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Ferals OP?


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#21 kyuubí

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:45 PM

We're still no 4.1 dk stop talking out of your ass.... we still can't realistically solo any good healer.
Our kick is absolutely fucked and randomly doesn't work and has a delay due to how it's scripted. We open ONCE with 2 30 second cds and do a whopping 47k damage :o zomg if only a rogue could do that with 2 globals during an average opener.. oh wait.... and FB hits hard on clothies yeh but it costs us 60 energy ontop of the energy used to build those 5 cps say 40 per ability 2 out of 5 of those cps come from crits so 180 energy at 10 energy regen a second and it'll only hit 30k+ on clothie at full energy with tigers fury up a 30 second cd. When you start to look at the bigger picture it aint as big a problem as you think. Just put berserks duration back to how it was so we can go back to being cc'd through its entire duration.
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#22 ztkraptor

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:45 PM

I crit 50k's all the time on a target dummy with UW up + Tiger's Fury and 60 energy :)

Target dummies have resilience?
And "all the time" eh?
Do you mean 5% of the time?
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#23 wafflestew

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:50 PM

ummm sir the fact you say rogues complaining about ferals shows your ignorance. Ferals do godawful amounts of bleed and straight up damage, while rogues do great burst with shadow dance and shitty overall damage. 1 point for ferals 0 for rogues. Ferals have no control issues. Instant cyclone enemy 1, bear stun enemy 2, and a full stun on enemy 3 (get CP's prior to chain CC's ofc), and your set to run away and (possibly) get off a restealth. Although this is nothing compared to rogues CC, well it is actually since last i checked rogues cant do any better than this besides the re-stealth aspect of this. On analysis ferals do much more damage than rogues, and can do just as much CC.

CC

gouge = no feral spell
cheap shot = pounce
kidney shot = maim(forgot spell name havent played)
blind = cyclone (multiple ones)
entangling roots = oo rogues have none B)
smoke bomb = druids have none oo :lol:
bash= rogues got nothin, this gives druids three stuns.
hibernate= rogues got nothin brah.


_______________if i misseed anything on CC charts fix please.________________________
_____________________________________________________________________________________
DAMAGE
rogue:
shadow dance: 5 ambushes if done correct, usually critting for 25k tops, so 100k assuming no crits done in this.

backstab: 15k crits tops, this is your main ability to be used most of the time
hemorage: used to apply bleeds for 10% increased damage
SnD: increased melee attack speed
Evis: usually crits around 20k, 5cp, low damamge.

All in all rogue sub damage is very low in comparison to feral druids

ferals
berserk: half energy cost on everything for 15seconds.
tigers fury: increases physical damage done by 15% for 6seconds.
Ferocious Bite: Crits from anywhere between 20-30k with 5cp and shit up
rake: causes bleed damage for 9 seconds, usually tics for 5-8k
rip: causes target to take damage over time scaling with CPs, usually tics for up to 12k max usally 6-8k
Shred: Essentially backstab, but on steroids. Affects that increase bleed damage increase shred damage. Shred deals 480% wep damage + x, and usually does 15-20k
Mangle: Basically hemo, used for bleed increased damage.
Savage roar: Increases auto-attack damage done, somewhat like SnD but dmg instead of haste.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
if i missed anything and something is wrong people comment
______________________________________________________________________________________
Defensives
rogues
cloak of shadows: cant be hit by ranged attacks for the x seconds, 2min CD, shares CD with combat readiness
combat readiness: Successive attacks will deal 10% less damage per application, stacking 5 times. Lasts for 20 sec, but if 10 sec elapse without any incoming weapon strikes, this state will end. Shares cloak CD.
evasion: increases dodge chance signifigantly.
vanish: you go into an improved stealth mode for 5seconds, unbreakable by damage, then enter stealth.
sprint: you run fast wewt.
prep: resets all your shit (vanish evasion sprint smoke bomb)

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
if i missed anything leme know
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

ferals
Dash: imba sprint

frenzied regen: Increases maximum health by 30%, increases health to 30% (if below that value), and converts up to 10 rage per second into health for 20 sec. Each point of rage is converted into 0.15% of max health. 3 min cooldown. Basically last stand and enraged regen combined.

Natures Grasp: While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster they have a 100% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots. 3 charges. Lasts 45 sec. 1 min cooldown.

Barkskin: The druid's skin becomes as tough as bark. All damage taken is reduced by 20%. While protected, damaging attacks will not cause spellcasting delays. This spell is usable while stunned, frozen, incapacitated, feared or asleep. Usable in all forms. Lasts 12 sec. 1 min cooldown.

