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diziet trying to explain the complexities of sponsorship and intellectual theft

how fast will this get banned

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#1 Donald

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:50 AM

considering the time it took the thread with the false accusations against mugems to get moderated, i expect this to stay up for atleast a day.

btw, you cant censor/lock/remove this. i, and ppl i know, have already SSed it and its timestamp and all of this post, and can upload its existence in its entirety as a couple jpegs whenever we want. unless you want to ban all of us from the site, but that would be pretty silly for unfounded accusations....

[5/8/2012 11:36:40 PM] Diziet: don do you think
[5/8/2012 11:36:49 PM] Diziet: tournament organizers make money by runing tournaments?
[5/8/2012 11:37:15 PM] Diziet: you're being really accusational without really understanding the complexities involved in running a tournament
[5/8/2012 11:38:47 PM] Don: i would understand where youre coming from if you were in the position to tell me if i was right about curse muscling nao out of their own idea
[5/8/2012 11:38:51 PM] Don: am i right?
[5/8/2012 11:39:02 PM] Diziet: you're not
[5/8/2012 11:39:19 PM | Edited 11:40:25 PM] Don: then why did curse stop sponsoring
[5/8/2012 11:39:28 PM] Diziet: if curse was to "muscle out nao"
[5/8/2012 11:39:36 PM] Diziet: aj would delete the nao subforum, blah blah
[5/8/2012 11:40:11 PM | Edited 11:40:32 PM] Don: maybe, can you answer this tho?
[5/8/2012 11:40:26 PM] Diziet: let me give you an anology
[5/8/2012 11:41:49 PM] Diziet: in 2005-2006 cervelo, a bicycle manufacturing company, was sponsoring team CSC
[5/8/2012 11:42:05 PM] Diziet: then in 2007 csc switched to specialized, another bicycle manufacturing company
[5/8/2012 11:42:15 PM] Diziet: cervelo sponsored their own team, cervelo test-team
[5/8/2012 11:42:20 PM] Diziet: till 2010
[5/8/2012 11:42:31 PM] Diziet: then in 2010 cervelo went back to sponsoring another team, garmin-slipstream
[5/8/2012 11:42:46 PM] Diziet: did specialized steal something from cervelo/
[5/8/2012 11:42:54 PM] Diziet: did cervelo screw up team csc?
[5/8/2012 11:43:01 PM] Diziet: no, this is just how complicated relations work
[5/8/2012 11:43:14 PM] Diziet: in the real world, sponsors get switched all the time, etc etc
[5/8/2012 11:44:04 PM] Don: can you answer my question a different way? why did curse drop out from sponsoring nao? i read that its cuz they thought mugems was associated with arenarating?
[5/8/2012 11:44:22 PM] Diziet: [Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:43 PM] Diziet:

<<< this is just how complicated relations work
[5/8/2012 11:44:25 PM] Diziet: [Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:43 PM] Diziet:

