Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Final list of hunter changes


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#1 Redboww

Redboww
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 427
  • Talents: Marksmanship 2/0/2/0/0/.

Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:29 AM

I have grown sick and tired of watching hunters go unchanged throughout patch after patch, and just about everything in regards to their cataclysm design is just awful and/or broken. With that said hunters can succeed with the right comp, but we are extremely limited and poorly represented. Anyway, I am going to try and make one last list of hunter changes that are NEEDED, for the class to have any decent future. These are also not direct damage buffs, just general improvements that blizz can easily make to the hunter class. I am sure some of these have been suggested, but I think its time we actually demand a blue response, and hopefully someone will post this on official forums. These are not ranked in order of importance. Sorry for wall of text.

1. Our 4-set Bonus - http://www.wowhead.com/spell=61256, Increases the regeneration of your Focus by 5%.Well, lets see here. Hunter base focus regeneration is 4 focus per second. With the haste on my gear, I end up with around 4.2 focus per second in pvp gear, with an additional 5% bringing it up to 4.41 focus/sec. We can safely say that the set bonus provides about .2 extra focus each second, meaning it takes 5 seconds to gain 1 extra point of focus. Our cheapest damaging shot, arcane shot, costs 22 focus. At this rate it takes 110 seconds, or almost 2 minutes to get one extra arcane shot from our set bonus, which provides us with nothing else.. Arcane shot isnt exactly hard hitting, but thats not the point here. Our 4 set is complete and utter trash, and I think the warrior treatment would be fair, if our 4 set gave us the weapon chain we could actually enchant our weapon with 130 agility. Im open to other options about our 4 set, but lets be honest here, its current state is one of the worst in game.

2. Snake trap and deadly poison http://www.wowhead.com/spell=34600

Snake trap currently releases snakes that have poison spitting abilities. 3 types of poisons are released, a mind numbing poison, a crippling(50% snare), and of course, deadly poison. If they would remove deadly poison from snake trap, it would be worth it to use. Just like a lot of combat pets in game currently, snakes are buggy. Ive never been able to figure out why they always spit deadly poison on the healer, but anyway, the thing ticks for like 40 damage, and its honestly a stupid mechanic that should be changed. I think we can agree now that hunters have the most difficult time against locks and shadowpriests. Not that this is all we need, but this is a quick fix that would allow us to gain more utility, without sacrificing our only way of gaining pressure, (scatter trap). This brings me to my next point...

3. Frost trap and freezing trap sharing a cooldown

Hmm.. Lets consider that death knights have a frost trap that gets applied everytime they hit a spammable ability(necrotic), and that the same ability also is a mind numbing effect, causes damage, and even applies a healing absorption effect. While I dont think dks really need nerfs, Im not a fan of these abilities having 4 functions. Either way, as i said earlier, the only way hunter teams set up kills is through scatter trap. I am not complaining at all about how scatter trap works, and its a fine mechanic for creating pressure, BUT, I think its time these 2 stop sharing a cooldown. If we have to drop a frost trap to peel, or to help kite, we basically lose any chance of getting a kill for the next 30 seconds. We dont really have the lockdown ability to kill healers, so ccing the healer is always the way we do it. Its messed up if using some of our utility prevents us from getting a kill. Some hunters dont even take entrapment anymore because frost trap and snake trap are both virtually useless now, because they both stop you from getting a kill. If blizzard would just allow us to use some of the utility we already have, it wouldnt be so hard to fix the class.

4. Pet system

Ahh... a lot to talk about here. Hunter pets were changed in cataclysm to allow up to 5 active pets so to speak, and allowing us to change pets in combat. The way this currently works is, you cast dismiss pet which is a 2 second cast to dismiss your pet, and you can instantly call out a new one. This is fine until we get to the bugs. If you call out a new pet, it spawns with around 7k health and stays that way for a good 2-4 seconds. Someone who is fast enough(or a bladestorming warrior) will instantly one shot your pet, causing the second issue(may be a bug, if its not its just dumb). If you have a dead pet, gg. You cannot call out a new pet, because you must dismiss your old one. Ok, fine. You cannot dismiss your old one, because it is dead. Not fine. With the way the warlock pet system was changed, it appears the hunter pet system was changed to make the amount of pets similar. Warlocks have a pet they start with, can call out another one instantly 3 times with a soul shard,(4 total pets) and also have demonic rebirth, allowing a free pet rez on a 2 minute cooldown. Hunters, who are a pet class, dont have anything of the sort. In fact, death knights and mages have it better in this regard, their pets can be instantly rezzed on a 3 minute cooldown, while we dont have any method to get a pet up fast. Our pet rez is a 10 second cast, the longest in the game, and with the way blizzard has changed the pet system, it would seem that being unable to dismiss a pet due to it being dead is a bug, although im not sure. Pets give us a lot of utility and being able to change them in combat was a cool idea, it was just poorly implemented.

