Jump to content

Photo

feeling inferior


  • Please log in to reply
230 replies to this topic

#21 Powerslave

Powerslave
  • Premium Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Emeriss
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 7,672
  • Talents: Arms 0/0/0/1/0/2/0
  • 2v2: 2032
  • 3v3: 2100
  • 5v5: 1900
  • RBG: 1797

Posted 24 July 2011 - 05:09 PM

we might be getting more benefit from weapons than some classes, but those classes get more benefit from the rest of the gear
  • 0
Timeless guide to warrior : http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#22 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3,934
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 24 July 2011 - 06:03 PM

we might be getting more benefit from weapons than some classes, but those classes get more benefit from the rest of the gear

Good point greek brother.Plus we almost exclusively scale with weapon damage since our main ability that does attack power based damage is heroic strike with a 60% coefficient.
  • 0

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...


#23 xDD

xDD
  • Lèyla
  • Junkies
  • Trollclass_name
  • EU-Kel'Thuzad
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 1,325
  • Talents: Unholy

Posted 24 July 2011 - 07:57 PM

remember s5 and s9? yeah ferals were really shit back then


Its funny cause Ferals haven't been bad since like WotLK started.
  • 0
http://www.warcraftm...p?t=3&l=xleylax

warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.


#24 xDD

xDD
  • Lèyla
  • Junkies
  • Trollclass_name
  • EU-Kel'Thuzad
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 1,325
  • Talents: Unholy

Posted 24 July 2011 - 08:01 PM

And yeah, Warrior just sucks to play these days.

Not even talking about the class currently being weak that doesnt even matter, cycles come around when classes are good and bad who cares.

The Warrior class is just terrible to play, its boring, its less and less rewarding to play compared to other classes.

I don't see why anyone would play the class over another one when they can have much more effect on a game than you can these days as a Warrior.
  • 0
http://www.warcraftm...p?t=3&l=xleylax

warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.


#25 bloodcraze

bloodcraze
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 323
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 24 July 2011 - 08:14 PM

They just keep removing things from the class. I think my favorite part about cata is dying through shield wall from 50-60% to zero.
  • 1
TSG? lol. Train a target, grip their healer in, pop gargoyle, bladestorm, spread DK aids on 2/3 targets and win- *Korlicbus*
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

#26 Darrgen

Darrgen
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 544
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 24 July 2011 - 08:19 PM

we might be getting more benefit from weapons than some classes, but those classes get more benefit from the rest of the gear

It's not nearly as much of a benefit as warriors recieve from weapon upgrades. It's always like that. Warriors usually start out pretty weak at the beginning of season then they become much better when weapons are obtained. In fact i hated playing my warr for the 2 weeks I had to wait for t1 s8 and even t1 to t2 was a huge difference.
  • 0

#27 nikeyla

nikeyla
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 58
  • Talents: Discipline 0/2/1/1/2/2
  • RBG: 2104

Posted 24 July 2011 - 09:31 PM

It's true about t2 wpns, but until feral will be able to replace any other melee and be even better, this state will remain.
  • 0
Posted Image

#28 quikkz

quikkz
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Lightning's Blade
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 631
  • Talents: ./././././.
  • RBG: 2459

Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:10 PM

ferals are headed for a nerf Posted Image
  • 0
Posted Image

#29 Jacklin

Jacklin
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 526
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/0

Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:39 PM

It's not just the damage. I play this class since Vanilla, and it has hardly changed in terms of design and philosophy behind the scenes.

You do good damage, always have. Not necessarily the best DMG dealer, but the damage has always been good. And that's it. It has always been like this, as well. A warrior player is easily controlled, even the best warriors have a hard time making as big of a dent on the way a game is played out as other classes like lock, druid, mage /etc./ do. The simple fact is, warriors cannot dictate the game. All warrior abilities are DESIGNED /not necessarily with this idea in mind/ to be a follower of the enemy, not a dictator of game pace.

I know it may sound a tad weird, but think about it: when was the last time you dictated anything in an arena game? All you do, including switches are mostly dictated by other classes. Now I'm not saying we are the only class that has to go through this, but I certainly never thought another class is as dependant on the enemy as we are.
  • 0
I haven't failed. I've found 10,000 ways that don't work.

