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Team MMR system


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#1 Bloobungle

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 11:56 PM

I've come to notice that the new MMR system is very unrewarding for those who play with different people from day to day. I find myself grinding a team MMR from 2200 - 2350 over the course of 5 hours and will be lucky to see a 25 rating increase on my personal rating (2400+ for myself).

And the best part is that you gain absurd points once your team MMR reaches your actual MMR. Even more so when the team MMR passes it... Almost like an endless loop of awesomeness.



So here's what I'm trying to get at:
a.) You can grind every player on the servers MMR up so that you and the 'team' can advance quickly.

[Go 8 - 1 at 2400 team MMR and 8 - 1 at 2200 team MMR when you yourself are 2400 against the SAME opponents. I don't know the exact numbers that come out but I guarentee the 2400 player on the 2400 MMR team will advance about 150 points while the 2400 player on the 2200 team will only advance 20.]


b.) Or you can stop playing rateds unless you have a core 10 players online.

[Easy way to eliminate the hastle of grinding a team MMR back to your actual rating.]




But in the long run, what should you be looking for? Is it fair to say that I'd be a higher ranked player purely because I play with players that are also highly rated? I think so. I could technically grind 2200 teams all the way to 2600 just because our MMR is that high from last season (lol issues there).

So why not exclude the low MMR players and take on an elitist sort of attitude? I can go 10 - 1 in a night against the EXACT SAME opponents at different team MMRs and see a significant difference in the overall gain.



I don't expect this to change any time soon and hope we never see what happened in the previous season but, something doesn't seem right to me. I guess if you're looking to have a good time in RBGs, don't even pay attention to your personal MMR. Unless you plan on playing with the exact same crew or with a group of players that have a higher average than your own, advancing will take hundreds of games.

Edited by Bloobungle, 29 July 2011 - 12:34 AM.

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#2 Filovirus

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:05 AM

Sitting in one hour queues due to high mmr is really enjoyable too!
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#3 ss2b24

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:15 AM

stop queing rbgs >:( they aren't as fun as arena!!!!
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#4 oxhorn8728

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:17 AM

rating system overall is just bad atm... its never been good and never will be it feels like
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#5 Filovirus

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:30 AM

stop queing rbgs >:( they aren't as fun as arena!!!!


I actually enjoy rbgs a lot more than arena! Arena queues are just as bad, if not worse. Sitting in a 7~ minute queue for 2400 teams if you're above 2700 isn't enjoyable. RBGs are just really fun imo. Not saying they're balanced or even indicative of player skill, just a nice change of pace I suppose.

Edited by Filovirus, 29 July 2011 - 01:54 AM.

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#6 Tepins

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:56 AM

rating system overall is just bad atm... its never been good and never will be it feels like


looks like you and the rating system have something in common HAH
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#7 Smarba

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 06:46 PM

looks like you and the rating system have something in common HAH



ooooweeeee big thormann with the low blow
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#8 Bailamosx

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:00 PM

I've come to notice that the new MMR system is very unrewarding for those who play with different people from day to day. I find myself grinding a team MMR from 2200 - 2350 over the course of 5 hours and will be lucky to see a 25 rating increase on my personal rating (2400+ for myself).

And the best part is that you gain absurd points once your team MMR reaches your actual MMR. Even more so when the team MMR passes it... Almost like an endless loop of awesomeness.



So here's what I'm trying to get at:
a.) You can grind every player on the servers MMR up so that you and the 'team' can advance quickly.

[Go 8 - 1 at 2400 team MMR and 8 - 1 at 2200 team MMR when you yourself are 2400 against the SAME opponents. I don't know the exact numbers that come out but I guarentee the 2400 player on the 2400 MMR team will advance about 150 points while the 2400 player on the 2200 team will only advance 20.]


b.) Or you can stop playing rateds unless you have a core 10 players online.

[Easy way to eliminate the hastle of grinding a team MMR back to your actual rating.]