Lifebloom: Heals the target for X over 10 sec. When Lifebloom expires or is dispelled, the target is instantly healed for Y. This effect can stack up to 3 times on the same target.Lifebloom can be active only on one target at a time.

healing touch: Heals a friendly target for X to Y. Can be instant

Survival Instincts: Reduces all damage taken by 50% for 12 sec. Only useable while in Bear Form or Cat Form. 3 min cooldown. Stacks with barkskin.

Bear Mastery: Increases the damage absorbed by your Savage Defense ability by 32%. Each point of Mastery increases the absorb by an additional 4%. Requires Bear Form.

_________________________________________________________________________________________
IF I MISSED ANYTHING PLEASE LET ME KNOW. HOPE THIS INFORMS YOU PEOPLE WHO THINKS FERALS ARENT OP.

druids have more CC, damage, and survivability. If you disagree please tell why. Thanks :)
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#24 naebae

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:51 PM

Rogues have crip poison which is amazing

And ferals have infected wounds wich also reduces attack speed
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#25 Mooformqz

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:53 PM

Target dummies have resilience?
And "all the time" eh?
Do you mean 5% of the time?


Ive got about 35% crit so, about 35% of the time?

That's not the point.. on someone that has more than 3.5k resil I crit about 27k with UW + TF + 60 energy. I really don't think that it is that much.

I also play disc priest and I have more problems with warrior's / DK's than with ferals.
I can easily tank a feral for a good 20 mins without peels, Dk's still global me within 1 minute.
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#26 ztkraptor

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:55 PM

And ferals have infected wounds wich also reduces attack speed

Crip is 70%
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#27 Reirei

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:57 PM

1.) Ferals have static regen on their energy
2.) Rogues have crip poison which is amazing
3.) Rogues have insane control
4.) Rogues have a silence
5.) Rogues have SMOKE BOMB
6.) Gouge doesn't always require u to stand in front, u are welcome to glyph it.
7.) let the feral get topped, get him back into bear, its basically 2v3 then if you keep the feral in bear. He has no cc other than casted cyclone and bash.
8.) Rogues can sap out of CC and lock people down hard.
9.) you probably open first and get destroyed.


1. ok?
2. because ferals don't have it on auto :rolleyes:
3. ferals don't?
4. wtb range kick/spell lock
5. true, only reason ppl bring rogues on first place, ferals have bleeds and do shit load of sustained dmg, point?
6. and which glyph am i suppose to replace it with, there are priorities kind of
7. i think you missed the point, if i pop all my defensive CDs i will die regardless unless healer spamms heals on me like there is no tomorrow, if feral pops bear chances he will die are low
8. because cyclone doesn't do the same job

Can you write last sentence in normal english, i am foreigner and don't understand half assed sentences?

I can make exactly same list:

1. ferals have insance controll
2. ferals have insane dmg
3. ferals have insane slows
4. ferals have insane survival

Economy, reason why rogues have 70% crip is because their most dmging attacks require you to BE BEHIND THE TARGET. Given everyone runs at about same speed nowdays, GET A CLUE.
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#28 Mooformqz

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:00 PM

ferals
berserk: half energy cost on everything for 15seconds.
tigers fury: increases physical damage done by 15% for 6seconds.
Ferocious Bite: Crits from anywhere between 20-30k with 5cp and shit up
rake: causes bleed damage for 9 seconds, usually tics for 5-8k
rip: causes target to take damage over time scaling with CPs, usually tics for up to 12k max usally 6-8k
Shred: Essentially backstab, but on steroids. Affects that increase bleed damage increase shred damage. Shred deals 480% wep damage + x, and usually does 15-20k
Mangle: Basically hemo, used for bleed increased damage.
Savage roar: Increases auto-attack damage done, somewhat like SnD but dmg instead of haste.

TL;DR, read up till here.

2 Points.
Berzerk is 25 sec's when Glyphed (ridic imo)
ferocious Bite hit anywhere from 5k -> 30k. Ridic RNG. :(

Ferals do need some adjustments. I just don't think Instant Clone is the thing that has to be changed.

1. ok?
2. because ferals don't have it on auto :rolleyes:
3. ferals don't?
4. wtb range kick/spell lock
5. true, only reason ppl bring rogues on first place
6. and which glyph am i suppose to replace it with, there are priorities kind of
7. i think you missed the point, if i pop all my defensive CDs i will die regardless unless healer spamms me like there is no tomorrow, if feral pops bear chances he will die are low
8. because cyclone doesn't do the same job

Can you write last sentence in normal english, i am foreigner and don't understand half assed sentences?

I can make exactly same list:

1. ferals have insance controll
2. ferals have insane dmg
3. ferals have insane slows
4. ferals have insane survival

Economy, reason why rogues have 70% crip is because their most dmging attacks require you to BE BEHIND THE TARGET. Given everyone runs at about same speed nowdays, GET A CLUE.


