'm always afraid, when playing with higher rated people, that if we lose a game they will just be like "OMFG SCRUBS" and just leave. It's a lot more difficult to find decent teammates as a hunter than it is as a healer.

The only person I've consistently played with is Vanquisherz, the Ret Pala, but I don't know if he panics or if he is just too focused on nuking, but if you noticed against the RMP in Ring of Valor, he never bubbled. He does things like that more often than he should, tbh, and things like not call out that he's going to HoJ or repent until after he actually does it. He's in general a spot on player, to be honest.

Actually, also, if you noticed, you hear my voice a LOT more than anybody else who is playing with me. /shrug

But thanks for the advice about my gameplay, especially Hyuru's tip on using snake or frost as a peel instead of scatter or pet stun. <3

Cheers guys, keep it coming. Be relentless if you need to.

View PostYsmerion, on 04 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

"Queue" is actually the longest word in English language that can be said with only word letter, "q".

#12 Hyuru

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:07 AM

to be honest, i think the reasson why you don't get higher rating is more because of cooridnation/overview of what's going on tbh.

You, your rogue and druid needs to line up your cc better, with your comp you should be able to have atleast 1 and prefferably 2 targets cc'ed at all times, Monkeyblind -> Trap -> Silencing shot -> Scatter -> Cyclone should ATLEAST force a trinket on their healer at that rating or defensive cooldowns from your killtarget (people don't really know how to peel at all >2200), then you can do it all over again next drs.

In the games I saw, you didnt really have much cc rolling at all, I know that playing with a resto druid isnt optimal at all, and he pretty much has to stay in a safe position at all times unless you guys got very good coordination (like stun->gouge the dps when he's going in for a cyclone)

You should also abuse the dismiss pet a lot more, every time you got downtime (for example when they are popping a defensive cooldown and you know you wont score a kill, just dismiss the pet!) The sacrifice is just amazing, and it allows your team to push up to get the cc needed for your comp to work as intended.

I also noticed that your druid didnt really communicate at all, it seemed like you were the only vocal person in your team, tell your rogue to call out when he cannot reach a target and swap to whatever your rogue can reach (if he cannot reach a target at all because he got shadowstep on cooldown, this is the perfect time to resummon a new monkey!), just a hunter dpsing a target doesnt force anything unless you got insane gear and rng.
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#13 Bodoma

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:16 AM

I'm really still learning overview. This is the first xpac where I became actually serious about PvP, and I still don't know the mentality and cooldown rotations of other classes and comps. I think I'm WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better off than I was in season 9, though.

Hyuru man your advice is seriously great, thanks a lot.

View PostYsmerion, on 04 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

"Queue" is actually the longest word in English language that can be said with only word letter, "q".

#14 WildeHilde

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:14 PM

We are now waiting for the next video with improved play :)

/tap

Also consider sending a clip to Hotted, he reviews clips on a weekly basis on his YouTube channel.

#15 Bodoma

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

Oh nice! Cheers man I will do that. :D

I'm going to start applying all of this advice today. Let's see how it goes. Should be awesome tbh. I PM'ed Braindeadly on YouTube to see if he would give me some pointers but he's in Belgium atm I guess? So I don't know if he has the time to do that or whatever. I'll see if I can ninja Feor and Dice and maybe Tosan to critique it as well.

View PostYsmerion, on 04 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

"Queue" is actually the longest word in English language that can be said with only word letter, "q".

#16 YndigoDS

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:46 PM

k nvm, saw that my boy Hyuru cover'd pretty much everything.
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#17

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:29 PM

Aside from all the other stuff people said, you might want to improve your communication as well. Sometimes you're not saying anything for half a minute, so to speak, and at other times you're repeating everything you do, thrice.

Calling out ''going to scatter-trap'' once will be enough, as well as either calling out 'trap landed' or 'trap failed'. You can repeat things, of course, but most of the time it's not really adding anything. I myself tend to get annoyed by people repeating something over and over.
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#18 YndigoDS

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 05:28 PM

rep hunter hyuru tbh.


Spoiler

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#19 Jokerplex

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:27 PM

Looks like youve got alot of responses, i wont bother to read them just point out a few tiny things..

On blades edge playing vs a rogue team id advise your healer stand behind the pillar and you flare behind. This will make it harder for them to get on him. Alsao woulda of been out of LoS for grips/charges etc
Try to save pet sac for better times, when you see them setting up a burst (sdance, pilar of frost or bombs).

As your playing with a rdruid id advise you try your best to save master's call for him especially vs cleave teams.

Uhm, dont overlap defensive abilities to get away (Such as master's call into disengage, try to get away with using one then if they use a gap closer such as ShS death grip charge etc you can use the other)

just from watching a bit it looked like you were waddling around like a headless chicken at times not really knowing whats going on, but thats just awareness and will come with time.

And yeah just communication with your team, constantly ask your healer if you need to deterence, if he has you etc, saw you waste acouple of them.

Edited by Jokerplex, 25 May 2012 - 07:27 PM.


#20 Bodoma

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 09:36 AM

Dice > porn

:P

thanks a lot Dicey <3

View PostYsmerion, on 04 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

"Queue" is actually the longest word in English language that can be said with only word letter, "q".





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