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What Druids need in 4.3


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#1 Ctuhlu

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 03:53 AM

The current state of druids sees two specs struggling to find viability/representation in arena play, while one spec is very strong. Obviously I'm talking about Balance and Restoration being the worse off, with Feral being really good. In my opinion, the problems facing druids right now look something like this:

Resto: Susceptibility to both swaps and being trained, lacks throughput :|
Balance: Takes too much damage due to forced face-tanking, casting is mostly useless, no kiting ability, and lack of dispel protection pigeonholes the spec into only being semi-viable in one comp (LSD2)
Feral: Instant cyclone is, like Wind Shear and Ret/Spriest defensive dispel, an outdated mechanic; it provides too much instant control that is very hard to avoid.

Now obviously, these issues must be dealt with in a way that does NOT affect PVE DPS -- which means the easiest way to fix these issues is to change spells that don't do any damage.

First on the list, is Travel Form. Having played both a Shaman and a Druid to decent ratings, I can easily say that Ghost Wolf has become far, FAR superior. Travel Form really is a joke right now (moreso for Balance than for Resto, since going back into DPS mode takes an extra GCD, and to shift roots while Travel Form'ing you need to go Moonkin->Travel->Moonkin->Travel->Moonkin). 1. Making Travel Form be unable to drop below 100% movement speed (normal walking speed -- travel form is still snareable from 140% speed to 100%) would be a great start. This gives Resto and Balance druids an escape route, allowing the possibility of gaining distance to get cyclones/heals off. This alleviates the Moonkin facetanking issue and also helps give Resto Druids a possible escape.

Secondly, Resto Druid throughput needs to be addressed. This is tough to do without affecting PVE, but Regrowth's mindboggling HoT being transferred to the direct healing component, along with a 10% healing increase to the spell, would go a long way to making Resto Druid heals matter. Without any majorly drastic changes, a better Travel form plus a better Regrowth could be a simple fix to make Resto Druids stronger without overbuffing them (which is what it seems most Resto Druids are calling for).

For moonkins specifically, some type of dispel protection is needed. Currently, one disc priest completely nullifies a Moonkin, and other healers also have an easy time keeping our damage down (LSD2 excluded). The problem with incorporating Dispel Protection into Moonfire or Insect swarm is that those casts are instant -- and instant, spammable, tabtargettable dispel protection is potentially overpowered and further pushes us into a tabdot role of mindlessness. You could make Moonfire a cast-time Immolate-like spell that offers dispel protection, but this would affect PVE by taking away the spec's mobile damage. You could make insect swarm have a cast time, but this puts yet another crucial cast into our nature school, and given the state of interrupts this would actually be a HUGE nerf. No, instead of doing any of these, Earth and Moon should offer dispel protection that lasts 15 seconds -- this encourages casting to protect dots without nerfing the spell's mechanics themselves. Wild Mushrooms could also give dispel protection through Earth and Moon, albeit on a 10 second cooldown. This would really encourage some skillful mushroom usage and would nicely add to the skill cap of the spec.

Now, what would the dispel protection be? UA and VT have their own unique effects, and so should Earth and Moon: When Earth and Moon is dispelled, the target from which it was dispelled is stunned for 3 seconds (like other DPs, this does not DR).

Meanwhile, Instant Cyclone is removed. Predatory Swiftness remains in its current state -- but like Maelstrom Weapon and Lava Burst, it simply does not effect Cyclone. Most top Feral Druids agree that the spec doesn't need Instant Cyclone, and since Feral Damage can't change for PVE reasons, this is the change that is the most feasible. In compensation, and in solving issues for Balance and Resto at the same time, Thorns now functions differently: After being struck 3 times with Thorns active, you become immune to all interrupts for 3 seconds. Only works while being trained, obviously, but gives Ferals a way to contribute a cyclone while being trained, while also solving Resto Druid trainability (at a high mana cost) and Balance shutdown, while also keeping several counters (stuns, casted CCs, and incapacitates).

None of these changes affect PVE in the slightest, and while Blizzard will never read this, I can't help but think that this is what the class needs right now. Thoughts?