<<< in the real world, sponsors get switched all the time
[5/8/2012 11:44:45 PM | Edited 11:44:49 PM] Don: .......
[5/8/2012 11:44:55 PM] Don: why so shady its a pretty simple question
[5/8/2012 11:45:00 PM] Diziet: you being a little kid and accusing people
[5/8/2012 11:45:15 PM] Diziet: curse sponsored NAO for NAO2
[5/8/2012 11:45:19 PM] Don: i can point out what the situation looks like, doesnt mean im right
[5/8/2012 11:45:21 PM] Diziet: curse did not sponsor NAO for NAO3
[5/8/2012 11:45:29 PM] Diziet: what else is there?
[5/8/2012 11:45:36 PM] Don: and they removed mugems status as nao organizer on aj
[5/8/2012 11:46:03 PM] Diziet: as far as I know, curse did no such thing
[5/8/2012 11:46:12 PM] Don: i know for a fact they did, how do you not?
[5/8/2012 11:46:19 PM] Diziet: http://www.arenajunk...signs-from-nao/
[5/8/2012 11:49:04 PM] Don: so, curse stopped for reasons other than this arenaratings shitstorm?
[5/8/2012 11:49:14 PM] Don: and then decided to copy the idea?
[5/8/2012 11:49:46 PM] Diziet: well first of all, online tournaments have been happening in many different games
[5/8/2012 11:49:50 PM] Diziet: for over a decade
[5/8/2012 11:49:57 PM] Diziet: NAO did not invent online tournaments
[5/8/2012 11:50:07 PM] Diziet: NAO did not even do the first online WoW tournament
[5/8/2012 11:50:20 PM] Don: they got 10k viewers and did it right
[5/8/2012 11:50:25 PM] Diziet: yet I do not see you accusing NAO of stealing the idea from others
[5/8/2012 11:51:58 PM] Don: they brought it to wow, if curse wasnt stealing this idea and setup, they would have done it eyars ago
[5/8/2012 11:52:02 PM] Don: they obviously didnt think of it
[5/8/2012 11:52:10 PM] Don: and when they saw how successful it would be
[5/8/2012 11:52:14 PM] Don: they took it over
[5/8/2012 11:52:21 PM] Diziet: obviously
[5/8/2012 11:52:51 PM] Diziet: there's just no reasoning with you right now
[5/8/2012 11:53:06 PM] Diziet: for some reason the NAO tournament organizers aren't making these accusations
[5/8/2012 11:53:19 PM] Diziet: and they're perfectly happy to see many tournaments, as many as possible
[5/8/2012 11:54:20 PM] Don: look they dropped out to make their own because they can and because they will make more money lol its clear as day
[5/8/2012 11:54:33 PM] Diziet: in 2006-2008
[5/8/2012 11:54:37 PM] Diziet: GOM TV sponsored MSL
[5/8/2012 11:54:42 PM] Diziet: a broodwar tournament
[5/8/2012 11:54:50 PM] Diziet: in 2008 they later had their own GSL
[5/8/2012 11:55:08 PM] Diziet: and now they run GSL, a popular sc2 tournament
[5/8/2012 11:55:12 PM] Diziet: why aren't you blaming them
[5/8/2012 11:57:08 PM] Don: listen, what is there to blame, you guys got away with it, its blatant intellectual theft but no one can do anything about it
[5/8/2012 11:57:17 PM] Diziet: intellectual theft
[5/8/2012 11:57:24 PM] Diziet: now you're being obtuse
[5/8/2012 11:57:32 PM] Don: i forget what that means
[5/8/2012 11:57:46 PM] Diziet: opposite from sharp or acute
[5/8/2012 11:58:33 PM] Diziet: [Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:57 PM] Don:

<<< intellectual theft
[5/8/2012 11:58:42 PM] Don: are you saying it wasnt intellectual theft, you are not taking NAO's idea to start an online tournament in wow, an esport that has lying dormant since mlg dropped them
[5/8/2012 11:58:42 PM] Diziet: please argue against NAO on the behalf of Prestige-gaming.ru
[5/8/2012 11:58:54 PM] Diziet: [Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:58 PM] Diziet:

<<< please argue against NAO on the behalf of Prestige-gaming.ru
[5/8/2012 11:59:00 PM] Don: prestige wasnt starting a tourny in the US
[5/8/2012 11:59:01 PM] Don: lol
[5/8/2012 11:59:03 PM] Diziet: so?
[5/8/2012 11:59:07 PM] Don: ....
[5/8/2012 11:59:16 PM] Diziet: [Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:57 PM] Diziet:

