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4.3 PvP Necessary Changes


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#1 Guest_Talbadar_*

Guest_Talbadar_*

Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:46 AM

*
POPULAR

I posted this in another thread, but others wanted more discussion on the topic. With 4.3 changes coming out, I created the list of changes that I thought would be best for all the PvPers of the game, with little to no effect on PvE as well. I participate in both aspects of the game so I know a lot about how each work with each other and attempted to address problems in both fields. As said in the Topic Description, constructive discussion only. There will be no tl;dr, sorry.

General:
-East Coast battlegroups must have their ladders merged. The same respectively for West Coast battlegroups. The same goes for all other regions for Europe.
**The cross-battlegroup queue system was a great addition to the game. It came with many flaws, however. It waits 4-8 minutes before you can even get a team from a different battlegroup. This will also make the ladders much more interesting and many more people would queue. I doubt many would care how rank 1 would work, as long as the queues are fast.
-Bring back 5 wins a week for arena to cap points and 3 wins of RBGs to cap points.
**I have PvP'd in this game since the beginning. The idea of PvP from the start has always been of a casual nature. However, when you changed the amount of points gained from a single arena/RBG win to a static number it left me totally confused. Not only did it make it more difficult to cap when your cap was only 1350/1650; it made top arena players have to queue for multiple hours a week just for points. Why so long? The queue times are 4-8 minutes and you have to win 15 arena games on that character to cap and 7-8 RBGs. Top players will have 75% win or so, so 20 arena games with 6 minute average queues, 1 minute in the starting zone, and a 3 minute game on average is playing for over 3 hours per week just getting points. Bring back the casualness of PvPing. I have 3 alts that are all high rated, so it's impossible for me to play the 12 hours just to get points on each character.
-Bring Curse of Tongues, Necrotic Strike, Mind Numbing, etc down to a 15% or 20% reduction in cast time.
**This is a problem I have experienced since the beginning of arena in BC. Back when it was 60% cast time it was difficult to do anything as most classes. It was reduced to 30% in WotLK, but it was still really powerful then as well. Top players were able to shut down DoT classes while sacrificing huge amounts of damage (Wound/Deadly Poison for Mutilate and Curse of Agony for Warlocks). It is more of a problem now than ever, though. I will go through each one separately. Rogues generally use Wound Poison on their main hand and Crippling Poison on their off-hand. Wound poison does a high amount of damage (7-10% of your damage) and applies a 10% healing debuff. All rogues now against any caster will gladly drop that no matter what to be able to easily lockdown casters. The next class I would like to go over is Warlocks. Warlocks in the past have had to lose 15-20% of their damage to use Curse of Tongues. Now they only lose the ability to apply Curse of Elements, an 8% increase in damage. Every top Warlock now just constantly keeps tongues up on any caster in arena, healer or DPS. Death Knights are less of a problem overall than the other two, but it's still a big issue. Especially versus healers, Death Knights are able to frontload 2-3 major cooldowns and dump 10-12 Necrotic Strikes within the first 15 seconds of a match. The only healer able to survive that without using every single cooldown and massive peels from partners is a Holy Paladin. The problem with the situation is that once their cooldowns fall you are left with a 30% cast time reduction so it's almost impossible to recover (I like the idea of Necrotic Strike in general, just not the severity of the cast time reduction). The last thing I want to mention is that every class now has a damage over time effect. Introduced in WotLK, your haste affects your DoTs. Shadow Priests have the most haste of out anyone with 20-25% depending on gear. Most other classes have 13-18%. Cast time reductions also affect DoT ticks NEGATIVELY. So when I have a cast time reduction I actually have -5% haste which you can also look at as cast time slows giving you approximately -4000 haste rating. My final point on the topic is this: the game is made to have fun. PvP is supposed to be fun. Having to press Curse of Tongues and lose damage for a cast time poison is really not fun. Even worse, it's less fun when your DoTs tick less often and less times while your spells take longer to cast.
-Reset all player MMR to 1500 to start the next season.
**The game balance this season has felt solid, but the reason the arena playerbase has been slowly diminishing was because of the MMR changes made at the beginning of this season. First, some players lost 200 MMR out of the blue where others did not. Then, how MMR worked was changed completely which made exploiting near impossible. The huge downside to that change was players who never left their teams in the first place and played during the first couple weeks had a monstrous advantage. Achieving a rating above 2700 is only possible with a team of elite players, and getting up to 2800-3100 is impossible now. For me, I have 2 teams above 3030, and queuing on them is impossible with 3100 MMR. I could sit in the queue for 20 minutes and never see the queue pop. But this change isn't for the top percentage anyway. The ladder is messed up, players aren't able to queue into other teams of similar skill because some players have inflated MMRs from last season and others have a deflated MMR from playing with many different players. Please listen to the community on this one!
-Stimulate the PvP Scene by adding the ability to spectate ladder games or war games while logged into the game as a normal player.
**Many of the games I play nowadays (even very simple ones) have the amazing feature of being able to watch other players fight against each other. The game would be better than ever with the ability to just watch your friends or great players play the game. I cannot see it being a hassle transferring the Spectator UI over into the player's hands.
Maps
-Dalaran Arena
This map should have 4 sets of stairs leading up to the higher plateform. The location of the stairs would not be at the corners of the platform, though. There would be stairs in the middle of each side leading up to the platform. This way, there will be more LoS in different locations so the fights could move around the map. Hunters would have less trouble being left on the bottom for too long as well. Also, the waterfall should not be active in an arena match at any time. It was a cool idea at the start, but it's too game-breaking with how it functions in PvP (slowly appearing over time then becoming LoS). There has also been a bug for the past few months where if you get Feared on the bottom you can walk straight through the gates and have to be teleported to the middle of the map.
-Nagrand Arena
Everything about the map is great. Just smooth the terrain out. Gnomes have a disadvantage at various spots on the map because of the uneven terrain.
-Blade's Edge Arena
Same with Nagrand with the terrain. The center under the bridge should be flat. The walls at the top of the bridge should not provide LoS (let alone be different on both sides). The holes in the bridge need to be repaired. The small pillars need to be repaired as well.
-Ring of Valor
Pets get stuck far too often on top of the pillars. I think Ring of Valor is an interesting map now that the sides have been changed, and I think the dynamic of the pillars is actually a good thing. The reason Ring of Valor was disliked at the start was the starting locations (and fire). It changes the game for a lot of comp vs comp match-ups, but it's still a keeper. Warriors also cannot use Charge on a player who is on the pillar (even when down) and cannot Charge while on the pillar when it's down.
-Ruins of Lordaeron
Please fix the tomb in the center. The random large cracks in it cause players to get stuck. The hills in the arena to the side also should be flattened as it causes unnecessary LoS. There should be small tombstones on the sides of the arena that provide LoS as well.