Ferals don't have a ranged kick/spell lock as it doesn't work when you use it at ranged.
It doesn't interrupt then, stupid bugs.

Also, the kick ain't usable when rooted, not even if you are in melee range.
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#29 ztkraptor

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:00 PM

ummm sir the fact you say rogues complaining about ferals shows your ignorance. Ferals do godawful amounts of bleed and straight up damage, while rogues do great burst with shadow dance and shitty overall damage. 1 point for ferals 0 for rogues. Ferals have no control issues. Instant cyclone enemy 1, bear stun enemy 2, and a full stun on enemy 3 (get CP's prior to chain CC's ofc), and your set to run aw..............


Having abilities, and being able to use them, are completely opposite things.
Rogues have incredible control.
Ferals cyclone takes them out off their target, and exposes them to some seriously high damage.
Rogues have a constant self heal which regens their energy, which means more attacks
Rogues have honor among thieves, aka more combo points than they know what to do with.
Ferals damage isn't unhealabe.
Rogues BS critting for only 15k? I have 4k resil on my rogue(aka I don't stack agility) and i crit for 17-20k
Not to mention mangle buff.

Again, listing abilities is one thing, using them, and how they effect other abilities is another.
Getting a druid in bear form, means hardly any CC coming from them.

vanish: you go into an improved stealth mode for 5seconds, unbreakable by damage, then enter stealth.


Quite possibly the most amazing ability of any melee class.
You can cc a healer for a good 20s+ with this.

Again, rogues are NOT a damage class, if you wanna play a damage class play a warrior/dk something along those lines.
Rogues are a CONTROL class.
Hence Reckful - Control videos.
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#30 kyuubí

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:00 PM

what is this place mcdonalds i dont even know

We both know that's bullshit!

@Wafflestew you make it sound like we're the same class with different abilities you forget to mention you regen energy atleast twice as fast as we do and have a pretty much passive self heal which outheals rip and rake and restores energy and reducing damage you take during its uptime. You can stunlock like beasts if we used 5cps to maim at the wrong time chances are rip is gonna drop and we go back to having 0 pressure. And you say 100k damage if NOTHING crits...... during a stun duration... you're pretty much admitting that with good rng you can solo anyone in a stun.... arena aint about sustained damage it's mostly about burst so why the fuck are you guys complaining ? Atleast you aint forever that wizzards bitch :D
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#31 kyuubí

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:04 PM

shut up eu players cant talk you guys let 3 warriors in 3s on 1 team and other wack comps get 2800 the bgs on eu are full of bads / retards


I see you never broke 2.4k.... Was 4.0.6 warrior too hard?
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#32 Reirei

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:07 PM

@Moof: if i am rooted, i am usually not in any melee range of caster that i want to interrupt. You still can skull bash when slowed, i have to haul my ass to the caster to get kick off.

@Economy: you just answered your own question. Yes, rogues are controll class hence why DPS spec (ferals) should NOT have so much controll+survival.

Look at mages, yes, they have high controll and dmg, but their survival is kind of shit. Can't have everything, sry.
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#33 ztkraptor

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:12 PM

@Moof: if i am rooted, i am usually not in any melee range of caster that i want to interrupt. You still can skull bash when slowed, i have to haul my ass to the caster to get kick off.

@Economy: you just answered your own question. Yes, rogues are controll class hence why DPS spec (ferals) should NOT have so much controll+survival.

Look at mages, yes, they have high controll and dmg, but their survival is kind of shit. Can't have everything, sry.


They don't have a lot of control..lol

PS, i hear skull bash works well...LOL
its the most bugged ability in the game.(considering its 2 abilities in one)
LOL mage survival is shit..holy balls..I'm done responding to this kid.
Any class is shit when they get trained down. What mages do you play with?

I hear rogue survival is bad..amirite?
I hear ferals have redirect
I hear they have sweet energy regen
I hear they get combo points for nothing
I hear this is dumb
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#34 Reirei

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:30 PM

They don't have a lot of control..lol

PS, i hear skull bash works well...LOL
its the most bugged ability in the game.(considering its 2 abilities in one)
LOL mage survival is shit..holy balls..I'm done responding to this kid.
Any class is shit when they get trained down. What mages do you play with?

