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NAO Invitational Tournament Feedback


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#21 zephah

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:09 AM

If you want to compare it to professional sports, then it would be like this. You're watching an NFL football game. The whistle blows; the play is dead. The commentator says 'you know what's great? Mountain dew. I really love mountain dew. They sponsor our broadcast so make sure you guys pick up some mountain dew at your grocery store. If you buy mountain dew it really helps the NFL on CBS, so make sure you support our sponsors. Our sponsors at mountain dew are really great to be sponsoring us, so definitely consider buying some mountain dew.'

And then imagine that happening every 5 minutes.

sidenote: wtf is up with the stream today? it's laggy as fuck and is literally making this unwatchable.


That's nothing like what they're doing. You just get really annoyed by shit really easily (as anyone who reads this forum would know) and undeniably hate it like it killed your family.
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#22 Necrolina

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:16 AM

Any chance you could add some of the racials to that list of spells too?
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#23 Leonardo

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:04 AM

Very proud of what the organisers have done. It was a better experience than Blizzcon's arena tourny imo. Azael and Hood will make a sick commentary duo.

Idk if it's possible with twitch but a chat panel with top level players discussing their afterthoughts each game would be a cool feature.

<3 skillcapped
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#24 womanizer123

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:57 AM

allow 3 dps next tourny plz
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#25 Conradical

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:08 AM

The only reason to allow 3 DPS would be to demonstrate how mind numbing the comp is.
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#26 Ellonija

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:32 AM

ban the word swifty from twitch chat
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Sound the charge into glory ride
Over the top of the vanquished pride

By moonlight we ride
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#27 hearthadinlol

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 12:47 PM

azael vhell only please kthx
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#28 Thing_one

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:20 PM

That's nothing like what they're doing. You just get really annoyed by shit really easily (as anyone who reads this forum would know) and undeniably hate it like it killed your family.

You're no different. His point is valid to a degree and no more. You don't need to belittle someone and say things like "anyone who reads this forum would know" just to get your fill for the day.

In any event, I appreciate that Conrad is very grateful to the sponsors but try and keep the gratitude a little more professional in frequency, but the sincerity in your voice is something that you should never change.

I thought Azael was very knowledgeable if not a bit pretentious, I thought he should have tried to dumb the action down for the casual player that could be interested in getting into arena, it is a good thing (as opposed to a stupid one). A good reference, although his knowledge of the patch and the state of the game may be a little hazy, is Vhell.

I do not think that there should be four pre-invited teams. That is merely my opinion, I'm in agreement that there are many good reasons for having them, but four seems a little high when the qualifier admits that many. I think that a good proportion between qualified and pre-invited teams would be around 2:1.

As for disconnects; I think that a disconnect should not be considered a loss for a team the first time, unless that team is at a clear disadvantage in the situation. It shouldn't be very hard to determine that, there is no need for a jury.

I know you guys know most of this stuff; I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to put this together. The determination is very admirable, I think I can speak for everyone when saying that.

Edited by Thing_one, 05 February 2012 - 01:33 PM.

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#29 mukuld50

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:33 PM

I do not think that there should be four pre-invited teams. That is merely my opinion, I'm in agreement that there are many good reasons for having them, but four seems a little high when the qualifier admits that many. I think that a good proportion between qualified and pre-invited teams would be around 2:1.

As for disconnects; I think that a disconnect should not be considered a loss for a team the first time, unless that team is at a clear disadvantage in the situation. It shouldn't be very hard to determine that, there is no need for a jury.


There will be no pre-invited teams at all for the third tournament. Tried to test out how it would go, and yes we agree that there is an advantage for sure. Live and learn.

@ Your dc suggestion - I sort of do like your allowing one dc per series but that really wont work still. That is just like handing a free "reset your match" card to each series. You didnt get a good opener, didnt manage cooldowns properly, trinketted something you shouldnt have and you just "dc". I realize that most players will not do that out of honor, but still does not change the fact that we need hard and fast rules just in-case something does happen.

Last tournament we got a lot of shit for not having proper time limit rules, and a couple more things, just trying to make it more clear for everyone involved, and more importantly for the viewers that are watching.