Death Knight:
-Remove the glyph of Anti-Magic Shell and increase the cooldown of AMS by 15 seconds.
**Death Knights have lots of survivability versus casters with the ability to IBF, Ghoul Sac, AMS every 45 seconds, Lichborne out of Fear/Charm and be immune, Strangulate, Death Strike, and pet abilities. These changes will prevent Death Knights from pretty much using AMS freely in PvP just to prevent spells from being cast on them. With a 7 second duration, there is only a 38 second window to kill a Death Knight as a caster. If you factor in their other cooldowns you have to go through their cooldowns multiple times to kill them, even solo. This will also prevent Death Knights from abusing the ability in PvE, especially as DPS. If tanks really need AMS for mitigation then there could be a Blood talent to increase the duration and/or reduce the cooldown.
-Death Knights could use a little help in survivability versus melee (only a SMALL buff would do here).
**I'm at a loss for a good change here, but without the small passive self heals and passive damage reduction (outside of armor) that other melee have with low mobility versus another melee class it's simply hard for a Death Knight to live.
-Desecration should be a 30% snare, have it's duration decreased, have an internal cooldown, or only proc off Death  Strike.
**This has been in the game for far too long. The spell lasts 20 seconds on the ground. Thinking in the big picture here, this affects all parts of the game. It lagged people for a long time in Raids. In Rated Battlegrounds, you'll be running around on your mount and all of a sudden you're in Desecration (usually not just one!) after a fight is over. The duration is unbelievable and so is the delay on the duration of the snare when you are outside of it. This also affects arena a lot just because it's difficult to move around without being in desecration for a long time.
Please change the energy cost on Gnaw (Monstrous Blow, too, during Dark Transformation) to be lower than that of Claw (Sweeping Claws during Dark Transformation).
**Currently, Claw costs 40 energy and Gnaw costs 30 energy. If you try to use Gnaw at any point it most likely will not work because it will already have Claw queued up and you only have a one second window to press it. You need Auto-Claw on to keep up the high pet damage. Players have been having to turn off Auto-Claw while playing to cast Gnaw and then turn it back on to do damage once again. A small change like making Gnaw cost 20 energy or 0 energy would be enough here.
You should be able to cast Hungering Cold while moving.
**Instant cast Hungering Cold on a 1-minute cooldown was too good. However, when it was changed to a cast time players found it to be clunky and out of place as Frost's final talent. It would make much more sense for a melee class to be able to cast such a spell while moving.