Edited by Ctuhlu, 19 August 2011 - 06:52 PM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#2 kenney1111

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 04:00 AM

neat ideas thorns uptime / glyph would have to be redone but id rather just have a cd when u pred swift the clone or something

i think travel form is fine as balance just needs to remove roots, the 100% change your saying is just making more classes the same

Edited by kenney1111, 18 August 2011 - 04:01 AM.


#3 natureswill

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 04:01 AM

no changes in sight yet, doubt its going to happen at all.

Good expansion for resto druids.

#4 Ctuhlu

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 04:07 AM

View Postkenney1111, on 18 August 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:


i think travel form is fine as balance just needs to remove roots, the 100% change your saying is just making more classes the same

Possibly, but the bottom line is that right now, Travel Form is not accomplishing what it was meant to do. As a kiting mechanism it just doesn't work -- stuff like Crippling Poison, Desecration, and Infected Wounds are just instantly reapplied, making the GCD spent on Travel Form do absolutely nothing. If you're going to shift into Travel Form and do ZERO damage or healing, and increase the damage you take by up to 15%, it should at least do its job and get you some distance from the enemy.

...But right now it doesn't.

Edited by Ctuhlu, 18 August 2011 - 04:07 AM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#5 gpxdh

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 04:08 AM

One more thing increase the range of cyclone by 5yards for feral
sry for bad english.

#6 droolingmoron

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 04:26 AM

inc ferals defending instant cyclone -> it needs a cd of 20 seconds, taking it away completely is wrong

Quote

1. Making Travel Form be unable to drop below 100% movement speed (normal speed)
just no, not being able to snare people in travel form would be too op

also dont know why you are caring about moonkins, druids dont need 3 viable speccs in arenas

Quote

After being struck 3 times with Thorns active, you become immune to all interrupts for 3 seconds.
also pretty stupid if you ask me + doesnt help against casters

+


no resto buffs inc with 4.3 cause the devs dont give a fuck

i think resto druids need:
a.) ablility to shift out and in tree form during tol duration
b.) increased cyclone range to 30 (just for resto druids)
c.) regrowth heals 1,5 * the amount it heals now
d.) lifebloom base gcd decreased to 1 sec instead of 1,5 sec
e.) in tol form healing is increased by 30% just for the druid (still 15% for allies)
f.) ns cd decreased to 2 mins instead of 3
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.

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#7 lugzan123

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 07:20 AM

I like it, but not the travel form change, the thorns thing is very neat.
Removing instant clones from ferals is just stupid, besides its not like you see many ferals above 2.7k anyways. make it a 20 sec cd (at most).
Would be awesome if the thorns thing could affect team mates aswell
Ignore everything Unbelismad said (though reduce cd of NS)

have you tried posting this on wow forums

#8 efyx

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 07:31 AM

pointless thread

nice thorns suggestion though
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#9 Bailamosx

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 07:34 AM

Jordan. You have to post this stuff on the WoW forums for the developers to take notice and any chance of serious change to be implemented.

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#10 thrudgel

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 09:00 AM

View PostBailamosx, on 18 August 2011 - 07:34 AM, said:

Jordan. You have to post this stuff on the WoW forums for the developers to take notice and any chance of serious change to be implemented.
'PTR discussion' forum i believe is the place
neat thorns idea especially since the spell costs too much mana for what it provides.

#11 Ariyia

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 09:34 AM

You retarded or what?

a)Not being able to slow a druid at all, would make them totally op.
b)Thorns aura mastery is bs, would just decrease skillfloor.

Instead they should do the following:

-Make ToL a buff so you can shift in and out.
-Decrease Ns cooldown to 2min.
-Increase cyclone range up to 30yards (only available for Rdruids)
-Give us a flash heal that actually heals for something.
-Desecration should no autoapply itself instantly, so if you shift in an desceration once the slow is gone.
-The talent balance of power should not increase spell hit, but hit. (Missing bashes even from behind cause of latency really fucks you over all the time especially vs ferals&dks.

Of course I would like to see other things like redesigning the talent tree for rdruid, e.g. Fury of stormrage or nature's ward.Or making Nourish again usefull or Ht. But we all know that#s not going to happen so...

