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Holy Pally CRIT/MASTERY build


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#1 Kelimepie

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:51 AM

So I'm currently experimenting with a crit mastery holy build on my alt paladin, keylimeawful on Burning blade.

I find I have little to no mana issues with my crit spirit build on my main paladin, Keylimebad on Rivendare, so I figured I'd try and sacrifice spirit and trade it for something else. On my rivendare pally I play with an spriest so that 5% haste buff along with the 9% I get from judging and the passive 3-4% I get from gear is more than enough.

I find I have some mana issues with my mastery build in 2s and 3s, but I think if I switch to plea glyph from insta petfear I should be ok. That remains to be seen though.

On a positive note, the mastery adds a very significant amount of burst healing to all of my spells. I wont be gemming for it over int in any cases, or enchanting for it over int on say my bracers, but at just 15.5% mastery I have a 23% increase to my healing done. With like 2% less crit chance than on my main paladin I do notice a slight lack in Infusion procs for my .5 sec divine light casts, but even that hasn't been such a problem since I add a huge damage shield. My alt pally is significantly undergeared compared to my main, almost 1k spellpower less, but I'll give you some general numbers from my alt pally heals:

NON-crit divine lights: 30k heals on average with kings, 7k damage shield from mastery, vs a 2.4k shield with base mastery. That's 4.6k more healing done. Obviously a crit heal will double all the values.

If I continue gearing mastery i can probably get up from 15.5 to 17 and boost it from a 7k damage shield to 7.3k, all without losing any crit.

In conclusion, if i can get ahold of a raid-finder trinket that replaces my tsunami talisman, i'll increase my spirit by another 400 and perhaps have solid mana regen with plea glyph, ontop of insane burst healing.

There is still much more testing to be done, but I hope this post will inspire some of you to test it out for yourselves.
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#2 averagepriestz

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:16 PM

Why not use plea, fear and dispel?

Last season before the spirit buff I was very much against crit cause of the regen being so poor.

Now I reforge spirit and everything else to crit / haste.

#3 Azorex

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:25 PM

surely the argument for how to gear as a holy pala, or even in general the holy paladin style of play nowadays is that:

when you can heal, you put out ridiculous heals (60k+ 0.9sec cast divine lights anyone?)...obviously its close to a resto shamans heals, but faster....

when you cant heal its all about proccing those faster heals so you have to cast as little as possible, which is where i can see crit being an advantage since more procs is easier healing since you have to cast less.

crit heals are amazing, non crit heals just mean you have to precast the next heal to cover up that difference..

mastery is just adding onto the already bigger heals you do compared to lets say a disc priest (shields not counted)..so i just cant see why mastery would add anything to your game...its like saying if intellect wasnt intellect atm, and it ONLY added spellpower...i think you would see less spell power stacking and more "mana pool+crit+effective regen" geared holy palas like they have been in the past...

TL;DR - pala heals are big enough when they crit, theres no need to add an extra bit on there too...pala heals when they dont crit, mastery shield or not, leave you needing to cast/proc again anyway so that little shield wont determine whether you cast again either.

#4 Ktpearie

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:10 PM

I'm sure someone can do the math (just not be because i'm bad at it) but Mastery as is just isn't worthwhile.  Keeping it really simple full spirit gear and spirit reforge for rbgs (with the exception of maybe belt or something) and full crit reforge for most 3s comps we can play, though that's not news to anyone.  Point being I don't see the need to throw in mastery.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.  THe only situation I can see mastery being useful in is if it were significantly buffed which would allow us to have some form of healing (or in this case absorption) during CC.
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#5 Kelimepie

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:07 PM

View PostKtpearie, on 07 February 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I'm sure someone can do the math (just not be because i'm bad at it) but Mastery as is just isn't worthwhile.  Keeping it really simple full spirit gear and spirit reforge for rbgs (with the exception of maybe belt or something) and full crit reforge for most 3s comps we can play, though that's not news to anyone.  Point being I don't see the need to throw in mastery.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.  THe only situation I can see mastery being useful in is if it were significantly buffed which would allow us to have some form of healing (or in this case absorption) during CC.

I see the points you and the poster above you are making, and they are indeed valid points. I currently stack crit with spirit on my main because as you have both suggested, crit seems to be the dominant stat after intellect. However, the difference between say 21% spellcrit unbuffed and 19% spellcrit unbuffed, although noticable, may be insignificant in lou of the extra healing I can pump out with mastery.

The lack of spirit which I am reforging to mastery is having an impact, but so too are the large absorption effects I land on my partners. r

In response to the poster above you, I agree that 30k DL + 7k absorb is clearly not equal to a 60k crit with a 4.8k absorb. However, the difference in crit chance is only 2%, if that, and that's only because my mastery paladin is severly undergeared. I think once I get full cata sets I will have near to the same crit as my crit/spirit paladin.

As far as my glyphs go, I find HoJ glyph and cleanse glyph irreplaceable. The HoJ glyph helps me avoid significant amounts of CC by helping my positioning and my utility by adding 50% increased range to my HoJ. The cleanse glyph is also invaluable for the amount of mana is saves. I find myself cleansing with at-least half of my GCDs during holy shock cooldowns. That leaves only my fear pet glyph as something which can potentially be replaced. That is also a very useful glyph given the ability to instafear DK pets and lock pets to avoid stuns and spell-locks in tight situations, but since I play with priests and locks so often, the pet fear is usually on significant DR and may not be as useful as it would be if I played a PHD or cleave comp.

In further response to your own post Ktpearie, the saying don't fix what ain't broke applies to an extent. But what If i can improve on said item which "ain't broke" without breaking it?

I think if I can find a way to increase my mana regen, with the raid trinket for instance, and with plea glyph, then perhaps mastery will be just that, an improvement on something that isn't broken, where said improvement does not break it.

I will attempting to keep my crit around 21.5-22% once I'm fully geared, and I will be experimenting with different levels of spirit vs mastery to find the correct balance.
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#6 Staysmalldog

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:36 PM

I remember when that leonard paladin was saying mastery's better than any other stat, now he's stacking spirit instead of crit (i think), awkward.

#7 Arias

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:34 AM

I just came back and have nof ucking idea what I'm doing please help

#8 Staysmalldog

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 03:29 PM

stack crit if you've got heart of unliving, if you've still got tsunami stack half spirit half crit

#9 Ktpearie

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:13 PM

View PostStaysmalldog, on 11 February 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

stack crit if you've got heart of unliving, if you've still got tsunami stack half spirit half crit

or if you have both make everything fucking crit like a boss.
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#10 Staysmalldog

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:03 PM

View PostKtpearie, on 12 February 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

or if you have both make everything fucking crit like a boss.
fu human paladin

#11 Kelimepie

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:43 AM

View PostArias, on 11 February 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

I just came back and have nof ucking idea what I'm doing please help

two ways you can go, either stack just Crit with spirit as secondary, or stack crit with mastery as secondary. Depends on your comp and what kind of playstyle you enjoy.

As an update to the mastery concept I covered in the initial post for this thread, I have been playing it for a few weeks now and am growing more and more fond of mastery. The difference in healing done between my main paladin with 1k more spellpower and greater gear and my pally with the mastery build is insignificant. Once I have the alt fully geared I anticipate a large increase in effective healing done, which includes the stacking mastery shield.

I may be switching my main paladin to mastery in the near future.
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