Druid:
-Change Predatory Swiftness ONLY to fix cyclone. I have a lot of suggestions for this, but here's my top two. Predatory Swiftness now reduces the cast time of all spells by 20% per combo point, and 10% per combo point for Cyclone. Another one is: Predatory swiftness now has a 20% chance per combo point to allow you to cast spells while in a feral form for the duration of the buff (maybe technical limitations, though).
**These changes will stop ferals from being able to abuse cyclone spam in PvP with virtually no way of stopping them. They continue to put out massive damage while being able to control a player every 10 seconds for free. On top of partners assisting that control or damage (Priest/Mage/Feral or Feral/Melee/Healer comes to mind) just makes it truly difficult to deal with. Ferals can also be really clever with those changes and still do most of what they do now, but without the ease (which is the problem).
-Nerf Wild Growth by another 5%, but in return buff the HoT on Lifebloom by 20%.
**Wild Growth has been nerfed by 20% already. I dont have all the exact numbers, but I can tell you this. Generally in 25 man raiding Wild Growth is 25-35% of your healing where Lifebloom is 8-10% of your healing. In 10 man raiding Wild Growth is usually 15-20% of your healing with Lifebloom at 13-15% of your healing. (If you don't trust the numbers there's plenty of data of World of Logs!) Another nerf to Wild Growth might be overkill, but I have reasoning for these changes. PvP druids need help. I played with the best 2 PvP druids in the world, and they both have since stopped PvPing. Simply said, Druid HoTs cannot keep up with the damage output of players in arena. Most of the reason Druids are so good in PvE is their spread healing. Their single target outside of Healing Touch and Nourish spam (unusable in PvP) is lackluster. This change would put the funnest healer to play with and against in arena back on the map.
-You should be able to shapeshift in and out of Tree of Life form while the buff is active.
**This happens nearly every game so this would be much more than a quality of life change. One of the reasons Druids were so powerful in the past is their ability to shapeshift out of snares and into Travel Form to escape danger. In Tree of Life form sure you heal for more, but if are swapped to or Mana Burned in that form you might as well not be in Tree of Life anymore. If you are swapped to you just have to stand there and tank the damage; using up a large amount of mana as well as being unable to get away.
-Please fix Typhoon.
**Typhoon currently has a major bug that affects both PvE and PvP. While aiming correctly, it will sometimes fail to do anything. I've heard A LOT of complaints about this.
-Add pushback protection baseline to the Restoration spec or any talent in the tree.
**Very often in PvP, a Restoration Druid is able to cast a spell and it will receive major pushback from a pet or a player and cause the spell to be pushed back long enough for it to not be worth casting in the first place. Please give them the 70% pushback protection that most classes had in WotLK.
The mid-tier Balance talent Owlkin Frenzy (or a new talent) should also cause you to gain a buff called Entangling Frenzy after Barkskin expires for 3/6/8 seconds. Entangling Frenzy causes melee attacks to root the target. This shares diminishing returns with other roots.
**Moonkins are a fun class in PvP when you are able to freely cast spells. However, Moonkins are the worst caster while being trained. They only have Barkskin to reduce damage taken and they can only put their normal 2 DoTs up or choose to use their weak heals, go into Bear Form for other abilities, or shift in and out of form to attempt to get away. This will give Moonkins a nice way to survive better against melee.