Edit: Whats up with the AJ helms ;-)

Edited by mukuld50, 05 February 2012 - 01:36 PM.

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#30 Bloobungle

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:17 PM

From a viewing standpoint, I'd love to see better aerial coverage of the fights. There's nothing wrong with the way you run the camera right now however getting relative positioning and movement would be great. Picture yourself sitting on the teams bench watching a sports game and then moving up 10 rows to see it... Field of vision opens up tremendously
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#31 Fluffywrath

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:30 PM

I'm not insulting anyone or anything but, Azael & Vhell should be the commentators or someone equal to their knowledge of the game it got so bad some times i had to just mute stream or else i would be confused because of the wrong call outs and ect. or extremely late information.

I understand this is a player run tournament so nothing was going to be perfect the first time or two, But yes i know a lot of people agree with me that the commentators are the most vital part of tournaments without good ones it basically destroys the whole entire system.

Also the Camera man could be a little better, not saying he did bad but wasn't perfect of course :P

All in All pretty good tournament you guys will perfect things as you have more practice and input from players.
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Oh, but wait.. here comes Fluffywrath, freshly alt-tabbed from watching David Beckham fuck a Soccer ball while all of Manchester United shoots a gay porno around him and grabs the killing blow on Audio for a successful defense and, apparently, successful team ownership.


#32 mukuld50

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:33 PM

From a viewing standpoint, I'd love to see better aerial coverage of the fights. There's nothing wrong with the way you run the camera right now however getting relative positioning and movement would be great. Picture yourself sitting on the teams bench watching a sports game and then moving up 10 rows to see it... Field of vision opens up tremendously


When I did that, most people complained that they wanted a "PoV" view from the players, i.e. trying to simulate how it is in Blizzcon etc.
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#33 zephah

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

You're no different. His point is valid to a degree and no more. You don't need to belittle someone and say things like "anyone who reads this forum would know" just to get your fill for the day.


I appreciate that you're new here, I do.

But he's acting like Conrad is saying it while games are going on, and is taking 3 minutes in between games to say something, when he's really saying quick sentences, maybe twice a series just thanking the people that made this possible.

This is only the qualifier for the second tournament, and it's not exactly common knowledge to anyone all the man hours put in to make this possible, all the people that helped, and who brought this all together. With hundreds of viewers dropping and rejoining the stream, it needs to be said quite often who is helping this all get put together, because without those websites having support, NAO would be in trouble as well.

As for belittling someone, I'm not quite sure you understand what that means. I don't think I went overboard in the fact that as I said: People who come to this board a lot (you are obviously not included in this bunch) would know that the things he constantly whines about are honestly things that most people wouldn't care too much about, but he makes it out like it's the worst thing that's ever happened to him.

Probably 1/3 of the threads he posts in, is a whine about how strong Warlocks are, still. Even in threads about things completely unrelated to class balance, he whines about Warlocks.

Edited by zephah, 05 February 2012 - 07:25 PM.

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#34 Thing_one

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:16 AM

I appreciate that you're new here, I do.

But he's acting like Conrad is saying it while games are going on, and is taking 3 minutes in between games to say something, when he's really saying quick sentences, maybe twice a series just thanking the people that made this possible.

This is only the qualifier for the second tournament, and it's not exactly common knowledge to anyone all the man hours put in to make this possible, all the people that helped, and who brought this all together. With hundreds of viewers dropping and rejoining the stream, it needs to be said quite often who is helping this all get put together, because without those websites having support, NAO would be in trouble as well.

As for belittling someone, I'm not quite sure you understand what that means. I don't think I went overboard in the fact that as I said: People who come to this board a lot (you are obviously not included in this bunch) would know that the things he constantly whines about are honestly things that most people wouldn't care too much about, but he makes it out like it's the worst thing that's ever happened to him.

Probably 1/3 of the threads he posts in, is a whine about how strong Warlocks are, still. Even in threads about things completely unrelated to class balance, he whines about Warlocks.

