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NAO Invitational Tournament Feedback


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#221 mukuld50

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:20 PM

Now for some WOW players its ez to committ that time in advance but for others that have jobs etc this can become very challenging.


You would be surprised if I showed you the stats I am collecting on the reasons for rescheduling / issues / other hiccups and all the bad stuff. 1 out of the 33 total issues we have had so far were because of work lol. And I would say that probably about at least 20-22/33 or so *reasons* have just been the player(s) being irresponsible ;)
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#222 subsidal

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:46 PM

Really like the idea of locking a team in 4 days in advance of their first match date. We will definitely implement something like this for T4. Thanks.


glad i could help.. it always worked extremely well.
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#223 Haee

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:59 PM

The players are making drama. If we had a smaller 8 team scaled tournament, it would be just as smooth as the Yaspresents tournament, because those participating 8 teams would be serious about the whole tournament.

Lesson learned, we won't have a 24 team tournament, since there arent 24 serious teams out there.


It might be easier to manage a tournament with a smaller pool of players but personally I was all for NAO to move into this direction. Having to dedicate not only yourself but two other people to transfer to KT-Alliance for the initial two seasons and go through a sign-up process (that part is simple enough). Part of the appeal of widening the tournament to 24 players and switching over to the tournament realm is the accessibility for teams that are serious enough to compete to simply sign up and be good to go but as we can see there are drawbacks as well.

There has got be a balance between the two because quite frankly I think if you constrain the amount of players to a point where it’s basically a small invitational, than we’re only going run into a problem where we’re going to see the same players running the same comps compete against each other making hard to identify one tournament from the other. Yeah admittedly the chances of an unknown overcoming odds of beating teams that have been playing together on KT the entire time might be rare but giving those specific teams the opportunity to at least finding out is really appealing to me personally. My biggest worry though is that if NAO only restricts itself to say 8 teams and inviting the same players than we're basically watching the same tournament under a different name.

Edited by Haee, 31 May 2012 - 09:04 PM.

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#224 mukuld50

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:09 PM

@Haee, I agree with what you said - I and everyone in the NAO staff was really excited to have a larger scale tournament, which would enable some of the unknown faces to have a chance as well.

Diablo 3 coming out mid-tournament, and the whole end of this expansion being extremely lack luster is not really helping the cause though.

I still personally think that 8 person tournaments are too small and pigeon holed - a sweet spot, for WoW in it's current state may be like 16 teams or something. Or if there is a way for us to make sure that teams will take it seriously (because a lot of them do not).

Some ideas we have had:

1. Some sort of entry fee to the tournament, monetary or not (again, no this would not go to our pockets, it would go to the prize pool and make it a bigger prize) - this probably is not viable since it will awaken the whole universe of trolls.

2. Offer some sort of an incentive for teams that win series, and follow our standards and rules. The whole concept of "banning" from NAO does not seem to work for many, only thing that would be viable here is offering actual money per series win outside of the main prize pool. But then again, we are working with really limited funds.

I have drawn a blank on what else could be done - any suggestions would be appreciated.
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#225 Synkz

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:27 PM

Maybe some sort of a prize at the end of the tournament for all teams that did not cause any unforeseen problems, something along the lines of an in-game mount or pet or even a t-shirt.

Kind of like a medal of participation that elementary schools used to give out on track-and-field days to all the kids.
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#226 mukuld50

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:59 PM

A good idea PM'ed to me, thought I would share it here:

mukuld50,

Leaflet has sent you a new personal conversation entitled "NAO suggestion".

Leaflet said:
==============================
========================================
Hi! First of all, congrats to you and all the NAO staff for putting these tournaments together, couldn't thank you guys enough for doing so much for the community.

My suggestion to make the teams take it seriously is to have an entry fee, but one which is given back to the teams IF (and only if) they attend all their scheduled games. It would definitely provide an incentive for teams to show up. As you would be giving the money back to the teams (providing they all show up), trolls wouldn't really have any basis for their accusations. The extra money you get in case any teams don't show up could be added to the prize pool. Because all games are streamed viewers would be able to see that the extra money added to the prize pool corresponds to the money that is not given back to the teams that don't show up.

Couldn't post this on the NAO Invitational Tournament Feedback thread so I thought I would send you a message with my suggestion. This rule might need some adjustments but I do believe it would work.

Anyways just y 2 cents, keep up the good work.
======================================================================
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#227 Bloobungle

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:21 AM

I can't imagine players wanting to send someone money to play in an online tournament. And even if they did, are we talking $5? $20? $100? I could care less about passing up $5 and certainly would not dish over $100 to play (My house was struck by lightning and I couldn't log-in... Who would know?)

There are two things that seem more reasonable to me:
1) If the team doesn't show up, they simply forfeit the match. It's as simple as that. Too bad grandma needed her prunes. You missed your tee time

2) Have a handful of teams on the waiting list that can take over their spot. It's terrible to watch teams who clearly have no interest or put no effort into preparing as I'm sure it is to commentate for them. At least fill the games with players who are enthusiastic about being there and will provide some sort of entertainment (I feel really bad for Europeans who stay up to see a drama show)


And I do think shrinking the pool size would be beneficial in many regards. The only thing that worries me here is that your selection process tends to cater to teams with a history of gladiator titles and in some cases, an extreme benefit of the first week or two of the current season for grinding rating. Should I just expect to see the same 24 players every tournament?