<<<  you're being obtuse
[5/8/2012 11:59:37 PM] Diziet: http://en.wikipedia....ectual_property
[5/8/2012 11:59:52 PM] Diziet: it would be intellectual theft perhaps if curse, without NAO's permission, used the NAO brand name
[12:00:14 AM] Don: ok you got me on the linguistics, it was their idea... curse didnt think of it
[12:01:00 AM] Diziet: I suppose I could show you chat logs and moderator forum posts cira 2010
[12:01:07 AM] Diziet: that talked about running online tournaments hosted by AJ
[12:01:15 AM] Diziet: but then you'd just start arguing about something else
[12:01:21 AM] Don: well no
[12:01:22 AM] Diziet: please, fight on behalf of Prestige-gaming.ru
[12:01:25 AM] Diziet: against NAO
[12:01:26 AM] Don: id like to think im open to reason
[12:01:31 AM] Don: link me any evidence you see fit
[12:01:55 AM] Diziet: I don't have to link you anything because your accusations are groundless
[12:02:04 AM] Diziet: it's like having to prove that god does not exist
[12:02:15 AM] Diziet: it is up to you first to prove that your accusations are valid
[12:02:19 AM] Diziet: and then for me to disprove them
[12:03:43 AM] Don: theyve just been cooking up the idea for 2 years, eh? just decided to sponsor nao, see that 10k+ viewers would be revenue, had "complicated reasons to drop sponsorship", and started their own...
[12:03:44 AM] Don: dude lol
[12:03:46 AM] Don: come on
[12:04:31 AM] Diziet: revenue?
[12:04:40 AM] Diziet: if you think curse made a penny off NAO
[12:04:43 AM] Don: and they cook up their new tourny behind close doors, no public sign up, just the curse staff picking teams, while the nao was being planned
[12:04:44 AM] Diziet: you're mistaken
[12:05:01 AM] Diziet: if you think curse is going to make money off this tournament
[12:05:03 AM] Diziet: you're mistaken
[12:05:08 AM] Don: are you arguing that consistant 10k+ viewers would not = revenue eventually?
[12:05:12 AM] Diziet: if you think small tournaments make money, you're mistaken
[12:05:17 AM] Diziet: please, ask NAO people
[12:05:25 AM] Diziet: about who got the advertising revenue :)
[12:05:29 AM] Diziet: in NAO2
[12:05:42 AM] Don: theyre just beginning, im not arguing that they were reaping the benefits yet
[12:06:14 AM] Diziet: don, you're being annoyingly obtuse
[12:06:20 AM] Diziet: throughout this whole conversation
[12:06:34 AM] Diziet: do you not realize there is a reason why NAO staff aren't complaining?
[12:06:47 AM] Don: no i havent talked to them
[12:07:41 AM] Diziet: perhaps you should straighten out your facts first
[12:07:47 AM] Diziet: before throwing wild and crazy accusations
[12:08:24 AM] Don: listen, you could straighten them out for me, but you think it would be like "proving god doesnt exist"
[12:09:15 AM] Don: hey, why do you think the nao staff repped my post?
[12:11:05 AM] Diziet: I don't know, they'd probably meant to hit the report button?
[12:11:49 AM] Don: sidestepping with humor, pretty convincing there
[12:17:14 AM] Don: so youre sticking with the counter arguement that "your accusations are groundless, so im not going to respond to any of them with evidence" thing? and hey i dont blame you, you really dont have to, curse is the evil giant corporation in comparison to the nao, you have already outmuscled them, so... yeah
[12:24:14 AM] Don: you there?
[12:24:39 AM] Diziet: ya
[12:24:48 AM] Don: [12:17 AM] Don:

<<< so youre sticking with the counter arguement that "your accusations are groundless, so im not going to respond to any of them with evidence" thing? and hey i dont blame you, you really dont have to, curse is the evil giant corporation in comparison to the nao, you have already outmuscled them, so... yeah
[12:24:53 AM] Don: is that right?
[12:25:36 AM] Don: what have you been doing, talking with your evil superiors about how to answer these pms?
[12:26:24 AM] Diziet: yeah I'm on the phone with a team of lawyers!
[12:27:18 AM] Don: again, you come PMing me trying to silence my accusations or something, having a serious conversation, and then you just dodge and sidestep and try to use linguistics and semantics
[12:27:37 AM] Diziet: I'm not trying to silence you
[12:27:39 AM] Don: while admitting to submitting no evidence because "we dont need to"
[12:27:44 AM] Diziet: I'm telling you that you're being obtuse
[12:28:03 AM] Diziet: please, go blame pepsi cola for stealing coca cola's idea
[12:28:04 AM] Diziet: of a soft drink
[12:28:11 AM] Diziet: attack steelseries for competing with razor
[12:28:14 AM] Don: jesus christ you know youre doing exactly what i just said right
[12:28:44 AM] Don: you havent answered anything and you havent presented any evidence

why did curse drop out?
[12:29:08 AM] Diziet: shit do I look like the CEO of curse to you?
[12:29:46 AM] Don: are you sayign you have no idea why they dropped out
[12:39:03 AM] Don: diziet whered you go
[12:39:06 AM] Don: want answers here

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#2 Slippy80

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:57 AM

first...technically

Interesting read...Killuminati. RIP Tupac

Real talk, only need a couple questions answered:
1: How much money did NAO make from stream revenue from last tournament? (This can be used as a reference point as to whether or not curse can actually make money from their own tourney)
2: How did curse decide which teams to pick...Kpul...hello?
3: Kpul?

Edited by Slippy80, 09 May 2012 - 06:02 AM.