5. The marksman talent tree

When looking at classes like sub rogue, destro lock, affliction lock, frost mage, arms warrior, etc, the list goes on.. the marksman hunter tree is the worst I have ever seen in my life. There are so many talents that we take just to make it down the tree, or talents that are neither fun, nor provide any useful benefit at ALL. Termination, kill command refund focus shit, the early pet talents in marksman, rapid killing.. etc Blizzard came up with some cool ideas, in crouching tiger hidden chimera, and the survival deterrence reflect thing. Those were awesome ideas, I just feel like they were implemented in the wrong way. Survival is not a pvp spec anymore, and beast mastery has its place, but its weak in general. Moving these 2 talents either to early marksman, or early survival(where they belong tbh) would help hunters out in pvp greatly.

6. Master Marksman

This one should never have been RNG, and it should be like the enhancement shaman talent. It may effect pve too much, but at this point the talent is really a joke. If we have 3/4 charges on, casting a short aimed with the appropriate focus cost would be a cool way to help us burst. The all or nothing concept just has to go. Not too much else to say about this one.


Conclusion -

This game gets worse and worse as time goes on, but with a few changes like this, if blizzard would just look in depth at each class, or listen to some of our suggestions I think we can change the game for the better. Things like this go overlooked for too long, and we end up with a class that is terrible in just about every aspect, that has its own abilities bring it down(snake trap, frost trap). I loved my hunter in season 8 when i started playing it, and I think we can get back to that state if Blizzard would at least acknowledge that hunters need some help in PvP. And I think anyone that would argue this would make hunters op, is insane. These changes merely let us use our existing spells and abilities without crippling ourselves. Thats all for now, any feedback would be appreciated ^_^

TLDR, remove deadly poison, fix 4 set, changed master marksman, frost trap off cd with freezing, finish marksman talent tree, its incomplete.

#2 snackbacon

snackbacon
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 538
  • Talents: ./././././.
  • RBG: 2437

Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:55 AM

I didnt read most of it, but I agreed with 1,2,3(which is all I read)

#3 Kurum

Kurum
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 1239
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/1/2/1/1
  • RBG: 767

Posted 28 July 2011 - 02:03 AM

agree with all but 3, I think frost trap and freezing off a shared cd might be a little to strong and would cause many tears from melee.

#4 Braindeadly

Braindeadly
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Agamaggan
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 1353
  • Talents: Survival

Posted 28 July 2011 - 02:04 AM

View PostKurum, on 28 July 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

agree with all but 3, I think frost trap and freezing off a shared cd might be a little to strong and would cause many tears from melee.

or they could make our glove bonus in-line with warlocks, and reduce 5 seconds off traps instead of 2

edit: our glove bonus is as bad as our 4 set lol

warlocks went from average bonus in wotlk to god like glove/4set bonus in cata, I mean why didn't locks have 5 secs off port on gloves in wotlk where the game pace was much faster instead of cata where they also have demon armor (30%), at least before they sacrificed a fair amount of damage by using their defensive armor, and, if my memory is right the healing taken bonus was on fel armor instead, which made it pretty balanced imo... doesn't make sense to me at least

Edited by Braindeadly, 28 July 2011 - 02:07 AM.


#5 Pouncedd

Pouncedd
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1135
  • Talents: Survival 0/0/2/2/1/0
  • 2v2: 2027
  • 3v3: 2831
  • 5v5: 1534
  • RBG: 192
  • LocationOhio

Posted 28 July 2011 - 04:00 AM

Copy / Paste into the wow hunter forums ASAP! I'm doing it and every other hunter should too.