Hunter:
-There needs to be a Minor or Major Glyph of Scatter Shot reading: Your Scatter Shot ability now removes all DoT effects from the target.
**Hunters really need PvP love right now. They have high burst and frontload cooldown damage, but for years their control has always been really difficult to deal with. Traps being affected by spell penetration was a good start, but this is definitely a necessity for Hunters.
-Entrapment should also also cause Wing Clip to root the target for 4 seconds, but still be subject to diminishing returns on the other Entrapment effects.
**Hunters have deadzone issues in PvP. When faced with a melee in their face they are unable to do much when they are low on cooldowns. Hunters have low survability in general so having a melee stick to you for more than a few seconds is deadly.
-Freezing Trap and Scatter Shot should only break on damage, but similar to how Fear works with about half the cap.
**Freezing Trap is unreliable in PvP. It can be taken by other players, it can miss completely, and it can break to any DoT (including Snake Trap!). This will help Hunters land their CC much easier.
-The 4-piece Hunter PvP bonus should reduce the cast time of Steady Shot and Cobra Shot by 0.2 seconds.
**Again, Hunters have trouble with focus regeneration and deadzone in PvP. They can't get much out of these two abilities without lowering the cast time a bit.
-Redesign Raptor Strike. I'm sure there will be better suggestions, but for now include this statement in the description: Successfully landing a Raptor Strike increases your dodge chance by 20% for 6 seconds.
**This ability has little to no use anymore. It's attack power scaling is way off and there is little a Hunter can do in close melee range. This will give them some help while being trained by melee.

Mage:
-Ice Lance should deal 20% less damage to frozen targets or while Fingers of Frost is up.
**Out of all the DPS classes, or any class in general right now, Mages are the number one class to be complained about; not only from other classes, but the Mages themselves. Their damage in PvP is completely centered around Ice Lance with the occasional Frostbolt now. I've had hundreds of arena games versus mages where they cast 5 Frostbolts, but 80+ Ice Lances where Cone of Cold and Frost Nova did more damage than Frostbolt. This nerf is just the beginning of multiple changes that I would like to better the game, life for other classes, and life for Frost Mages.
-Frostbolt should deal 20% more damage to targets that are not frozen, but the same damage still to targets that are frozen.
**Players have the most fun when they successfully cast a spell, and it means something. Right now, casting Frostbolt generally doesn't mean much in terms of the damage done aside from procs and snares. This would increase Mage consistancy while freecasting, as well as make the game a lot more enjoyable for all players. I'm not entirely sure if the numbers for Ice Lance and Frostbolt would be correct, but I can check the numbers out in current gear to give you an idea of what it's like.
-Frost Nova should last 4 seconds as well as the pet nova "Freeze". However, Frost Nova should no longer be dispellable. The Cone of Cold root should also last 2 seconds and be undispellable. Each root would only share diminishing returns with itself.
**This may be a good change for a future expansion, but there has been a lot of talk about this change between the top arena players. Not only did Mages enjoy the change, but healers, casters, and even melee alike wanted this. This would allow Mages to have guarenteed control with their novas and bring less annoyance to healers and melee dealing with the novas. The melee know that it's only 4 seconds and the healer knows they don't have to spend 3-4 dispels trying to get the annoyed melee out of the nova. The Mage can also stop complaining about people chain dispelling their novas with no dispel protection.
-The cast time on Polymorph should be reduced back down to 1.3 seconds, down from 1.7 seconds.
**One goal of PvP in Cataclysm was to reduce the control that Mages and Warlocks had over other players with quick casted spammable control abilities. Fear got hit with the same nerf, but with the ability to easily cover your Fears with DoTs the cast time did virtually nothing to them outside of losing a large amount of haste from WotLK to cata (Fear is in a good spot basically). However, Polymorph got hit too hard. With every healer now having dispel it's very difficult to Polymorph anyone besides the healer. Even then it's very easy to interrupt, line of sight, or Shadow Word: Death. One big oversight of the change is that Mages had 30-40% haste in WotLK. With haste now being the worst DPS stat for mages, they barely ever even get to cast the spell unless it's with Improved Counterspell or Deep Freeze.
-The cooldown on Cold Snap should be reduced to 6 minutes, down from 8 minutes.
**Rogues got this same treatment for a reason. The class is too reliant on major cooldowns, and with such a strong cooldown being on such a long cooldown it's difficult to consistently have any cooldowns up.
-The cooldown on Summon Water Elemental should be reduced to 2 minutes, down from 3 minutes.
**Frost Mages have issues with some players targetting their Water Elemental in PvP. It dies pretty fast, and causes them to lose damage, control, and survivability. With such a long cooldown it's hard to get back up and running.
-Add a talent past tier 2 in the fire tree, Fiery Reversal. Fiery Reversal would read: Whenever you take damage equal to or greater than 10% of your total health, you have a 100% chance for your next Pyroblast cast within 15 seconds to be instant cast and cost no mana.
**Fire Mages could use some help in PvP. They have some decent burst and Combustion is really powerful. They could use something to help while being trained. They have plenty of tools in other areas of PvP such as Rated Battlegrounds, but there isn't much you can do outside of tank a lot of damage when trained.