#3 Donald

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:58 AM

and yes, i do think curse is an evil and corrupt entity, kind of like the shawshank redemption villian

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#4 Yes

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:16 AM

Don, you'd post a *private* message conversation I had with you in *private* for the whole forum? I'd considered you my friend when I talked to you in *private*, but you clearly do not respect the sanctity of *private* messages.

However, since so much misconception exists, let me clarify with the best factual information I've got.

Curse has been supporting e-sports and gaming communities for a very long time. Curse has sponsored a League of Legends team since August 25th, 2011. Curse has already sponsored a League of Legends tournament and is sponsoring a second one, called the Reign of Gaming Invitational this time around May. Transitioning to run the first Arena Junkies Invitationalwas a natural progression.

Why, to draw a parallel to another Blizzards E-sport, Curse is on a similar road to what GreTech, otherwise known as GomTV, has done in 2006 by sponsoring an MSL in Brood War and later in 2008 sponsoring it's first GSL Classic . Why, if you'd like to put the 'blame' on me in this thing, I'd be glad to draw the parallel and put my mug next to these 'evil' figures from GomTV :)


Posted Image Posted Image



#5 exhausting

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:17 AM

Why aren't the NAO organizers complaining you ask, Diziet? Because out of professional courtesy we don't publicly bash former sponsors. I feel like even merely explaining the facts of what happened would constitute as bashing because it was so disrespectful to those from NAO. Business practices that would be viewed as unprofessional in the public eye shouldn't be done at all. I'll follow this philosophy by not explaining to the public what happened to my co-workers and good friends because it would only burn bridges.

P.S. your analogy to Coke v.s. Pepsi is inherently flawed and you know why.

#6 Tosan

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:11 AM

First I'd like to say that I fully appreciate and respect the NAO organizers for all the work they put forth to run the tournament; it is a lot of work, I'm positive, and I certainly wouldn't put the time/effort that they do to run such a thing.

That said, I can't really see how Curse doing an online tournament is "intellectual theft".  The NAO crew got the spectator mod and online tournament spark from a Russian online tournament that was held first, right?  I could be wrong, I know some Russian bad asses made the spectator mod and as far as I recall they used it to hold an online tournament.  But we all know the tournament idea is not a new one and the NAO staff certainly didn't invent it.  They just happened to be the first group (that I'm aware of) to dedicate the time/effort/workload to run them consistently.

NAO holding a tournament is awesome/fun/great/fantastic/etc, but it's not like they invented something new and the idea was stolen.  Dropping the sponsorship of NAO to hold their own because it may be more profitable is not unreasonable.  It may be "selfish" but I mean that's what capitalism is, isn't it?

Skill-Capped was made, then ArenaPwnage/Nerdstompers did something similar.  How many Arena Carry/Pilot sites sprung up not too long after the first one?  No one likes competition but there's nothing wrong with it, everyone is trying to make a living in the world and selfishness is pretty much synonymous with capitalism.

Of course, those types of businesses I listed above negatively hurt eachother because most people won't use more than 1 of them, so they have to choose,  which loses business for the others.   HOWEVER, when it comes to Tournaments, unless the tournaments are being streamed at the same time, it's a win for everyone, as you don't "steal" viewers from eachother at all and it's nothing but a positive thing for the community.

Honestly the only thing I would consider wrong or shady about dropping their NAO sponsorship is if they actually did make a "scapegoat" reason for doing it.  I personally think being honest about it would be better, just say "Hey <NAO staff>, we've decided we want to sponsor our own tournaments and discontinue sponsoring yours.  We still support/respect your tournament and wish you well, this is just something we want to do for ourselves" - or something along those lines.  But of course the "scapegoat" accusation cannot be proven or disproven and in the end it doesn't really matter too much, other than it being a rude/disrespectful to sorta throw Mugems under the bus, if it is true.

I don't know why everyone can't just enjoy the fact that various members of the wow/gaming community are taking it into their own hands to create tournaments where other previous organizations (i.e. MLG) discontinued them.

The more tournaments the better, right?  I don't think they hurt eachother, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited by Tosan, 09 May 2012 - 07:14 AM.


#7 Yes

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:14 AM

Just to clarify another thing: No player involved in the tournament will in any way be involved in settling match disputes, or have a say in official rulings on matches.

