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#1 Ctuhlu

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

Disclaimer: yes it is probably too early to say one way or the other whether Balance will be good in MoP, but given how dead this forum is a little discussion won't hurt.

Druids are shaping up to looking quite different in MoP than they are now, Moonkins in particular. There are a lot of major design changes that will have a huge impact on how the spec is played in PVP.

The Good:
  • With Insect Swarm no longer a DoT, the braindead tab dot playstyle will be gone.
  • Bear/Cat abilities might not take an extra GCD to use. It's unclear how the 'this ability activates Bear Form' descriptions are intended to work, but if hitting Dash while in Moonkin form automatically puts you in Cat AND activates Dash within 1 GCD, then that is a MAJOR design fix / buff.
  • There is a lot more control/survivability offered in the talent tree. Disorienting Roar will be huge if left untouched
  • Wild Charge will go a long way towards fixing age-old issues of Balance mobility, as well as considerably adding to the spec's skill cap given it's multiple uses.
  • Symbiosis allows you to fill a hole in your toolset by partnering with a class for a specific ability. I could envision situations where Moonkins are not very viable, but are able to get by in a certain comp that doubles up on a key spell through Symbiosis. Example: A Triple defensive dispel comp with Resto Shaman / Spriest / Moonkin (with Mass Dispel from Symbiosis)

The Bad:
  • Insect Swarm is no longer a DoT, therefore our damage will have to be casted. Hopefully this means a buff to our casted damage -- but it still remains unclear whether we will be able to reliably get casts off, especially with the increasing amount of CC/interrupts.
  • The PVP talent tree is probably even more cookie cutter than it is now, with http://us.battle.net...lator#Ua!202202 being the obvious spec for almost all situations. The 5th tier is really the only one that I could see being switched depending on comp, as perhaps Ursol's vortex would synergize well with some classes, such as Fire Mages and Ring of Frost (if Disorienting Roar DR's dragon's breath).

The Retarded:
  • Regrowth, gone. Lifebloom, gone. The two heals that we can currently use -- impotent as they are compared to other hybrids -- are perplexingly resto-only. This leaves us Rejuvenation and Healing Touch, which basically leaves us nothing. Moonkins won't really be hybrids in MoP, and that is really discouraging.
  • Skull Bash, gone. The one spell that raised our skill cap and differentiated good druids from bad ones is now Feral-only. This is flat-out retarded.

The main thing to keep in mind with these changes is that I can't see survivablity/control getting any better; if anything it will get nerfed. Traditionally, when things are available to both Resto Druids AND Balance druids, the fact that Resto Druids are healers usually gets the control nerfed (Instant Roots). Most of the time things become Resto-only and it severely hampers the Moonkin spec. I would have liked to see Wild Mushroom: Heal be available to all specs, but it really looks like they don't want us to be able to heal (retarded given the inclusion of Tier 6 healing talents).

When it's all on paper, I don't feel as though there is much to look forward to in terms of MoP Moonkin PVP. The spec is set to lose its hybrid properties with the removal of offhealing and Skull Bash. The move to a cast-oriented damage system is welcomed, but without the capability to heal I fear the spec will feel like a neutered arcane-mage playstyle, without the high numbers. Again, it's too early to know for sure, but to me the situation looks pretty grim. To be a truly viable spec outside of LSD2 gimmickery, we would probably need our current healing abilities PLUS all these talent changes. Trading one for the other doesn't seem like it will have a positive impact.

[/list]

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#2 Vamel

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

nourish?

#3 XtraT

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:41 PM

comparing lvl 85 meta game to the lvl 90 meta game

#4 Persidios

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:55 PM

Im really NOT looking forward to them removing LB and regrowth from balance. I cant imagine playing without them to be completely honest.

#5 Durial

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:46 PM

maybe you should wait till the release and the patches after, anyways, resto is looking fun/good.. but kinda sucks you lost both your heals(as of now)

#6 Ctuhlu

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostVamel, on 19 February 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

nourish?

?

Nourish is the mana-efficient low HPS heal. We lost our flash heal equivalent. Nobody nourishes in PVP.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#7 Filovirus

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:49 PM

View PostCtuhlu, on 19 February 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:


Skull Bash, gone. The one spell that raised our skill cap and differentiated good druids from bad ones is now Feral-only. This is flat-out retarded.


Yeah, the 4 second interrupt every 60 seconds is gone, guess we won't be able to tell the good druids from the bad ones anymore :(

#8 Swaggahqt

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:57 PM

View PostFilovirus, on 19 February 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Yeah, the 4 second interrupt every 60 seconds is gone, guess we won't be able to tell the good druids from the bad ones anymore :(

.]

Edited by Swaggahqt, 19 February 2012 - 10:11 PM.


#9 Ctuhlu

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostFilovirus, on 19 February 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Yeah, the 4 second interrupt every 60 seconds is gone, guess we won't be able to tell the good druids from the bad ones anymore :(

What's your point? The Balance druid skillcap is one of the lowest in the game, and properly utilizing Skull Bash was one of the few differentiating factors.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#10 The God of Damage

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:10 PM

everyone complain infinitely until they change insect swarm back...........
Cirranis

#11 Ctuhlu

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:27 PM

View PostThe God of Damage, on 19 February 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

everyone complain infinitely until they change insect swarm back...........