#30 Cyanne

Cyanne
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Neptulon
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 351
  • Talents: Assassination
  • RBG: 768

Posted 24 July 2011 - 10:50 PM

It's not nearly as much of a benefit as warriors recieve from weapon upgrades. It's always like that. Warriors usually start out pretty weak at the beginning of season then they become much better when weapons are obtained. In fact i hated playing my warr for the 2 weeks I had to wait for t1 s8 and even t1 to t2 was a huge difference.


Sorry but i just don't see it. Until cata wars scaled great with weapons because it also had an effect on their rage intake: batter wep = more dmg = more rage = more attacks with you new shinny wep = even more dmg. So you didn't just hit harder with a new wep, you used to hit harder and more often. In cata you just hit harder.

When you take a look at rogues for ex not only they hit harder with better weps (a lot harder actually due to the big % modifier on their attacks) but they also get 30% more agi from the new gear. If you only look at that it's huge scaling right there.

And then we have ferals with even bigger % modifiers on their attacks and rets with most of their dmg scaling of wep dmg too (and having a 20% more dmg "passive" and a 351% wep dmg attack). I'm just gonna skip dks / enh shammys since i don't have any clue how they scale with better weps :)

Until somebody decides to throw some math in and prove this entire "wars scale like crazy" myth i think it's rather safe to asume war scaling is somewhere in the middle of the pack nowadays.
  • 0

#31 Powerslave

Powerslave
  • Premium Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Emeriss
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 7,672
  • Talents: Arms 0/0/0/1/0/2/0
  • 2v2: 2032
  • 3v3: 2100
  • 5v5: 1900
  • RBG: 1797

Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:03 AM

It's not nearly as much of a benefit as warriors recieve from weapon upgrades. It's always like that. Warriors usually start out pretty weak at the beginning of season then they become much better when weapons are obtained. In fact i hated playing my warr for the 2 weeks I had to wait for t1 s8 and even t1 to t2 was a huge difference.

I see, so you're implying that warriors scale better than others with every tier of gear?
  • 0
Timeless guide to warrior : http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#32 Zeriel

Zeriel
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Moon Guard
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 3,548
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 25 July 2011 - 09:18 AM

Generally speaking, I just don't see the scaling argument at all considering I do less damage with my 378 weapon than other classes do with their 359s. This is the same difference between 378 and 391. I think it's fair to say that we got nerfed (mostly) because of PVE and we're going to be second to last (hi hunters) until they decide warriors aren't good in PVE again.

Here's another hilarious anecdote: I overpower crit DKs with that aforementioned 378 weapon for 5K. Rogues in 372s/359s backstab crit me for 10-14k.

Edited by Zeriel, 25 July 2011 - 10:12 AM.

  • 0

#33 Powerslave

Powerslave
  • Premium Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Emeriss
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 7,672
  • Talents: Arms 0/0/0/1/0/2/0
  • 2v2: 2032
  • 3v3: 2100
  • 5v5: 1900
  • RBG: 1797

Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:14 AM

Generally speaking, I just don't see the scaling argument at all considering I do less damage with my 378 weapon than other classes do with their 359s. This is the same difference between 378 and 391. I think it's fair to say that we got nerfed (mostly) because of PVE and we're going to be second to last (hi hunters) until they decide warriors aren't good in PVE again.


we did get nerfed because of pve but look at what really created the problem

1) warrior damage gets buffed somewhere in 4.06(2hand weapon specialization) and is on par with other classes in pve
2) mortal strike refreshes rend (and ticks it when it hits) which makes warriors too good in pve because of the extra slams
3) cs gets nerfed to help less in pvp than in pve ( and with the way armor works, because bosses have lower armor than players, this is a way bigger nerf than advertised)
4) warrior overall damage gets nerfed because of pve(to compensate for the rend buff) but cs nerf somehow manages to stay

I wasn't playing the last months, did the cs nerf hit before the end of s9 ?
  • 0
Timeless guide to warrior : http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#34 Zeriel

Zeriel
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Moon Guard
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 3,548
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:17 AM

Yeah, it did, but warriors were still sort of viable because we got to play with Frost DKs (whose damage, by the way, still hasn't been nerfed significantly). The flat 8% (5% for fury, which actually comes to a 50% cut to the damage bonus) nerf was the final nail in the coffin. It came with 4.2.

At this point I'm just playing the game because raids are still fun.

Edited by Zeriel, 25 July 2011 - 10:18 AM.