#8 Hyuru

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:14 AM

Quote

[5/8/2012 11:58:42 PM] Diziet: please argue against NAO on the behalf of Prestige-gaming.ru
[5/8/2012 11:59:00 PM] Don: prestige wasnt starting a tourny in the US

What has that got to do with anything :s?

#9 Donald

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:02 AM

the point is, it would appear to me that this is the situation (and im open to evidence if its presented):

mlg drops wow. the scene is dying. prestige has an idea and implements it in russia or whatever. nao coordinates with them and they get the ball rolling here (they are the only god damn ppl doing this, where is curse/aj? where have they been since mlg dropped wow?). nao puts in countless hours and their own money (mostly mugems) to actually make it a success. sponsors get interested, including curse. their hard work is going to pay off, even if they havent made alot of money yet, this is a great start.

curse sees the potential (as in the nao showed us how to do this, this shit gets views, this is a hit, we can do this ourselves), gets wind of a way to drop sponsorship (scapegoating mugems cuz of arenarating accusations, and even if thats not the reason, why the hell isnt it public why they dropped sponsorship?), drops them like a bad habit, and is now set to reap the rewards of the nao's groundwork. behind the scenes, they pre-invite certain teams, and announce it mid nao3. no part of any of this is made public, why?

now sure, its not necessarily the end of the line for the nao. they could coexist, but why did curse abandon their partnership? are they not competitors, now? why not just stay a sponsor and move along with the nao and combine?

because they can make more money for themselves, legally.

curse inv would not exist without nao inv, it was their idea and hard work that became the biggest hope the US pvp community has had since mlg, they abandoned nao, and now they are set to reap the rewards and leave nao in the dust.

i really want both to succeed. competition could be good, or something. that doesnt mean that curse hasnt been shady as hell, nor does it mean that they should have just abandoned their partnership to become their newly disoriented ex-partner's competition out of thin air.

the point is that curse appears to be a bunch of assholes. the point has nothing to do with "intellectual theft," - that is terminology wrongfully used by me.

View PostHyuru, on 09 May 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

What has that got to do with anything :s?
diziet is saying that if im to be consistent, i should argue that the nao is ripping off prestige, when in fact the situations are completely different. prestige is a completely different market (russia), the nao is the US. curse inv is also the US. gg.

Edited by Donald, 09 May 2012 - 08:08 AM.

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#10 bclol

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:13 AM

A guy who makes a nice chair doesn’t owe money to everyone who has ever built a chair

Edited by bclol, 09 May 2012 - 08:14 AM.


#11 Tosan

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:13 AM

View PostDonald, on 09 May 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

diziet is saying that if im to be consistent, i should argue that the nao is ripping off prestige, when in fact the situations are completely different. prestige is a completely different market (russia), the nao is the US. curse inv is also the US. gg.

Honestly you're just splitting hairs at this point.  This type of argument reminds me of when people are like "Im the HIGHEST RATED dwarf male arcane mage that plays with a night elf male warrior in the US!"

If you change the criteria enough, you can make anything sound more significant. First is first,  Russia?  US?  I don't see how the distinction matters when it comes to online video game tournaments.

Edited by Tosan, 09 May 2012 - 08:13 AM.


#12 mukuld50

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:23 AM

Hi there - no comments on anything else in this thread, except for one thing.  NAO did not rip off anything from Prestige - rather we worked together quite extensively to extend their efforts into the North American arena scene.  Also, we are still working with them on combining efforts / collaborating / streamlining, whatever you would like to call it.  We did not "rip off" or anything from Prestige, and have given them due credit whenever possible.

#13 Baulterexlol

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:25 AM

You don't work with a company, see all of their cards, dump them, and then start your own thing with their cards. Doesn't matter if it's IP theft or not. . . It's still wrong. No need to argue with me about if I'm right or wrong, because that's my MORAL stance.

#14 Mogias

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:28 AM

I really don't get what all the fuss is about, why all this drama? Its meaningless.
Does it matter if there is 10 different tournaments, all based on the same idea? More tournaments benefits the community, stop whining.

Edited by Mogias, 09 May 2012 - 08:31 AM.


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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

Don, it's obvious  now why AJ hasn't announced new NAO on main page - they got own tournament.

More important is that for a sake of proving thing u posted personal conversation, which is more important than any silly tournament.

#16 Tosan

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:36 AM

View PostBaulterexlol, on 09 May 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

You don't work with a company, see all of their cards, dump them, and then start your own thing with their cards. Doesn't matter if it's IP theft or not. . . It's still wrong. No need to argue with me about if I'm right or wrong, because that's my MORAL stance.

