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[Rogue/Warlock] Lock/Rogue vs. War/Pally


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#1 gap0134

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 05:26 PM

And honestly, anything pally for that matter. We can't deal with the bubble. When we do good and force the bubble fast, we have a higher success rate against a paladin. When we CC the paladin and force the bubble that way we seem to be out of health before we can down his partner.

Any ideas on how to survive the bubble with our makeup?
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#2 gap0134

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 05:35 PM

I was reading the strats posted for our makeup on this. I may be reading this wrong (nub question inc):

Do pallys go OOC when they bubble?

Your Warlock should keep Curse of Tongues on the Paladin. He should DoT the Warrior fully while you lock him down. The Lock should use Fear to force the Paladin to Bubble/Trinket so you can then Vanish+Sap.

Depending on the situation, at this point you can switch to the Pally or stay hard on the Warrior.

You should go about 50/50 against this team. Tier 6 Pallys will make this match extremely difficult. However, the only way around them is to switch to them quickly after the bubble.


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#3 Morbent

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 08:43 PM

Best strat against them is to bring the warrior out of LoS from Pally then wait for your rogue's Kidney to fear the Paladin.. If he has trinket ready feel free to cast double fear forcing him to shield.. after shield you can either blind warr (if he trinketed) and bring down pala (do this only if both of you are >70% hp) or continue dpsing the warr waiting for the pally DR (never use the 3rd fear unless warr is under 10% and never spell lock if the warrior is over ~70%)

sry for my english anyways :P
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#4 Heelie

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 10:30 PM

Shitty comp to face. You need to force the pally bubble ASAP or you're going to die. Morbent is talking about spell lock, but I have to say if I don't run a void for mitigation and sac I get raped too fast. Drain life, especially during pally bubble. Make use of pet Sac. Try to get away and bandage or out of LoS of intercept to minimize the damage you're taking.
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#5 etherimp

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 11:39 PM

And honestly, anything pally for that matter. We can't deal with the bubble. When we do good and force the bubble fast, we have a higher success rate against a paladin. When we CC the paladin and force the bubble that way we seem to be out of health before we can down his partner.

Any ideas on how to survive the bubble with our makeup?



Rogue gets on Warrior and starts DPSing him, while you fully dot the warrior

1. Curse of Tongues Pally
2. Spell lock his first heal
3. Deathcoil his 2nd Heal
4. Blind his 3rd Heal - Pally is forced to either trinket or bubble. If he eats the Blind, start fearing him about half way thru the blind

If pally hasn't bubbled by now, his warrior is dead.. So that means, he's going to have to bubble somewhere in there..As soon as he does:

-Rogue Vanishes
-Warlock sits on Warrior Drain tanking him and making sure dots are on him at all times
-As soon as bubble drops Rogue either Gouges or Saps the Paladin (depending on whether he's in combat or not)

Once the Gouge/Sap wears off, if by some miracle Warrior is still alive, you can spell lock again and make sure you have CoT up

If Warrior goes Defensive Stance at any time, Fear him and switch temporarily to the Paladin (Esp after the bubble)
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#6 gap0134

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 11:31 PM

Wow perfect. See the problem we seem to have is getting the fears off if the Pally kites or I am stunned. But your method means that we are using instants to force the bubble. If by some crazy reason the warrior is still alive after a gouge we can at least have full reign to fear the Pally.

Thanks!

FYI - Your team is our teams freaking idle.

Edited by gap0134, 03 June 2008 - 11:41 PM.

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#7 etherimp

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 07:45 PM

Hey thanks man! That means alot.. Something I didn't think about when I wrote this post, but that MAY work.. It's untested by us, but if you run into a lot of warrior/pally teams and want to try it, let me know how it goes:

1. Charge Paladin
2. Curse of Tongues + Corruption + Siphon Life on Pally, Rogue on Pally
3. Put pet on Pally and set him to focus target so you can Spell lock
4. Rogue kicks first heal, you spell lock 2nd, he kicks third, etc.
5. Full DOTs on warrior (Amplified COA, Corruption, Siphon Life, Immolate)

6a. If Warrior is on your Rogue, blow Deathcoil and Spam Searing Pains on him.
6b. If Warrior is on your Warlock, Drain tank warrior and use Deathcoil on the Pally

7. Paladin is Forced to bubble, as soon as he does Rogue Vanishes and switches over ALL DPS to the Warrior (CS, KS, Wounding Poison)

8. As soon as Paladin's Bubble goes down, Blind, followed by Spell lock and Fear. Warrior should be dead.


Like I said, try it out and see how it works.. Basic idea is to Split DPS and put so much pressure on Pally it forces him to blow his bubble early.
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#8 Alemecia

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 08:54 PM

I have to admit cog, I like that proposal much better. I'm eager to try it, because War/Pally is always a pain if they're good. I've had warriors play the majority of the game (almost all except for swap->ragedump when the time was right) with sword and board, making cc pally burn warrior not very viable. Going straight after the pally isn't viable at all since the warrior will just go hard on the rogue.