Paladin:
-Please lower Retribution Paladin's ABILITY to frontload cooldowns in bursty melee cleaves or triple DPS setups.
**Now, I realize Paladins are a class that is changed heavily with every patch, but a common theme throughout the expansion has been Retribution Paladins rushing in using every cooldown and trying to essentially win instantly or lose after a couple minutes. Nobody really wants the spec to be like that. Outside of that I don't see any changes necessary to the two other specs.


Priest:
-Mind Blast damage should be reduced 15% in exchange for a 6% damage buff to Vampiric Touch, Shadow Word: Pain, and Devouring Plague.
**I did some thorough calculation on this change and it would barely even tough Shadow in PvE in terms of damage spread on various fights. There aren't too many fights where you benefit from this change except for fights with only 2-3 mobs or a bunch of mobs that aren't grouped. Regardless, this change will also bring back Shadow Priests using Mind Blast only with an orb instead of on cooldown in PvE, which is a quality of life kind of change. Quite often you have to make the choice between Mind Blasting and letting your Empowered Orbs buff fall off before your next Mind Blast for a small damage increase. Anyway onto the reasoning behind a change like this. Shadow Priests hit much too hard currently in PvP with Mind Blast. For some numbers, I can crit people for upwards of 40-50k with 3 Orbs and an on use trinket. Players have 130k health so hitting them for 40% of their health in Cataclysm is pretty unacceptable. The DoT damage change is to bring back multi-dotting being good in PvP. It takes a lot of effort to get full Empowered Orbs'd DoTs on two players, but currently the damage it does for that effort feels lackluster. The main point of this change is the Mind Blast damage, however.
-Shadow should do approximately 20% less healing with all spells (shields too), however that can be arranged.
**Holy and Discipline in PvE and PvP will be in great spots in 4.3. However, Shadow in arena has benefitted too much from the healing trees. It is possible to heal your teammates for 15k Flash Heals where Discipline with 3 stacks of Grace only heals for 22k.

Rogue:
-The armor reduction modifier on Find Weakness should be changed to 50%, down from 70%
**In PvP right now, Rogues just simply do too much damage with Find Weakness active. Outside of that their damage is balanced.
-The duration of the vanish stealth immunity should be reduced to 1.0 seconds, down from 3.0 seconds.
**This change will prevent Rogues from using Vanish as an easy getaway tool. They can vanish and sprint to be literally 100 yards away from you in 3 seconds with multiple DoT effects on them. As short as one second is, it's more than enough time to get behind your target in time without it being too easy or too difficult to do. Using Vanish to run is fine, but using it to get out of a fight completely is not fine.