It's an online tournament.....it's not like they're a technology company working on secret projects and Curse came and stole their blueprints to a new Iron Man suit .........

What "cards" are there to see?

I mean I'm not sure why it has to be said more than once, or even once for that matter, but NAO did not invent tournaments.....they're not using "NAO's cards".

I mean let's get real here,  all these tournament organizers are really just ripping off the Romans who built the Collisium and started real gladiator tournaments for bad ass mofos.

Edited by Tosan, 09 May 2012 - 08:48 AM.


#17 Donald

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:40 AM

View PostPawik, on 09 May 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Don, it's obvious  now why AJ hasn't announced new NAO on main page - they got own tournament.

More important is that for a sake of proving thing u posted personal conversation, which is more important than any silly tournament.
what the fuck, he responded to a public post i made with information that was not private. if hes trying to argue or reason against my public post, he should have replied in the thread (in public).

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#18 Duckers

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:57 AM

View PostTosan, on 09 May 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

What "cards" are there to see?
The rare hologram shiny "Make a WoW tournament in the US" card.

#19 Naatzors

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:05 AM

How is this even an argument lol. It's really obvious curse isn't doing anything wrong, welcome to the real world where good ideas get used by multiple people. Did you expect a monopoly on online WoW tournies for NAO?

I can't even comprehend why you think curse is in it for the money btw, 10k vieuwers is nothing, something like own3d would maybe pay out something like 200dollars/hour (being really generous with this number). There's no way it's gonna cover the costs. All they want is their brandname to be more known, wich, thanks to you, is working out quite well already.

Diziet is 100% right here, and anyone saying otherwise probably has no idea about how the world works.
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#20 hypermode_4274975

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:06 AM

Alright, after having read this full thread & something off the mugems thread, while knowing abit about intellectual property I have this to say:

1. It is a perfectly normal habit for companys to look for bussiness avenues that can make them money, if they see a competitor is doing well with a certain non-trademarked service, they will immitate it and try to improve it, that is the most basic foundation of capitalism
2. I have no idea what was in the nao-curse sponsorship agreement, so I (and afaik nobody but the people directly involved) can tell if any promises/contracts were broken. If the contract was based on a tournament to tournament basis (which seems to me the most logical contract), it was curses fair right to not extend the contract, they didn't have any obligations (maybe besides moral ones) to continue the contract. If the contract was a yearly contract & they decided to disband it because muggems alledgedly was involved in arena carries (like, to be fair, most of the people on this site) it was a low blow, but still legal as far as I can see (they don't want to be associated with people willfully breaking contracts with blizzard).
The idea behind a sponsorship usually is trading money for namerecognisciion. In this case, its slightly more complex because curse provided, besides money, also infrastructure, platforms to announce the tournaments (AJ).

3. NAO has no intellectual property WHATSOEVER over holding tournaments, they have taken over the framework used by the russians (prestige-gaming) and they were licenced to do so (judging from comments on the stream & muggems words earlier in this thread).

4. The only party with any intellectual property claims is prestige gaming. They developped the tournament UI (which is a copywritable idea, especially since it was developped by them and non-public) so if the AJ tournament (and thus curse) were to use that user interface, they would be liable for copyright claims (unless prestige-gaming licenses them, just as they have licensed NAO).

5. If you look at this from the ''wow as e-sport'' pov, this tournament is nothing but good, it is bringing wow as an e-sport back to a proffesional (meaning non-player hosted, no matter how good those players did) level. Which means more resources will be spend on it and curse has more places to advertise, which in turn means bigger viewercounts, more money involved & bigger prices for the players.

6. You claim curse ''randomly invited a bunch of teams'' which is exactly what NAO did in the start, it was a tournament-host made decision and I agree with this one. I know all teams on that list, except for the last one listed, because they performed in a NAO tournament.

7. For NAO, it is not sure if this tournament is going to be bad, it might even be good because right now, NAO is a pretty niche organisation with a pretty limited & niche playerbase. Curse has the potential (trough mmo-champion) to interest a whole bunch of new people in the tournament scene, which might then end up on NAO's stream aswell.

8. Your main motives for making this post seem to me mostly because you wern't invited to the AJ tournament, but thats just ad hominem from me

I think I have said everything I have to say here, please feel free to point out any factual errors made by me while writhing this




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