Thanks for the strat, I'll post up on how it rolls next time I run into that comp, which isn't very often.
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#9 Viserys

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 07:40 PM

I have to admit cog, I like that proposal much better. I'm eager to try it, because War/Pally is always a pain if they're good. I've had warriors play the majority of the game (almost all except for swap->ragedump when the time was right) with sword and board, making cc pally burn warrior not very viable. Going straight after the pally isn't viable at all since the warrior will just go hard on the rogue.

Thanks for the strat, I'll post up on how it rolls next time I run into that comp, which isn't very often.


Easy combo you should never lose
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#10 etherimp

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 08:37 PM

Easy combo you should never lose


I don't understand how anybody can justify saying a healer/dps team with 2 plate wearers, 12 seconds of immunity, blessing of freedom, blessing of protection, and dispels of both poison and afflictions is an "easy combo" for Rogue/Warlock.
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#11 royalsego

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 08:48 PM

Hey, I always thought in 2v2, warlock teams are a straight counter to pally teams, no?
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#12 Viserys

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 10:05 PM

I don't understand how anybody can justify saying a healer/dps team with 2 plate wearers, 12 seconds of immunity, blessing of freedom, blessing of protection, and dispels of both poison and afflictions is an "easy combo" for Rogue/Warlock.


Perhaps your just new to arena. It's a very easy combo to beat, considering the warlock can LoS and knows how to play good arena. Dot up the warrior and the pally fully, start the drain on pally until the bubble. Then LoS the pally as to bring the warrior back to you. Chances are he will not follow you considering he should be somewhere around half health at that time. Your rogue should also be pillaring/LoS'ing the warrior and pally, which isnt hard for a rogue - Vanish, CoS, Sprint. When bubble is off, both of you concentrate on the pally while keeping dots on the warrior as well. Warlock may die but rogue can finsish off the rest. As I said, easy combo.

Sorry you don't understand.
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#13 etherimp

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 02:20 AM

Perhaps your just new to arena. It's a very easy combo to beat, considering the warlock can LoS and knows how to play good arena. Dot up the warrior and the pally fully, start the drain on pally until the bubble. Then LoS the pally as to bring the warrior back to you. Chances are he will not follow you considering he should be somewhere around half health at that time. Your rogue should also be pillaring/LoS'ing the warrior and pally, which isnt hard for a rogue - Vanish, CoS, Sprint. When bubble is off, both of you concentrate on the pally while keeping dots on the warrior as well. Warlock may die but rogue can finsish off the rest. As I said, easy combo.

Sorry you don't understand.



lol. No, I'm not new to arena.. Your strategy has quite a few holes in it, though.

For example:

-Dotting up both targets is pointless unless you lock down the Paladin. He can dispel all of your DOTS except CoA. Anything other than COA does 0 damage, and COT is probably the most beneficial.

-Locking down a Paladin is impossible if you're LOSing him and a Warrior is peeling your Rogue.

-You can't really LOS a Warrior for very long.

-Poisons and DoTs can be dispelled instantly, which means the majority of your damage is coming from the Rogue, which is not difficult to heal through for TWO CLASSES WHO WEAR PLATE and have BUBBLES and SHIELDS.

-Felhunter can't dispel Blessing of Protection if he's DEAD. Warriors destroy Felhunters instantly if you do not have a healer to keep them up.

-Voidwalker has no utility.. No Spell Lock, no devour.

-Paladin with 12 seconds of immunity, Blessing of Protection on Warrior, DOTs and Poisons being dispelled, and a Warrior going zerker on 2 Squishy classes = Dead 2dps team.

-Why the hell would a Warlock be draining a Paladin as a 2DPS setup? If you're talking about Drain life, he can simply dispel it, and you likely have mortal strike on you which means you're not getting much health even if he doesn't.. If you're talking about Drain Mana you must be retarded because you won't survive long enough to OOM the Pally. Not to mention both of them allow the Warrior to pummel you.

There are ways to beat Warrior/Paladin as Rogue/Lock. But by no means would I call it an "easy win".
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#14 Viserys

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 04:41 AM

lol. No, I'm not new to arena.. Your strategy has quite a few holes in it, though.

For example:

-Dotting up both targets is pointless unless you lock down the Paladin. He can dispel all of your DOTS except CoA. Anything other than COA does 0 damage, and COT is probably the most beneficial.

-Locking down a Paladin is impossible if you're LOSing him and a Warrior is peeling your Rogue.

-You can't really LOS a Warrior for very long.

-Poisons and DoTs can be dispelled instantly, which means the majority of your damage is coming from the Rogue, which is not difficult to heal through for TWO CLASSES WHO WEAR PLATE and have BUBBLES and SHIELDS.

