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#1 Donald

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:51 AM

I give this thread a 100% chance of being flamed because it's the AJ community, but:

Right now, the 12 or so viable specs all have a number of retardly overpowered moves they can do (50k ret hits with wings, 100k wogs, 60k mind blasts, feral clone, lock pressure, moonkin dmg, combust, prep bomb, bomb spirit link, etc). Locks, rshams and rogues have probly the most numerous amount of these OP abilities and they synergize well, so you get godcomp.

Now, I get flamed all the time for using my good abilities (wings + orbs + mind blast + trinkets, offheals, mass dispel) and playing defensive when I have to with my defensive abilities (when there is insane AOE pressure out vs an enemy dot cleave, when there is insane consistent burst pressure from hunter + melee comps). People get so righteous when they flame me for that, but somehow they don't realize that everything is relative.

Shadow abilities are relative to all of the viable specs' abilities. If you have a problem with shadow priests using their OP moves, you should have a problem with every viable class' OP moves, and you should play something completely nonviable so you're free of your own criticism (go holy priest or combat rogue or something) or run a comp where your moves don't synergize at all (fury warr/demo lock/holy priest). It's inconsistent to bitch about just shadow, unless your ego is so huge that you think only shadow is broken and that nothing else, specifically what you're playing, isn't. Bitching about these moves is even more pointless because you go into the game knowing they have those moves and what they can do, and you have the chance to strategize about how to stop it. Some teams are good at shutting down wings + orbs + mind blast + trinkets, just as some are good at purging a feral's instant clones, some aren't and lose for it when they could have countered the OP moves better, for example.

Now, I understand all of ^ so I try not to even think to bitch when I get gayed, I try to accept the video game and move on. But, I feel I have place to bitch about certain combinations of classes - basically just LSD2. Other comps might be gay, but at least they can switch up their strats, and if they do the same exact strat every game they might get stopped. LSD2 does the same, brainless strat every. single. game - cleave everything at once. There's not even any burst, it's just insane, OOMing damage. Their CC is even counterproductive because fears break instantly and clones stop their cleave onslaught. It either works or it doesn’t, and of course the comp is aided very strongly by gear like cunning, making it even more hateable to me. Am I offbase? Is it inconsistent to bitch about LSD2 given what I said about class balance, or is it a different story when its a composition of classes? Is LSD2 not as brainless/stratless as I think? (I put shadowplay, and moonkin/fire at only a little less gay than LSD2)

Inb4 "why do you care so much" - this took 5 mins to write and might be worth the discussion. I'm going to starve trolling by ignoring it, so don't bother with retarded posts or trolling. Is it possible to have an AJ thread that is flame free? If anyone wants to discuss any points/questions I posted here, feel free.

edit: maybe I'll just + rep posts I find retarded/trolling, to let people know they weren't going unheard.

Edited by Donald, 10 April 2012 - 04:13 AM.

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#2 Chromix

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:01 AM

Ok?

#3 Claynz

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:17 AM

Tbh i dont get why you type all that its like a thread of frustration were you just wanna get it out there. I just go on my balcony and shout out stuff when i get mad but the thing is i dont get mad anymore i just "deal with it" i given up stuff. Nowdays i only log on to do arena when i feel for it.

I can log on at any time of the day or night 24/7 go out to durotar dueling zone and not go 5 min without someone complaining about the game because they lost.


About AJ this forum is lost long time ago its only trolls/whiners here nowdays ofc there is some few constructive post/threads here and there but the "old aj" is gone good time ago.

View PostDonald, on 10 April 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

Is it possible to have an AJ thread that is flame free?

Spoiler


#4 Donald

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:19 AM

View PostTrolltoe, on 10 April 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Tbh i dont get why you type all that its like a thread of frustration were you just wanna get it out there. I just go on my balcony and shout out stuff when i get mad but the thing is i dont get mad anymore i just "deal with it" i given up stuff. Nowdays i only log on to do arena when i feel for it.

I can log on at any time of the day or night 24/7 go out to durotar dueling zone and not go 5 min without someone complaining about the game because they lost.