Shaman:
-Thunderstorm should return 10% of maximum mana, up from 8%.
**Elemental Shamans have no mana issues in PvE, so this is a helpful buff to Elemental Shamans in PvP. For most classes in the expansion, mana is infinite with correct cooldown and ability management over the course of a long game. For Elemental Shamans, though, it's very difficult to play a game longer than 5-10 minutes as your mana is deleted to 0 over and over between Thunderstorms.
-Spirit Link Totem should reduce damage taken by 20%. The totem should only exchange health up to a maximum of 15% of the Shaman's healthpool every second for the 6 seconds and also have 13,000 health instead of 5.
**Sorry if the wording is hard to understand, but the point is this. Spirit Link Totem is too good in PvP, and slightly too weak in PvE. Even if you were to kill Spirit Link Totem as soon as it was dropped on a teammate, they are already at 50-60% and out of kill range once again. Even though the totem just exchanges health, it is really hard to deal with a healer that has all of that utility with 2 major life-saving cooldowns. This change will give the totem a more dynamic role. It will no longer exchange all of the health instantly, but slowly as the 6 seconds occur. The totem will have additional health so players MUST kill the totem to prevent the exchange of health from coming. Good players will be able to kill the totem quickly, while good shamans can drop Stoneclaw and give the totem basically 21,000 health to prevent it's death. Even if the totem is killed quickly, the opponents will have to waste 21k damage killing the totem instead of the player, all the while taking 20% reduced damage. The 20% reduced damage is also a PvE change. Shamans need more utility in PvE.
-Reduce the buff to Riptide down to 20%, and in exchange increase the healing done by Chain Heal by 20%.
**A buff to Riptide of a 40% magnitude would really break PvP. Shamans already rarely have to cast and this is more reason not to cast. Riptide will tick for 3500 which means it will crit for 7k. On targets with large healing modifiers such as their buddies Warlocks this expansion, it will tick for nearly 5k. Fun fact: Lifebloom ticks for 2200 with 3 stacks.
The cooldown of Tremor Totem should be increased to 90 seconds, up from 60. You should also no longer be able to drop Tremor Totem while feared.
**Tremor Totem is currently too powerful versus Warlocks, way too powerful versus Priests, and just a counter to the only AoE CC Warriors have. Shamans will still have their incredibly powerful tool, just on a longer cooldown. The final part of the change would add more skill to the class. You could drop the totem preemptively when a Priest or Warlock is chasing you trying to get a Fear.

Warlock:
-Demon Armor should increase healing taken by 10%, down from 20%.
**Demon Armor in conjunction with Demonic Aegis make the combo too strong in PvP while being trained as a Warlock. Taking 30% more healing as a caster class is unfair for everyone. Even with the choice between the two armors and swapping it requiring skill and vision, it's still too good.
-Demonic Rebirth should have a 3 minute cooldown, up from 2 minutes.
**Killing pets used to be too good, and too viable. Nowadays, in Cataclysm, you could kill 5 pets within a few minutes and Warlocks are still able to chain summon them instant cast. Their pet class buddies, Hunters and Frost Mages, would like to know why it's THAT simple to get another pet out when you already have a casted one to boot.
-The cooldown on Demonic Portal: Teleport should be increased to 40 seconds, up from 30 seconds.
**With the PvP gloves and the glyph it is 23 seconds right now. Not many use the glyph, so this change will bring the spell from 25 seconds to 35 seconds. As said in a previous change, Warlock survivability is too high. On multiple maps, players can abuse the teleport and run laps around the map while they are dying and make them near impossible to kill. This was help to prevent them from prolonging their death while their healer is unable to heal them.
-Jinx should no longer stand you up while drinking.
**When you receive the Jinx debuff after previously not having it you still stand up from drinking. Please fix this!

Warrior:
Add a talent deep in the Arms tree, Die by the Shield. Die by the Shield reduces the cooldown of Spell Reflect by 5/10 seconds, the cooldown of Revenge by 2/4 seconds, increases the block chance on Shield Block by 38%/75%, and increases the amount of damage blocked while Shield Block is active by an additional 15%/30%.
**Yes, this talent looks like it would do a lot. However, Arms Warriors lost their main defensive utilites versus casters and melee alike moving into this expansion. Spell Reflect should be 15 seconds for Arms. They are left helpless too often when at ranged against casters. The Shield Block and Revenge changes are to make Shield Block useful for Arms. Previously, you could go into Defensive Stance and block all normal attacks from melee classes and about half of most special abilities. Right now, it's barely worth using because it only blocks 30% of the time and when it does block it blocks nothing. Warriors are supposed to be the best toe-to-toe melee class and right now they just are not.
Enraged Regeneration should no longer require an Enraged effect to use. Instead, Enraged Regeneration should cost 30 Rage to use.
**The requirement for the ability is an archaic mechanic. You should not be punished for using Berserker Rage to break a Fear or an Incapacitate then not be able to use your defensive cooldown.