Edit: Re posted this in the hunter section on hunter forums. If enough hunters re post this and quote it I'm sure there will be a blue post somewhere. If they tell us to post it into a diff forum then do it for the sake of our class.

Edited by Pouncedd, 28 July 2011 - 04:19 AM.

Twitch.tv/pounced for my stream

#6 brosearch

brosearch
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1340
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 2269

Posted 28 July 2011 - 04:16 AM

gl hope u get some love :)

#7 acushi

acushi
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1094
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/0/2/2/1

Posted 28 July 2011 - 04:27 AM

View PostBraindeadly, on 28 July 2011 - 02:04 AM, said:

or they could make our glove bonus in-line with warlocks, and reduce 5 seconds off traps instead of 2

edit: our glove bonus is as bad as our 4 set lol

warlocks went from average bonus in wotlk to god like glove/4set bonus in cata, I mean why didn't locks have 5 secs off port on gloves in wotlk where the game pace was much faster instead of cata where they also have demon armor (30%), at least before they sacrificed a fair amount of damage by using their defensive armor, and, if my memory is right the healing taken bonus was on fel armor instead, which made it pretty balanced imo... doesn't make sense to me at least


I never understood our glove bonus.

2s off our traps, but realistically what real benefit does this provide the class with when we are tied to scatter shot to even try and get a good CC off.

Scatter shot being a 30s CD itself.  Whoopie 2s off traps!!!!

Glove bonus should wipe dots off your scatter target.  Simple, elegant solution to hunter CC.

#8 sudar

sudar
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Korgath
  • Vengeance
  • Posts: 271
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 2334
  • Locationgreenbank military base brisbane

Posted 28 July 2011 - 04:29 AM

hunters r fine h3rh3r

#9 Redboww

Redboww
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 427
  • Talents: Marksmanship 2/0/2/0/0/.

Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:52 AM

somehow i forgot to mention hunters triple dip on ranged attack speed slows, slows steady shot cast, auto shot, and focus regen because we get less steadys..

#10 Bulrug

Bulrug
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3135
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 28 July 2011 - 06:26 AM

steady/cobra shot NEED to not be effected by attack speed debuffs....

deterence needs to remove dots

camoflage should provide a fear break given our HUGE weakness against locks and fear in general
The hunter formerly known as Magecrusher <3

#11 Redboww

Redboww
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 427
  • Talents: Marksmanship 2/0/2/0/0/.

Posted 28 July 2011 - 06:30 AM

View Postjohnnybp, on 28 July 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

steady/cobra shot NEED to not be effected by attack speed debuffs....

deterence needs to remove dots

camoflage should provide a fear break given our HUGE weakness against locks and fear in general

Theres a lot of changes that could be made, in your thread you pointed out a lot of things, but if we get all of them at the same time, we would probably be OP. Camo providing fear break is nice though, as far as deterrence completely removing dots... eh.. id rather there be a glyph to make it a dispersion type thing while active, better yet id like to get the survival deterrence reflect, thats one that actually makes a lot of sense

#12 RobbieW

RobbieW
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 102
  • Talents: Marksmanship
  • RBG: 576

Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:23 AM

View PostRedboww, on 28 July 2011 - 06:30 AM, said:

we would probably be OP.

So what you are basically saying is that it is fine that we have to team up with the strongest (or the most overpowered) classes each season now just to get carried by them? And tbh nowadays you could switch out the hunter for every other class and you'd perform better.
sig2big

#13 Bulrug

Bulrug
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3135
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:32 AM

View PostRedboww, on 28 July 2011 - 06:30 AM, said:

Theres a lot of changes that could be made, in your thread you pointed out a lot of things, but if we get all of them at the same time, we would probably be OP. Camo providing fear break is nice though, as far as deterrence completely removing dots... eh.. id rather there be a glyph to make it a dispersion type thing while active, better yet id like to get the survival deterrence reflect, thats one that actually makes a lot of sense
barely any of them were damage buffs, so i doubt we would be. we would finally be on a decent, competitive level again though. It would actually make classes WANT to play with a hunter....something which hasnt happened since s5. no team is ever built around "hey, i wanna play with a hunter, they are so good, lets build a team around it"
The hunter formerly known as Magecrusher <3

#14 Zigenz

Zigenz
  • Zigenxo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 1080
  • Talents: Marksmanship
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:05 AM

View PostKurum, on 28 July 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

agree with all but 3, I think frost trap and freezing off a shared cd might be a little to strong and would cause many tears from melee.

just like desecration gets tears from, well, everything in the game?