Edited by Bloobungle, 01 June 2012 - 01:22 AM.

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#228 Champ

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:35 AM

I can't imagine players wanting to send someone money to play in an online tournament. And even if they did, are we talking $5? $20? $100? I could care less about passing up $5 and certainly would not dish over $100 to play (My house was struck by lightning and I couldn't log-in... Who would know?)

1) If the team doesn't show up, they simply forfeit the match. It's as simple as that. Too bad grandma needed her prunes. You missed your tee time


First of all, most people are good enough friends with their team to have each others numbers to text/call if lightning were to strike their house.


2nd, making a team forfeit doesn't solve the the problem that when a team starts to lose, or thinks they have no chance to make it out of the round. They are WAY more likely to just troll or not show up (a few teams just straight up said they are dropping out in the past, which imo is disrespectful as fuck for everyone involved) for their remaining matches, which isn't good for the NAO organizing scheduling wise. Just letting a team forfeit games all the time isn't good for the viewers, or the people participating in the tourny

Edited by Champ, 01 June 2012 - 01:43 AM.

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#229 Kelarm

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:28 AM

I'd go with simple solutions before something like making people send money in to enter. Not many online tournaments operate that way, this isn't Pokerstars.

I'd start with dropping the round robin format. It's a great format but it clearly does not work that well for NAO, probably mostly due to the fact that the arena community is garbage. As I recall, NAO1/2 did not use round robin. That would eliminate the issue with teams losing a couple series out of the gate and then just blowing off another 4 and completely screwing up the broadcasting. That also eliminates the issue with the tournaments taking fucking forever, it can be difficult to say for sure whether you're going to be available on a weekend evening like 6 weeks from now for one series.

Honestly, round robin is a better format for a game like WoW because its so ridiculously imbalanced and you can easily get screwed in, say, a double elimination format just because of the first couple of comps you had to fight, but if you're worried about viewership and streamlining this is obviously not the way to go.

You could also simply have a pool of contacts of the best players in the game - you probably already have a lot of them on skype. If a team doesn't show up, just start messaging people until you have 2 teams to play a series, even if they aren't real teams who are polished and play together. It shouldn't be TOO hard to get 6 people, given that a lot of them are probably watching the stream already. The viewers are generally much much lower rated and will still enjoy seeing high level players play. They even enjoy the dumb 2v2s to waste time. You could do this while preparing for the next real series if those teams aren't ready, or even at the end just to get the full broadcasting time you scheduled.

Edited by Kelarm, 04 June 2012 - 02:48 AM.

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#230 Champ

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:35 PM

As I recall, NAO1/2 did not use round robin.


Every NAO has been round robin
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#231 ss2b24

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:44 AM

they use round robin for the beginning stage, then once thats done its i think double elimination
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#232 Synkz

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:38 AM

I think the viewer count went up during Conrad's Trivia Time :D
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#233 Conradical

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:32 AM

I think the viewer count went up during Conrad's Trivia Time :D


+rep
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#234 Trevo

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 01:45 AM

It's a shame that disconnection bugs (the one where you hug a wall and get DC'd) and DDoSing and such sometimes end up matches in a lame way. But excellent job with all these tournaments and thanks for the tons of entertainment so far!
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Kebabman's everything

#235 Espenene

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:04 AM

vhell pls
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#236 Haee

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:10 PM

I'm not sure if this is an unreasonable feature to ask for but before I recall MLG dropping WoW from it's circuit events they would use this "listening in" feature that made it so that they would tap into a team's voice chat and you could hear them communicating with one another and switch between this audio feed and the one that the MLG commentators used. I’m sure MLG players or several people that watched it back in the day will remember what I’m talking about.

I know there are several downsides to using this which is that you'll be using less commentary and another involving privacy concerns but I believe that if there's a single aspect to WoW that makes it interesting to watch over other games is listening in on a team verbally communicating with each other. I think a lot of teams that played closely with each other have the tendency to say unique things that you wouldn’t really hear from any other game (this dude is in Africa, infinity damage, etc).
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#237 Fadezz^

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:15 AM

I'm not sure if this is an unreasonable feature to ask for but before I recall MLG dropping WoW from it's circuit events they would use this "listening in" feature that made it so that they would tap into a team's voice chat and you could hear them communicating with one another and switch between this audio feed and the one that the MLG commentators used. I’m sure MLG players or several people that watched it back in the day will remember what I’m talking about.

I know there are several downsides to using this which is that you'll be using less commentary and another involving privacy concerns but I believe that if there's a single aspect to WoW that makes it interesting to watch over other games is listening in on a team verbally communicating with each other. I think a lot of teams that played closely with each other have the tendency to say unique things that you wouldn’t really hear from any other game (this dude is in Africa, infinity damage, etc).


listening in on voice chat will indeed provide unique things you wouldnt normally hear in a pro setting of another game. Shit talking comes to mind. Crap community
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#238 mukuld50

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:43 AM

Yea profanity etc would be hard to control (to a certain extent we would not mind certain profanity, but racial slurs tend to slip out a lot from WoW players). Also, we have tried to tune into some teams, but they have straight out refused to let us listen in on Skype, and we cant really force them to, especially if we do not have any sort of rule that regulates that.
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