Personally I would prefer Insect Swarm not being a dot IF they make our casted damage legitimate, as well as giving us a way to get casts off. Right now, speaking on PVE terms, our casted damage is low specifically to balance out our DPS since so much of our damage is through dots. Assuming blizzard keeps balance competitive in PVE dps for MoP, the Insect Swarm change should mean bigger nukes, which would be a good thing. The tab dot playstyle is kind of an atrocity in my opinion. Something in between the Wotlk casted-damage style and the Cata playstyle would be nice.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#12 Laser

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:45 AM

View PostCtuhlu, on 19 February 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

The main thing to keep in mind with these changes is that I can't see survivablity/control getting any better

What? Have you been looking at the talents?

Wild Charge: Moonkin disengage
Nature's Swiftness: Instant heal or CC that is 50% longer (9 SECOND CLONE)
Renewal: Heals 30% of our max hp every 2 mins
Mass entanglement: Roots whole team for 20 seconds (gg cleaves)
Faerie Swarm: Spammable 50% movement slow on multiple targets (GG CLEAVES)
Disentanglement: Heals 20% of our max hp every time we shift on 30s cd
Might of Ursoc: Increases max mp by 30% (last stand in all forms)
Entangling Roots: Now roots targets in place for 30s (hello root/silence)

I think it would be extremely ignorant to say anything at this point. If MoP is anything like Cata then I am not concerned, moonkins had pretty much one 3v3 comp to run this entire expansion and yet people didnt complain because it was a good comp. I for one am looking forward to all the changes in the coming expansion.
Laser - Bonechewer
Strength - Illidan

#13 Ctuhlu

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 01:37 AM

View PostLaser, on 20 February 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

What? Have you been looking at the talents?

Wild Charge: Moonkin disengage
Nature's Swiftness: Instant heal or CC that is 50% longer (9 SECOND CLONE)
Renewal: Heals 30% of our max hp every 2 mins
Mass entanglement: Roots whole team for 20 seconds (gg cleaves)
Faerie Swarm: Spammable 50% movement slow on multiple targets (GG CLEAVES)
Disentanglement: Heals 20% of our max hp every time we shift on 30s cd
Might of Ursoc: Increases max mp by 30% (last stand in all forms)
Entangling Roots: Now roots targets in place for 30s (hello root/silence)

I think it would be extremely ignorant to say anything at this point. If MoP is anything like Cata then I am not concerned, moonkins had pretty much one 3v3 comp to run this entire expansion and yet people didnt complain because it was a good comp. I for one am looking forward to all the changes in the coming expansion.

You misunderstood that sentence (perhaps I worded it poorly). When I said survivability won't get any better, I meant that the current talent trees are in their overpowered state; ie they will only get nerfed as MoP gets closer to release. Of course control and survivability is better in these trees than it is on live. I just meant that I don't know if it will be enough, especially considering the balance nerfs that are incoming (and the nerfs that will happen when Resto druids have access to all the same things that Balance druids have access to). For instance, instant 8 second cyclone on a 1 min CD is ridiculous and should not go live. If it does, it will have a short lifespan. Things like that will be changed.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#14 Stubsy

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:54 AM

Without reading those posts I still want to say that I hope balance druid won't ever be 100% viable because it's just one of those specs I completely dislike.
Just like demonology locks, arcane mages, bm hunter and so on. I can't really say why that is but
in my opinion those specs should stay 'exotic'.
Maybe I am just biased.

#15 Pawpinbawtlez

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:48 PM

Bring back prot rets, only fun spec in the last 2 xpacs
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#16 Laser

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:43 PM

TBC Shockadins?
Laser - Bonechewer
Strength - Illidan

#17 Persidios

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:12 PM

Bring back dreamstate druids

#18 newwarfare_792670

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 03:35 PM

bring back prot-holy!!

View PostAetarius, on 05 August 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

Shadowplay is the most balanced comp in the game. It takes immense co-ordination and a special breed of players to be successful

#19 Emopandah

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:35 PM

View PostStubsy, on 25 February 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Without reading those posts I still want to say that I hope balance druid won't ever be 100% viable because it's just one of those specs I completely dislike.
Just like demonology locks, arcane mages, bm hunter and so on. I can't really say why that is but
in my opinion those specs should stay 'exotic'.
Maybe I am just biased.
Couldn't agree more with this.

#20 SuwayyahxD

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:51 AM

we stood enough exotic. I want to be capable of rank 1 in 3v3. At least competitive. Through 11 seasons Rogue Mage Priest were always capable of Rank 1. But moonkins only became capable in s5(starfire through inviz %50 hp on target jk) and maybe s9-s10. All classes must have equal chance(dont tell me feral+hunter+shaman/priest have always been rank 1 capable). Im talking only about 3v3 here. In s5 things are more different.




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