#12 Zerud

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 09:47 AM

View Postlucassoleil2, on 18 August 2011 - 04:26 AM, said:

inc ferals defending instant cyclone -> it needs a cd of 20 seconds, taking it away completely is wrong


just no, not being able to snare people in travel form would be too op

also dont know why you are caring about moonkins, druids dont need 3 viable speccs in arenas


also pretty stupid if you ask me + doesnt help against casters

+


no resto buffs inc with 4.3 cause the devs dont give a fuck

i think resto druids need:
a.) ablility to shift out and in tree form during tol duration
b.) increased cyclone range to 30 (just for resto druids)
c.) regrowth heals 1,5 * the amount it heals now
d.) lifebloom base gcd decreased to 1 sec instead of 1,5 sec
e.) in tol form healing is increased by 30% just for the druid (still 15% for allies)
f.) ns cd decreased to 2 mins instead of 3

Rdruids are the best healer in PvE. Take that in consideration. Blizzard will never straight out buff rdruids healing output in current state.

#13 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:20 AM

View Postlucassoleil2, on 18 August 2011 - 04:26 AM, said:

also dont know why you are caring about moonkins, druids dont need 3 viable speccs in arenas

Warriors 1spec
Mages 1spec
Rogues 1spec
Dks 2specs
Shamans 2specs
Paladins 1spec
Warlocks 1spec
Hunter 2specs
Priest 2specs

Yes Druids obviously need 3 viable arena specs, fix balance immediately

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 18 August 2011 - 10:22 AM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#14 Ctuhlu

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 01:08 PM

View Postlucassoleil2, on 18 August 2011 - 04:26 AM, said:



just no, not being able to snare people in travel form would be too op



I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my Travel Form change. Travel Form would still be snareable, you just couldn't be brought below 100% speed. (this is how Ghost Wolf currently works, btw)

Edited by Ctuhlu, 18 August 2011 - 01:23 PM.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#15 Timoxa

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 03:17 PM

Biased topic from balance and a bit resto player :)

Aka:
Buff my spec
Buff the other one, i played with a while ago (gimped resto)
Nerf feral, since i am not going to play in it and sitting on nerfwagon is allways easy.

#16 Cerebral

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 04:18 PM

Barkskin inner focus plx

Edited by Cerebral, 18 August 2011 - 04:18 PM.

View PostKtpearie, on 23 July 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

everything cody says is 100% fact

#17 Ctuhlu

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:28 PM

View PostTimoxa, on 18 August 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

Biased topic from balance and a bit resto player :)

Aka:
Buff my spec
Buff the other one, i played with a while ago (gimped resto)
Nerf feral, since i am not going to play in it and sitting on nerfwagon is allways easy.

It's really just:

buff the worst druid spec
buff the second worst druid spec
nerf the overpowered druid spec

But I can see how that's biased  :rolleyes:

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#18 LowDeeps

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:41 PM

Resto Druid's need something lke this:

-Better Healing output
-40 yard range range on clone in exchange for it being on a 15 second CD (glyph)
-Buffing thorns would be fun.

Edited by LowDeeps, 18 August 2011 - 10:42 PM.

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View Postdusknoir_, on 07 April 2011 - 11:23 PM, said:

I FUCKING HATE TALBADAR SO MUCH.

#19 Eloriene

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:11 PM

They just need to do something about our amazing output in PvE so we can get hots that actually tick for more than a goddamn healing stream TOTEM.

Put a maximum number of targets on rejuve (5? I realize it's already capped by duration / GCDs). Buff its output. Lifebloom is so horrible right now, buff its output or let me bloom 2 targets. And 30-35yd cyclone, reduced casting time, and/or pushback reduction for it. Wild growth has a pretty long cd for being so shitty, make it heal for more based on how many targets it's affecting.

Doing some of those would take us in the right direction. Right now druids are playable but easily replaced by a shaman that doesn't need their hand held every game. It would be pretty cool to have more than 1.5 viable healing classes.

#20 Tarukimo

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 04:01 PM

Remove feral druid instant casts, and make impact share dr with all other stuns. Screw you impact, screw you so much.




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