-Felhunter can't dispel Blessing of Protection if he's DEAD. Warriors destroy Felhunters instantly if you do not have a healer to keep them up.

-Voidwalker has no utility.. No Spell Lock, no devour.

-Paladin with 12 seconds of immunity, Blessing of Protection on Warrior, DOTs and Poisons being dispelled, and a Warrior going zerker on 2 Squishy classes = Dead 2dps team.

-Why the hell would a Warlock be draining a Paladin as a 2DPS setup? If you're talking about Drain life, he can simply dispel it, and you likely have mortal strike on you which means you're not getting much health even if he doesn't.. If you're talking about Drain Mana you must be retarded because you won't survive long enough to OOM the Pally. Not to mention both of them allow the Warrior to pummel you.

There are ways to beat Warrior/Paladin as Rogue/Lock. But by no means would I call it an "easy win".


Your rogue must blow. Yes I mean drain life. Your rogue should be kicking/garroting. When did I say ill have a VW the entire match? In lock/rogue you should ALWAYS sac void before match then get Felhunter FOR the match. Lrn2fucken play
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#15 etherimp

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 10:42 PM

Your rogue must blow. Yes I mean drain life. Your rogue should be kicking/garroting. When did I say ill have a VW the entire match? In lock/rogue you should ALWAYS sac void before match then get Felhunter FOR the match. Lrn2fucken play


Dude, I'm normally as nice as I possibly can be to people on AJ.. but seriously, are you a fucking idiot?

WHY THE FUCK would you Drain life the PALADIN while you have a Warrior beating the shit out of you or your Rogue? How is your Rogue Kicking and Garroting going to stop the Warrior from pounding the shit out of you?

If he's on you, your Drain Life isn't going to do jack shit with MS and pummels. You'll die too fast. And if he's on your Rogue you'd be better off spamming Searing Pain to try to kill the warrior while the Pally is locked down.. Or at least force a bubble.

Secondly..

Sac void and Summon Felhunter? Good idea. I do that. That has nothing to do with the Paladin Exorcising your pet and the Warrior 3 shotting it.

So I'll spell it out for you one more time:

NO FELHUNTER. FELHUNTER GIBBED. FELHUNTER DEAD.

FelDomination? OKAY! You do that.. Then he can die instantly 2 times in a row!

You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance.

Maybe the Paladin/Warrior teams on your BG should L2FuckingPlay.

Edited by etherimp, 06 June 2008 - 10:46 PM.

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#16 Viserys

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:47 PM

Dude, I'm normally as nice as I possibly can be to people on AJ.. but seriously, are you a fucking idiot?

WHY THE FUCK would you Drain life the PALADIN while you have a Warrior beating the shit out of you or your Rogue? How is your Rogue Kicking and Garroting going to stop the Warrior from pounding the shit out of you?

If he's on you, your Drain Life isn't going to do jack shit with MS and pummels. You'll die too fast. And if he's on your Rogue you'd be better off spamming Searing Pain to try to kill the warrior while the Pally is locked down.. Or at least force a bubble.

Secondly..

Sac void and Summon Felhunter? Good idea. I do that. That has nothing to do with the Paladin Exorcising your pet and the Warrior 3 shotting it.

So I'll spell it out for you one more time:

NO FELHUNTER. FELHUNTER GIBBED. FELHUNTER DEAD.

FelDomination? OKAY! You do that.. Then he can die instantly 2 times in a row!

You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance.

Maybe the Paladin/Warrior teams on your BG should L2FuckingPlay.


Or you could get a real fucking rating on 2s and Lr2nplay your class.

kkthxbai
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#17 etherimp

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:26 PM

Or you could get a real fucking rating on 2s and Lr2nplay your class.

kkthxbai


GREAT Counter-Argument, dipshit. You really made some valid points there pause not.
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#18 viktir

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:43 PM

I'll have to agree with Cognitive, Warrior/Pally is not easy. Maybe the warrior/pally teams that you've played against just blow and play like garbage. We have to play extremely well to beat that comp. LOS warrior... what a joke, good warriors will be able to catch up to you and easily hamstring you especially with freedom up. Try to kill the warrior you say, he'll go sword board and live through your dps with shield block and spell reflects... its just agonizing

You think the warrior/pally will let you hardcast a dead felhunter? think again. Fel Domination is used for Void usually and saved as a last resort. They just have too many options against us.
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#19 Viserys

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 07:29 AM

GREAT Counter-Argument, dipshit. You really made some valid points there pause not.


This forum is called ASK A GLADIATOR. Your not a gladiator. You dont know shit.
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#20 etherimp

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 04:39 AM

This forum is called ASK A GLADIATOR. Your not a gladiator. You dont know shit.


You're*.

Grats on failing 8th Grade English, Gladiator boy.
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