But in the long run, what should you be looking for? Is it fair to say that I'd be a higher ranked player purely because I play with players that are also highly rated? I think so. I could technically grind 2200 teams all the way to 2600 just because our MMR is that high from last season (lol issues there).

So why not exclude the low MMR players and take on an elitist sort of attitude? I can go 10 - 1 in a night against the EXACT SAME opponents at different team MMRs and see a significant difference in the overall gain.



I don't expect this to change any time soon and hope we never see what happened in the previous season but, something doesn't seem right to me. I guess if you're looking to have a good time in RBGs, don't even pay attention to your personal MMR. Unless you plan on playing with the exact same crew or with a group of players that have a higher average than your own, advancing will take hundreds of games.


Yeah I don't play with a core group of players all the time either and it's really frustrating grinding up rating because I do enjoy RBGs and I don't want to have to always wait on the 9 sausages. This is a pretty well written post though man and you should try posting it on the battleground forums. I'll support you. Try to draw attention to the shitty MMR system and get it changed.

Edited by Bailamosx, 29 July 2011 - 08:01 PM.

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#9 Bailamosx

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:12 PM

I actually enjoy rbgs a lot more than arena! Arena queues are just as bad, if not worse. Sitting in a 7~ minute queue for 2400 teams if you're above 2700 isn't enjoyable. RBGs are just really fun imo. Not saying they're balanced or even indicative of player skill, just a nice change of pace I suppose.


10v10 is the most balanced bracket in the game.
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#10 Axx

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:53 PM

Yeah I don't play with a core group of players all the time either and it's really frustrating grinding up rating because I do enjoy RBGs and I don't want to have to always wait on the 9 sausages. This is a pretty well written post though man and you should try posting it on the battleground forums. I'll support you. Try to draw attention to the shitty MMR system and get it changed.


I'm sorry but did you not play rBGs last season?

The team MMR is about 10million times better than personal MMR gains of last season.

If you decide to play with lower MMR people the system will eventually push you towards each others rating. It's your decision.

Eventually everyone you play with (within a reasonable amount of people) will gravitate towards the same MMR.

Problem? Nope.
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#11 Bommes

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:01 PM

As bad as it might be in your personal case, the overall MMR-system is MUCH, MUCH better than the one in S9. First of all you don't get 2,6k for free, and second of all it just fits RBGs so much better. You have to be a good TEAM now to get points, and you will get points as a TEAM as well. The solo player rating system in S9 was just stupid and made no sense (and worst of all, discouraged some players of a team to play because their MMR stayed low for no apparent reason while other ppl in the team hit 3,4k MMR for playing in the team and playing the same games).

Just try to enjoy RBG as a cool gaming experience with other ppl how it is supposed to be and try to look less on your personal rating. If you are not satisfied you just have to get a solid core of 10-15 players and don't switch setups, there is no other way. I don't think this is an issue at all, just your viewpoint is flawed because S9 was so much shit.

RBG is not supposed to be as rating based as arena is, and now the best teams (as in the best 10 players in 1 team) are on top of the bracket instead of the one player that appears to play the most games, or abuses the system the most, or just obscurely IS at the top and no one knows exactly why.
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#12 Bloobungle

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:37 PM

I agree that the s9 system had its flaws but I dont see how this is much better for the overall population of the game. Look at it from an 1800 team MMR standpoint. Do you think anyone will want to play with that group if they have a 2000 personal rating? They have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Blizzard has essentially created a 'team' system that only rewards consistent teams(or the mooches that wait for a high MMR team to form).


And I can't even stress how important it is for everyone on your team to have a high personal MMR if you want to advance.

Take for example a team that was averaging 2700 MMR last season on a weekly basis. Since the MMR system did not reset, they have started s10 at 0 like the rest of us but, the are grinding towards 2700 at 192 points a win. Nothing is preventing them from reaching 2700 by grinding the same teams you and I face (you do the same thing in arenas). The only difference as Filo pointed out would be the time that they have to wait in queue.
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#13 Bloobungle

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:57 PM

I'm sorry but did you not play rBGs last season?