Edited by Talbadar, 26 October 2011 - 06:57 PM.


#2 Nmplol

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:53 AM

Do you think fear and poly should share DR?

#3 Porkz

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:54 AM

Hi.

#4 kravnos

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:56 AM

hunter 4 pc gives 0.2 focus/second doubling that is still terrible

#5 cono2156

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:59 AM

Bring back BC please.
[7:08:27 PM] Ktpearie: animalcrckr is the shittiest lock i've ever seen, i've legitimately seen black people playing in their tipi in africa on a wooden screen do better

View PostAnimalcrackr, on 04 September 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

yeah, idk why tibz was selling the shit hunter and shit priest 2200. he should prbly have someone play their accounts or something to ease the process.

:lol:

#6 osorandom

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:41 AM

View PostTalbadar, on 09 October 2011 - 04:46 AM, said:



Mage:
-Ice Lance deals 20% less damage to frozen targets or while Fingers of Frost is up.
**Out of all the DPS classes, or any class in general right now, Mages are the number one class to be complained about; not only from other classes, but the Mages themselves. Their damage in PvP is completely centered around Ice Lance with the occasional Frostbolt now. I've had hundreds of arena games versus mages where they cast 5 Frostbolts, but 80+ Ice Lances where Cone of Cold and Frost Nova did more damage than Frostbolt. This nerf is just the beginning of multiple changes that I would like to better the game, life for other classes, and life for Frost Mages.
-Frostbolt should deal 20% more damage to targets that are not frozen, but the same damage still to targets that are frozen.
**Players have the most fun when they successfully cast a spell, and it means something. Right now, casting Frostbolt generally doesn't mean much in terms of the damage done aside from procs and snares. This would increase Mage consistancy while freecasting, as well as make the game a lot more enjoyable for all players. I'm not entirely sure if the numbers for Ice Lance and Frostbolt would be correct, but I can check the numbers out in current gear to give you an idea of what it's like.
-Frost Nova should last 4 seconds with no diminishing return as well as the pet nova "Freeze". However, Frost Nova should no longer be dispellable. The Cone of Cold root should also last 2 seconds and be undispellable.
**This may be a good change for a future expansion, but there has been a lot of talk about this change between the top arena players. Not only did Mages enjoy the change, but healers, casters, and even melee alike wanted this. This would allow Mages to have guarenteed control with their novas and bring less annoyance to healers and melee dealing with the novas. The melee know that it's only 4 seconds and the healer knows they don't have to spend 3-4 dispels trying to get the annoyed melee out of the nova. The Mage can also stop complaining about people chain dispelling their novas with no dispel protection.
-The cast time on Polymorph should be reduced back down to 1.3 seconds, down from 1.7 seconds.
**One goal of PvP in Cataclysm was to reduce the control that Mages and Warlocks had over other players with quick casted spammable control abilities. Fear got hit with the same nerf, but with the ability to easily cover your Fears with DoTs the cast time did virtually nothing to them outside of losing a large amount of haste from WotLK to cata (Fear is in a good spot basically). However, Polymorph got hit too hard. With every healer now having dispel it's very difficult to Polymorph anyone besides the healer. Even then it's very easy to interrupt, line of sight, or Shadow Word: Death. One big oversight of the change is that Mages had 30-40% haste in WotLK. With haste now being the worst DPS stat for mages, they barely ever even get to cast the spell unless it's with Improved Counterspell or Deep Freeze.
-The cooldown on Cold Snap should be reduced to 6 minutes, down from 8 minutes.
**Rogues got this same treatment for a reason. The class is too reliant on major cooldowns, and with such a strong cooldown being on such a long cooldown it's difficult to consistently have any cooldowns up.
-The cooldown on Summon Water Elemental should be reduced to 2 minutes, down from 3 minutes.
**Frost Mages have issues with some players targetting their Water Elemental in PvP. It dies pretty fast, and causes them to lose damage, control, and survivability. With such a long cooldown it's hard to get back up and running.


I'm pro for all of these changes.
Bump A Lump.