About AJ this forum is lost long time ago its only trolls/whiners here nowdays ofc there is some few constructive post/threads here and there but the "old aj" is gone good time ago.



Spoiler
no reason we cant bring it back. just fyi, nothing about this video game could ever make me mad. its just a hobby.

Edited by Donald, 10 April 2012 - 03:21 AM.

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#5 Koshimo

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:23 AM

:mage: :rogue: :warlock: :shaman:

Those classes ruin arena, spriests are decently balanced outside of their random burst, but that doesn't even come close to how retarded lock/shaman/rogue/mages are tbqh.
Im probably a little biased about mages being op because im a paladin, but im pretty sure anyone with a brain would agree  :rogue: :shaman: :warlock: pretty much ruin the game.

#6 Claynz

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:40 AM

Here is another thing most of the vanila wow players are gone moved on with theyr life or changed game. While a new generation of young people is starting with this game as you can notice,  think about it lets say you were 16 when vanila wow came out the kids today were then 9 years old playing on theyr gamecube.

I loved PvP back in the days when people did not flame eachother as much and it was actually cool to have a gladiator title back in tbc and you would respect that player.  Now days everyone runs around with a rank 1 title and i guess 30% of them is boosted from some website and 95% of people that do PvP hates/flames someone for the smallest reason.

This game was a hobby for me only reason why i play it is because of the friends and people i have been lucky to meet,

Every year since 2007 i pray on Blizzcon they gona announce the new MMO game so i can move on with my hobby!

People say blizzard sucks at making games because its unbalanced what most people dont know is that WoW was not made for PvP combat as that guy who designed wow(who now works on the new mmo) said if they knew PvP would play a big part of the game they would made it balanced redesigned stuff for pvp.
Blizzard is still my nr 1# MMORPG company so i hope they gona announce TITAN this time... i tried Rift, GW1, AoC, and Aion and i still dont feel like a part of the game it just dont suck my soul like WoW did.


Enough about me my ass is rotting into the computerchair textile thats how bored i am atm and im too tired to even bother grammar correction typing this :)

#7 Donald

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:40 AM

View PostKoshimo, on 10 April 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

:mage: :rogue: :warlock: :shaman:

Those classes ruin arena, spriests are decently balanced outside of their random burst, but that doesn't even come close to how retarded lock/shaman/rogue/mages are tbqh.
Im probably a little biased about mages being op because im a paladin, but im pretty sure anyone with a brain would agree  :rogue: :shaman: :warlock: pretty much ruin the game.
as a prerequisite to this thread, i would want ppl do understand that the game has obvious imbalances, and that the game is still fun to play in spite of those. i dont want the thread to be complaining about certain classes/abilities, i think i want the discussion to go in the way of 'what criticism is valid/consistent, and what isn't?'

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#8 inhume

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:08 AM

boomkins are basically a dot version of a ret paladin in terms of high damage but no survivability. their self healing requires them to drop their survivability even lower by being out of moonkin form and they are susceptible to melee zerg. sure it might look like a brainless comp to you as a spriest but i'm sure they say the same thing when a team right clicks the boomkin to victory.

#9 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:11 AM

View Postinhume, on 10 April 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

boomkins are basically a dot version of a ret paladin in terms of high damage but no survivability. their self healing requires them to drop their survivability even lower by being out of moonkin form and they are susceptible to melee zerg. sure it might look like a brainless comp to you as a spriest but i'm sure they say the same thing when a team right clicks the boomkin to victory.

Dude please stop using any type of reasonable logic, the OP clearly can't relate.

He complains about people bitching that he is using his overpowered abilities, then in the same post he whines about Moonkins (lol!) and hates on them for playing the comp that actually allows them to be viable.