The team MMR is about 10million times better than personal MMR gains of last season.

If you decide to play with lower MMR people the system will eventually push you towards each others rating. It's your decision.

Eventually everyone you play with (within a reasonable amount of people) will gravitate towards the same MMR.

Problem? Nope.



I wish I was able to look at it the same way that you do. Call me selfish if you want, but I don't go out of my way to make sure every single person I play with is succeeding and gaining points. At a certain point, I expect something in return.

Tell me who you'd invite if you had two friends at an equal skill level but one is 2400 mmr and the other is 1600 mmr. There's the problem with the system right now. Try and promote PvP when that is going on everywhere.
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#14 Ctuhlu

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:53 AM

The system is unspeakably awful :(

Showed up late to the RBG party and now I can't even get into shitty groups due to my 768 RBG rating. Has a pvp system ever been as exclusive as it is right now? It's just really, really bad.
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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


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Posted 30 July 2011 - 01:42 AM

We've brought in players at 0 mmr and they've caught up fairly close to us in about 15 wins. I really don't see the problem.

Last season you were never penalized, and sometimes even rewarded for playing with low mmr players.

When I look at the ladder this season, I actually see the best teams at the top; not myriad players who've opted to exploit the system.

I'm not trying to be overly abrasive here, you make good points, but I still feel this season is vastly superior.
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#16 Bloobungle

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 02:23 AM

It's superior, I'll give you that. I guess it's not terrible to grind 1-2 players up but picture yourself doing that every time you play. I don't have a group of 10 that log in every Wednesday at 7pm to play. They play when they can play. Eventually, I suppose half the server will be at my rating and it won't matter.

I understand that the ladders are more indicative of team skill. There's nothing to argue there. Why not just make 20 man rosters at that rate?

But try and look beyond your 15-20 man team and think about lower brackets. I see trade-chat teams refusing to invite players with an MMR of lower than 1800 because they know they risk losing 30 points because their team MMR is too low. Is that how you think people should be organizing things? That doesn't sound like a fun way to PvP
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#17 Zamerine

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 01:59 PM

That doesn't sound like a fun way to PvP


If you only want fun go in normal bg and not in RATED bg. The name itself should convince you that it's a competition and even if it can and must be fun it has to have some inconvenience to stay a competition.

Blizzard is already giving up the concept of ranked team of 10 players because it would be too hard for normal puggers to play in rbg. At least let blizz give some advantages to teams who really want to compete.

PS : Tha'ts already annoying that we don't have rank 1 awards because of this system of ranking by players...
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#18 Bailamosx

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:11 PM

We've brought in players at 0 mmr and they've caught up fairly close to us in about 15 wins. I really don't see the problem.

Last season you were never penalized, and sometimes even rewarded for playing with low mmr players.

When I look at the ladder this season, I actually see the best teams at the top; not myriad players who've opted to exploit the system.

I'm not trying to be overly abrasive here, you make good points, but I still feel this season is vastly superior.


Lawson. You should know the base MMR is 1500 not 0. That's false. I actually brought in a guy that had played Blood Legion for about 30 games or so the beginning of this season, Cirranis, and he lowered my groups MMR. If you gain MMR this season and haven't RBG'd before it's actually deflated MMR. Only the people that played during inflated MMR period last season ave the biggest advantage.

I'm not saying this system isn't better than the last season, but there is a lot more that can be done and we shouldn't satisfy our starving little puppy bodies with Blizzard's table scraps.
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Posted 30 July 2011 - 06:09 PM

Good points, all.

I, no joke, just got a fortune cookie from a Chinese restaurant that read:

"A light heart will carry you through bad battlegrounds."
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#20 Ctuhlu

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:33 AM

System is utter shit, try getting an alt into a good RBG group "sorry dude rating too low" HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU GET THE RATING UP IF YOU CAN'T GET A GROUP.

The sad thing is that you know your alt is better than all the players in their shitty group. Fucking shit game.

edit: yes, i mad

Edited by Ctuhlu, 31 July 2011 - 02:35 AM.

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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck





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