  • 0

#35 Dante

Dante
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Dunemaul
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 3,266
  • Talents: Arms
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationSarajevo

Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:21 AM

50% colo smash and 20% 2hand wep specialization was fine, ontop of deadly calm+reck made us retarded, denying it makes anyone delusional. The 8% nerf to dmg wasn't necessary, they should simply buff colo smash again to compensate and warrior dmg will be more then fine (70% would be fine as rogue's expose weakness is 70%).
  • 0

#36 Barburas

Barburas
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 2,317
  • Talents: ./././././.
  • RBG: 2586

Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:26 AM

Honestly I think increasing CS in PvP a bit (not anywhere near back to 100%, but some increase) would help a fair bit. Killing high armour targets is just awful right now as a warrior, and colossus smash was the design route they went (rather than bleeds) for us to be able to actually do damage vs high armour classes. At the same time it wouldn't increase our damage as much vs lower armour targets where I don't honestly feel our damage is too bad.

I mean, afaik most of the damage nerfs were largely based off PvE, but PvE and PvP were already quite different due to CS being at 50% in PvP and 100% in PvE.

So it seems to me if we're too good in PvE and too weak in PvP: either nerf general damage but buff colossus smash in PvP, or don't touch general damage but nerf colossus smash in PvE.

Edited by Barburas, 25 July 2011 - 02:32 PM.

  • 2

#37 Powerslave

Powerslave
  • Premium Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Emeriss
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 7,672
  • Talents: Arms 0/0/0/1/0/2/0
  • 2v2: 2032
  • 3v3: 2100
  • 5v5: 1900
  • RBG: 1797

Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:33 AM

50% colo smash and 20% 2hand wep specialization was fine, ontop of deadly calm+reck made us retarded, denying it makes anyone delusional. The 8% nerf to dmg wasn't necessary, they should simply buff colo smash again to compensate and warrior dmg will be more then fine (70% would be fine as rogue's expose weakness is 70%).


it wasn't fine, with the current distribution of warrior damage CS cannot be 50%, unless the game goes back to pre normalization levels

the damage on plate looks like healer damage for me (but im shit geared)
  • 0
Timeless guide to warrior : http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#38 Dante

Dante
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Dunemaul
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 3,266
  • Talents: Arms
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationSarajevo

Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:41 AM

it wasn't fine, with the current distribution of warrior damage CS cannot be 50%, unless the game goes back to pre normalization levels

the damage on plate looks like healer damage for me (but im shit geared)


I am saying 50% colo smash with the 20% 2hand spec was fine, at least for me, I could crit DKs/warriors for 23k top easily and 19k on holy paladins and resto shamans.

BUT now with the 8% nerf to all 2hand dmg, it's just too shit on high armored targets. 8% sounds low, but it's felt quite well.

Still dmg on low armor is really good, so the nerf to 8% sounds reasonable but made us suffer on high armored targets, so a buff to colo smash would be most logical.
  • 0

#39 droolingmoron

droolingmoron
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 1,037
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 July 2011 - 02:02 PM

why do you all want buffed dmg? i just want some utility back, like 10 sec spellreflection and the old intercept/charge system. with the exception that if you used intercept you can't use heroic leap till intercept is back up again and heroic leap puts intercept on its cooldown.

i want to contribute more in a game
  • 1
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.

L.W.

#40 Xonkk

Xonkk
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Ysera
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 2,755
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 July 2011 - 03:47 PM

why do you all want buffed dmg? i just want some utility back, like 10 sec spellreflection and the old intercept/charge system. with the exception that if you used intercept you can't use heroic leap till intercept is back up again and heroic leap puts intercept on its cooldown.

i want to contribute more in a game

^

I haven't had much time to do arena outside of 2v2 this season but my damage doesn't really feel that nerfed. The only targets that don't really take damage are holy paladins, which, surprise, have always been tough targets to kill for warriors. I think damage will be more than fine once t2 weapons come into the picture.

As far as feeling inferior, I wish SR was back to 10 seconds, at least then we could actually have some hope against casters. Reflect is good, don't get me wrong, I just wish I could use it more and/or not have to glyph it and give up a 12 second charge. The HL intercept idea is a good one, but I don't really think you can count on it coming back. They seem to want to have warriors stick with one stance depending on your spec. Arms is battle, fury is berserker, prot is d-stance
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<