TLDR,  :mage: :shaman: :rogue: :priest: :warlock:      :hunter: :druid: :paladin:   are OP

Edited by Ctuhlu, 10 April 2012 - 04:13 AM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#10 Donald

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:12 AM

View Postinhume, on 10 April 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

boomkins are basically a dot version of a ret paladin in terms of high damage but no survivability. their self healing requires them to drop their survivability even lower by being out of moonkin form and they are susceptible to melee zerg. sure it might look like a brainless comp to you as a spriest but i'm sure they say the same thing when a team right clicks the boomkin to victory.
true, i meant to incorporate that; LSD2 is probly one of those comps that hardcounters things and is hardcountered by others. their abilities/strats are so straightforward, that they can't adjust to things that counter them, i'd reason. so, i guess they win and lose to very basic strats.

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#11 Esiwdeer

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:19 AM

It's a cascading fallacy. Imbalance has existed since this game's creation. At level 60 you could be sheeped for a minute and Warlocks were awful, in TBC Warlocks could bot Gladiator - the list goes on and gets more absurd. Kintt said it best I think, when asked why so many people in the professional gaming industry describe World of Warcraft as a skill-less game:

Quote

I feel their pain at times, as there are situations in WoW where player skill just cannot overcome certain situations. Part of being succesful at WoW though, is planning so that you aren't put in these situations. It's not a game that requires a crazy amount of aim or micro, but there are still players that still do the small things much better then others, and they are clearly better because of it.

He has another quote too that describes how new content takes a guy from being a champion to not relevant, but you get the idea. If you really think about it, though, nobody that has been good from the beginning has been playing for the entire time. Everyone quits, loses interest in the game, whatever. And that's coming from, arguably, the most successful WoW tournament player of all time.

--

Shadow Priest gets to go a little under the radar right now(like Mages), but it's clearly entirely too strong and has been for some time. Shadowplay honestly probably almost went live with Drain Mana, Defensive Dispel from both DPS, Improved Mana Burn and whatever else - it's meaningless, really.

The only testament to player skill is continual relevance, which gets quite boring and tedious and requires huge amounts of adaptation no matter how skilled you are or are not. Every season you have to re-adapt and if you're even a little bit well-known you're going to have to deal with all the random drama from every retard that is all-of-the-sudden high rated like now their awful personality is validated because of their ratings - even though the only reason they had shit ratings to begin with because they were too much of a mongoloid to play with the same people and learn from their mistakes as a team.

I've come to the conclusion several times now that it's not even fun after awhile. You can become the best, become well-known, you lose interest in 20 minute queues, you quit, you come back and it all starts over.

You're talking about a game where the people consistently in the top 10 anywhere call each other shit, bad, awful, terrible, etc. The game has no sportsmanship because you don't need it to get high rated. All you need is the right spec and the right partners in the right season and you could beat anyone no matter how good; the only problem with that is people who are actually good at things, like World of Warcraft, don't tend to stick around when the game stops rewarding them.

--

But that was a bit of a tangent. You can't talk about balance because no one actually good has anything to say about it. It's all basically randoms with ill-gotten Gladiator titles running around spewing their insecurities anytime any one tries to point out a problem even though there's usually clear mathematical data to support any claim of imbalance.

If anything, you should be happy you're on the winning side of the balance equation for this expansion. I'm not sure dealing with every idiot that has any opinion about any class and has AJ access is going to work out in your favor, though.

#12 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostDonald, on 10 April 2012 - 04:12 AM, said:

true, i meant to incorporate that; LSD2 is probly one of those comps that hardcounters things and is hardcountered by others. their abilities/strats are so straightforward, that they can't adjust to things that counter them, i'd reason. so, i guess they win and lose to very basic strats.

There. This is absolutely true.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#13 GLopez

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:04 AM

View PostKoshimo, on 10 April 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

:mage: :rogue: :warlock: :shaman:

Those classes ruin arena, spriests are decently balanced outside of their random burst, but that doesn't even come close to how retarded lock/shaman/rogue/mages are tbqh.
Im probably a little biased about mages being op because im a paladin, but im pretty sure anyone with a brain would agree  :rogue: :shaman: :warlock: pretty much ruin the game.
Yeah.