I realize that you feel there is a need for someone to become the crusader of Arena Junkies but that doesn't mean you need to take the burden upon yourself. Anyone who reads this forum would know that as soon as someone disagrees with you, you make sure you take the time to attack the person's status as a poster and their pride. Do you even play this game, or are you coming here to make completely nonconstructive posts and berate people?

As for how frequently Conrad expressed gratitude to the sponsors, you are merely proving his point that twice a series is too much. A rule of thumb, say once every 30 minutes, is around the appropriate amount.

I don't think you should completely do away with pre-invited teams, because in the spirit of things, arena in Taiwan is a freeticket to Blizzcon.
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#35 Starcookie

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:31 AM

How about using Mind Vision to do the camera? It'd allow you to follow the players the way that MLG used to do. Obviously it'd require leaving a spectator Priest alive in a corner somewhere.
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#36 Pyonx

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:48 AM

How about using Mind Vision to do the camera? It'd allow you to follow the players the way that MLG used to do. Obviously it'd require leaving a spectator Priest alive in a corner somewhere.

Problem is, every time you wish to change target, or MV runs out it'll change the camera areound the player for a short time, interrupting the game for a moment. If Mind Vision was a instant cast, it'd work.

Just my thoughts about it.
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#37 zephah

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:09 AM

I realize that you feel there is a need for someone to become the crusader of Arena Junkies


I call it being Robin Hood.

I stand up for peasant posters by crushing the evil doers who are just trying to cause mayhem. Thus allowing free ability to post whatever you want without fear!

As for how frequently Conrad expressed gratitude to the sponsors, you are merely proving his point that twice a series is too much. A rule of thumb, say once every 30 minutes, is around the appropriate amount.


Why are you saying that once every 30 minutes is enough? If 500 new viewers come in a 20 minute window, and leave without announcement, they may have no idea who is doing all of this work to help the tournament go on, or sponsoring these players, or what they can do to have a chance to play in future tournaments.

If even one of those people go, saying something was worth it.

Once every 30 minutes is too scarce. I don't see how you interpreted what I said as disagreeing with how often Conrad advertised for sponsors.

Edited by zephah, 06 February 2012 - 06:11 AM.

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#38 Lushy

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 07:49 AM

How about using Mind Vision to do the camera? It'd allow you to follow the players the way that MLG used to do. Obviously it'd require leaving a spectator Priest alive in a corner somewhere.

I am pretty sure that will affect with gameplay somehow, but still a decent idea.
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enviqt is so cute

#39 Thing_one

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:30 AM

Why are you saying that once every 30 minutes is enough? If 500 new viewers come in a 20 minute window, and leave without announcement, they may have no idea who is doing all of this work to help the tournament go on, or sponsoring these players, or what they can do to have a chance to play in future tournaments.

If even one of those people go, saying something was worth it.

Once every 30 minutes is too scarce. I don't see how you interpreted what I said as disagreeing with how often Conrad advertised for sponsors.

First off, it is very unlikely if they don't stay around for more than twenty minutes that they would care enough to help the sponsors. All you have accomplished by advertising in that space, to catch those people, is to annoy the actual viewers. You do not need to shove advertising down people's throats. And no, if only one person, or perhaps even twenty, goes out of that group of "500", the opportunity cost of advertising more frequently is too high.

That being said, maybe once every 30 minutes is too scarce, but its not out of the ballpark. If I were actually trying to generate business for sponsors, I would make sincere and informative statements about those sponsors once every 25-30 minutes, and in-between rounds that did not have much to talk about. So I don't annoy the people that are more likely to help my-my sponsor's cause.

A good tip, if you see an upsurge within 15 minutes of the last time you advertised, say, an additional 1,000 viewers to the streams viewer count, then wait 10 minutes before talking about the sponsors. They get the gist of what is going on, and then hear about what made it possible.

As for my interpretation; You're justifying the amount of advertising Conrad did when you clearly have no idea how good advertising works, or economics for that matter.

Edited by Thing_one, 06 February 2012 - 09:57 AM.

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#40 zephah

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:37 AM

have no idea how advertising or economics works? so like, how bud light commercials will air every other commercial break in a one hour program, often times every commercial break

smh, just stop

you guys are acting like he's saying it CONSTANTLY

once a game isn't even too much
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