#7 ayraqt

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:43 AM

View PostTalbadar, on 09 October 2011 - 04:46 AM, said:


Warrior:
**I'm really at a loss for any good Warrior changes. I believe they are in a good spot in PvP and PvE. I'm sure there are Arms Warriors out there who wouldn't mind being able to compete with Fury in PvE once again. Probably the last route you'd take, but a small Collosus Smash buff (PvE only) to Arms through a talent would be a simple way to close the gap.

Spoiler

Rest is legit though

Edited by ayraqt, 09 October 2011 - 05:44 AM.

Posted Image

#8 brosearch

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:49 AM

good stuff. one thing i believe you missed that is absolutely essential is the complete reset of all players mmr going into s11. if they dont do that then the teams who are currently camping with their fake ratings via their fake mmr are going to be able to achieve the same result in s11.

#9 hellsong

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:57 AM

Warrior:
**I'm really at a loss for any good Warrior changes. I believe they are in a good spot in PvP and PvE. I'm sure there are Arms Warriors out there who wouldn't mind being able to compete with Fury in PvE once again. Probably the last route you'd take, but a small Collosus Smash buff (PvE only) to Arms through a talent would be a simple way to close the gap.


I'm with ayra im pretty sure you meant to say this, I think warriors need a little loving when it comes to PvP

Edited by hellsong, 09 October 2011 - 06:04 AM.

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#10 Raystigz

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:02 AM

Amazing changes, although I think the frostbolt change would effect PvE so they probably wouldn't do it lol
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#11 zephah

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:16 AM

I'm a huge fan of all of these changes and would be extremely satisfied if all of these changes were implemented.

I do think people don't realize certain aspect of the game are affected by how strong classes are, not how weak their classes are.

Warriors right now for example aren't really in a bad spot, they're just in a bad spot compared to other classes.

I do think with nerfs to the major great classes right now would really show how okay Warriors are.

Maybe they're boring to play; but hey, that's a few classes right now.

#12 Reedlol

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:23 AM

this game is fine, best its ever been actually.

#13 yusehz

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:25 AM

great dk suggestions.
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#14 himynameisamy

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:31 AM

ya

#15 kannetixx

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:54 AM

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Posted Image
US-Kel'Thuzad - Kannetix


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#16 snackbacon

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 07:02 AM

I think mages having undispellable roots would make them extremely overpowered and would make mage/lock/healer dominance even stronger. I don't support that change at all.

#17 Mirionx

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 07:41 AM

View Postsnackbacon, on 09 October 2011 - 07:02 AM, said:

I think mages having undispellable roots would make them extremely overpowered and would make mage/lock/healer dominance even stronger. I don't support that change at all.


novas are already undisspelable due to ua

#18 rob-hype

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 07:43 AM

View Postcono2156, on 09 October 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

Bring back BC please.
No I like my kick to much!

~I like the feral change idea, mages need a slight tweaking.
Hunters should already have scatter to remove dots imo its silly they dont.
Love the ideas.

Edited by rob-hype, 09 October 2011 - 07:45 AM.

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#19 cubas

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:00 AM

Yes please, sounds really good with one exception - I think you have forgotten about EU players - would be cool if all the EU bgs were merged to one.
:rogue: kidz

#20 Shaggyx

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:10 AM

So why does every class have buffs and nerfs but for rogues just flat out nerfs? I also don't see how our damage is balanced outside of find weakness, rogues do damage when they have burst with dance/coming out of vanish. Outside of that our damage isn't on par with even warriors, mages, spriests, warlocks. The proposal is good but I would atleast expect some kind of consistency damage buff.

Also how biased this is kind of shows, undispellable non dr'ing nova's? This would allow mages to freecast in a lot of situations when a rogue or warrior needs to get to him and stop a cast to save their healer, stop a gamebreaking sheep, etc. "Spam dispel my nova's so I can sit on him and stop his sheeps, X is at 20% hp if you get sheeped it's over" Then you proceed to get nova'd mage gets his cast off CS is down from locking the 70k frostbolt with on use up. This is just one of 98384092 situations where that nova deal would be in fucking sane.

Edited by Shaggyx, 09 October 2011 - 08:17 AM.





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