It is a good idea, maybe give them an internal CD. Like when ones used, the other goes on a 10 or 15 second CD. Then they're both up at the same time again :)
[10:18:48] [W From] [85:Mythíc]: who sits a multiglad?
[10:18:58] [W From] [85:Mythíc]: you dont sit multi glads, you suck their balls and thank them after

#15 Ragerlis

Ragerlis
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Nemesis
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 1235
  • Talents: Marksmanship
  • RBG: 576

Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:12 AM

I'd love to find my 1 year old'ish post saying how casts for focus regen and a whole resource without support system like combo points and damage generating more rage would destroy the hunter class rofl.

Its obvious, beside bandaid fixes, the biggest problem is how poor and bad designed focus is, if you buff it, all hunters ll just spam arcane shots to oblivion with chimera on CD (aka 80 hunters with 30% passive haste) or OOF trying to cast 2 sec + steadies when not getting dead zoned.

Rework casting for focus regen = fix, the problem atm is the pressure(or the lack of it), we cant do any pressure alone, just random bursts if lucky with 2 buttons every 10 seconds.

If you cant do pressure, you ll be behind, if you re behind, full dots, chain ccs, etc ll start to happen, buffing deterrence/camo ll just prolong your games instead making a balanced one, all meta game of hunter class is about control and pressure and its impossible to do it in a scenario where you need 10 fucking seconds to get a full bar of focus against decent players.

Edited by Ragerlis, 28 July 2011 - 10:29 AM.


#16 kravnos

kravnos
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Lightning's Blade
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 987
  • Talents: Combat

Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:38 PM

weve already given them a million ideas to fix the class but all we get is dumb shit like 9 new pets jk 5 are the same pet from zuldrak....

you're wasting your time, reroll

#17 nattehfat

nattehfat
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Burning Legion
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 1327
  • Talents: Beast Mastery

Posted 28 July 2011 - 02:51 PM

Great post .... but they don't care
You've just wasted half an hour thinking / preparing / writing it

#18 Bulrug

Bulrug
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3135
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:17 PM

View PostQtpoo, on 28 July 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

weve already given them a million ideas to fix the class but all we get is dumb shit like 9 new pets jk 5 are the same pet from zuldrak....

you're wasting your time, reroll

1 step ahead of you! my mage is all geared out and feels like a wotlk hunter, extremely fun and powerful ^^

i use my hunter for pve, atleast we are good there and pretty fun
The hunter formerly known as Magecrusher <3

#19 snikkix

snikkix
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Cenarius
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 182
  • Talents: Marksmanship
  • RBG: 1504

Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:56 PM

Considering every other class with a MS effect has it passively, merging both widow venom + serpent sting would be a necessity imo.

-Scatter Shot changed into a stun effect
As mentioned before, hunter's lack the ability to keep something in place which explains why historically we have such a huge reliance on melee classes in a 3s team. The only exception to this was when HLD worked with destro, back in Wrath (Shadowfury <3) Honestly, I'd think there would be a lot less complaining about targets running out of LOS and securing the kill, if a scatter-stun was implemented.

+1000000000000....... To Camo being able to remove dots, and used while in combat, given that the cooldown's increased to a minute 30

Edited by snikkix, 28 July 2011 - 05:57 PM.

Quote

i suppose i could resort to prostitution if i'm ever desperate for money - Maldazzar

#20 Dagin

Dagin
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Lightninghoof
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 1508
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/0/2/1/0
  • RBG: 2049
  • LocationNew Orleans

Posted 28 July 2011 - 08:24 PM

View PostRobbieW, on 28 July 2011 - 09:23 AM, said:

So what you are basically saying is that it is fine that we have to team up with the strongest (or the most overpowered) classes each season now just to get carried by them? And tbh nowadays you could switch out the hunter for every other class and you'd perform better.
It's true dk warriors and now ferals hunters best friends  B)
Signature removed
"Too Big"- Nerd Vexo
Sorry guys too big
Dale
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=m-gVxKrzb4g
Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<