The difference between this season and other seasons isn't just that the balance is greater than normal. It definitely is, but that shouldn't matter much by itself. The biggest problem is the imbalance is so cheesy that arenas aren't even fun anymore.

Almost everything Rogues, Shamans, and Warlocks do in an arena just comes off as extremely cheesy. Spirit Link, double Smoke Bomb, the enormous amount of interrupts, the only CC that is actually a risk to dispel, and the mix of great burst and great spread damage are just not fun to ever play against. It's not an interesting challenge; it's a test of patience.

I would also add that anytime a stealth class is overpowered, the game is considerably less fun. This is probably because when a stealth class is overpowered, it means it's overpowered by having more control than any other class in the game on top of having good to great damage. Nobody likes dealing with that.

Edited by GLopez, 10 April 2012 - 05:35 AM.


#14 Yves

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:24 AM

Man I'm with you, shadow priests ain't op. Them mages does more than those 60k mindblasts you say.

#15 Kelarm

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:26 AM

LSD2 with full pvp gear is barely even viable at the top of the ladder.  We can barely land a kill on a competent, oom shaman/rogue, shaman/spriest, or ret/dk team after rotating perfect CC on them for 5-10 minutes and setting up multiple drinks to get the game to that point.  Cleaves are usually an uphill battle and winning depends on them trinketing retarded shit and blowing their CDs before they even connect (which they all do).  Triple dps is an asshair away from impossible.  -20 every time you see a random 2150 ret/rogue/hunter.

Can't comment on the comp with pve gear though, it's probably stronger.  We can't even get our hands on a single raid finder cunning.

Edit:

Quote

their abilities/strats are so straightforward, that they can't adjust to things that counter them, i'd reason. so, i guess they win and lose to very basic strats.

This is total bullshit, LSD2 is one of the most strategic and adaptable comps I've ever played.  If pvp gear was actually the correct gear to wear in pvp, there wouldn't be a team or comp in the game that I would want to avoid.

Edited by Kelarm, 10 April 2012 - 05:38 AM.

Official Blizzard Quote:

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks.
Finally, I understand why pvp in this game is so bad.

#16 huike

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:34 AM

kelarm acting like lsd2 isnt viable  :rolleyes:
edited:"at the top of the ladder"  B)

Edited by huike, 10 April 2012 - 05:45 AM.


#17 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:35 AM

View PostGLopez, on 10 April 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

I would also add that anytime a stealth class is overpowered, the game is considerably less fun.

This is so true yet nobody seems to realize it. I'm hoping that since stealth in GW2 isn't permanent it will be much easier to balance. But ever since rogues became able to vanish/cloak and restealth at will, the whole mechanic has been kind of broken.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#18 GLopez

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:37 AM

Assassins actually look really overpowered in the beta for Guild Wars 2. They can stealth way too much, and their burst seems unreasonable. I'm sure ArenaNet will tweak a lot of it before launch, though.

Edited by GLopez, 10 April 2012 - 05:37 AM.


#19 Kelarm

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:46 AM

View PostGLopez, on 10 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Assassins actually look really overpowered in the beta for Guild Wars 2. They can stealth way too much, and their burst seems unreasonable. I'm sure ArenaNet will tweak a lot of it before launch, though.

I heard like half their abilities are vanishes and they have a combination bladestorm + spell reflect.

Posted Image

Official Blizzard Quote:

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks.
Finally, I understand why pvp in this game is so bad.

#20 Ctuhlu

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:47 AM

View PostGLopez, on 10 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Assassins actually look really overpowered in the beta for Guild Wars 2. They can stealth way too much, and their burst seems unreasonable. I'm sure ArenaNet will tweak a lot of it before launch, though.

There are no assassins, and plus you saw one video with a strong stealth opener and now you're back on the panda train  B) . And too much stealth? You know it only lasts a few seconds right? I'll take that over perma-stealth rogues and feral druids any day.

edit: agggh i keep forgetting to stop being positive about GW2, it's bad don't play it, WoW is better, stick to that

Edited by Ctuhlu, 10 April 2012 - 05:52 AM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck




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