I hear rogue survival is bad..amirite?
I hear ferals have redirect
I hear they have sweet energy regen
I hear they get combo points for nothing
I hear this is dumb


skull bash is being bugged has nothing to do with the topic, i could also list shit load of abilities that do not work for rogues as they supposed to

mage survival is not that great, they are good train targets, idk what your problem is (if you gonna mention mage on my team, i started to play with him yesterday, i played RLS/RPD till now most of the time)

rogues don't have anything to mitigate dmg outside of CDs, bear form doesn't have CDs and barkskin can be popped in stun; rogues don't put up as much suistained dmg as ferals do should i remind you

i hear you can clone any target

they as who?

they as who again?

you hear a lot of stuff

I honestly don't know why it went rogue vs feral conversation, you asked why ferals were OP, i answered what i found them being so strong on arena atm. Me bringing kidney in was just an example. Could be any other CC really.
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#35 kyuubí

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:32 PM

skull bash is being bugged has nothing to do with the topic, i could also list shit load of abilities that do not work for rogues as they supposed to

mage survival is not that great, they are good train targets, idk what your problem is

roues don't have anything to mitigate dmg outside of CDs, bear form doesn't have CDs and barkskin can be popped in stun

i hear you can clone any target

they as who?

they as who again?

you hear a lot of stuff


You're right about one thing, mages at 1500 rating are very good train targets. Shame ones that know how to play can control entire teams :)
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#36 ztkraptor

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:34 PM

skull bash is being bugged has nothing to do with the topic, i could also list shit load of abilities that do not work for rogues as they supposed to

mage survival is not that great, they are good train targets, idk what your problem is

rogues don't have anything to mitigate dmg outside of CDs, bear form doesn't have CDs and barkskin can be popped in stun; roues don't put up as much suistained dmg as ferals do should i remind you

i hear you can clone any target

they as who?

they as who again?

you hear a lot of stuff

I hear you can't outrange clone..amirite?
I hear Damage reduction and self healing of rogues is bad
I hear you can't get out of combat
I hear you can't control a dps on you until you get heals..

From your statements, It is my understanding that you are just bad
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#37 Reirei

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:41 PM

You're right about one thing, mages at 1500 rating are very good train targets. Shame ones that know how to play can control entire teams :)


I faced 2.4 teams before i quit my last team, your point?

I hear you can't outrange clone..amirite?
I hear Damage reduction and self healing of rogues is bad
I hear you can't get out of combat
I hear you can't control a dps on you until you get heals..

From your statements, It is my understanding that you are just bad


1. i hear there is thing like snares and enviroment + feral mobility is not exactly bad. On top of it i am melee, what do you want me to do, sit in the corner?
2. they are all CDs though, pretty long ones on top of it and don't do much vs bleeds; 5k tick every 3 sec (1660 HPS) won't save me from death, your point?
3. would love to, but lol FF/dots
4. despite the opinion that rogues have endless CCs, we don't - all of them are on CD, many of them are on very long CD and have pos. req., melee req. and cost shit load of energy, peeling off yourself is an option but not always.. what's your point?

Calling someone bad is not exactly constructive nor makes any good argument.
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#38 ztkraptor

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:58 PM

I faced 2.4 teams before i quit my last team, your point?



1. i hear there is thing like snares and enviroment + feral mobility is not exactly bad. On top of it i am melee, what do you want me to do, sit in the corner?
2. they are all CDs though, pretty long ones on top of it and don't do much vs bleeds; 5k tick every 3 sec (1660 HPS) won't save me from death, your point?
3. would love to, but lol FF/dots
4. despite the opinion that rogues have endless CCs, we don't - all of them are on CD, many of them are on very long CD and have pos. req., melee req. and cost shit load of energy, peeling off yourself is an option but not always.. what's your point?

Calling someone bad is not exactly constructive nor makes any good argument.

I hear cycloneing bleeds is what ferals do

I think this rogue lets recoup fall off..anyone else with me on this one?

I hear rogue cooldowns on thier "cc" don't line up so that they can continuously use them..oh wait.
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#39 Mooformqz

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:59 PM

3. would love to, but lol FF/dots

Stop playing triple dps and get a healer to dispel the 3× FF with 1 dispel.
Also, you can stealth long enough to get a sap off with dots on you, wouldn't be the first time.
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#40 Reirei

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:00 PM

I hear cycloneing bleeds is what ferals do

I think this rogue lets recoup fall off..anyone else with me on this one?

I hear rogue cooldowns on thier "cc" don't line up so that they can continuously use them..oh wait.


I hear cycloning inc heals or healer himself is what ferals do

I think this priest mixed recup with penance...anyone with me on this one?

There is thing like DR, your point?

@Moof, i don't play tripple dps, the thing is not every dispell can drop all 3 stacks, on top of it FF is not always on top of dispell priority. So even if i get dispelled, i might get another magic/w/e effect off me but not FF. Dispelling FF is not always an options as well, as it is spammable and i wouldn't want healer go oom fast.

Yesterday i faced quite few feral teams, i had to cloak those FF pretty much every time to get vanish off.

The fact that spammable FF with low cost requires extra long CD to get vanish off (2 if you consider that i can't use CR after it) is kind of dumb.

I gonna stop here, to your joy. Arguing with ferals is almost as usefull as arguing with frost Dks last season. Ferals are fine, nothing to see here :rolleyes:
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