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Frost DW V Frost2h/UH


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#21 Stayce

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 05:55 PM

I mean i have always outdamaged any other frost do by a good amount, dont see why dw isnt good if the damage difference is significantly different..And my team doesnt want me to tank so thats out of the question >.> People always compliment me having the most damage they have seen in the majority of dks so..i dunno ;/.and when you say dual wields ramp up time, exactly what do you mean by that? O_o?
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#22 Brownlol

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 07:25 PM

Assuming hes talking about waiting for max RP and trinkets/PoF, but it doesn't take that long.
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[08:33:45] [B] [80:Locksinloads-Kael'thas:3]: resilience ruined pvp

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#23 Papajonpizza

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 09:17 PM

in RBGs with the apparatus activated, you don't even care about RP. you just faceroll and full HB in the middle of the fight

I used to do the same damage my other FDK did, and now he is clearly ahead. for example, just finished a EotS where I did 3M and he did 4M :(

Edited by Papajonpizza, 24 July 2011 - 09:18 PM.

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#24 Stayce

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 09:18 PM

Whatever works, do it../shrug
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#25 Aliandren

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:49 AM

I mean i have always outdamaged any other frost do by a good amount, dont see why dw isnt good if the damage difference is significantly different..And my team doesnt want me to tank so thats out of the question >.> People always compliment me having the most damage they have seen in the majority of dks so..i dunno ;/.and when you say dual wields ramp up time, exactly what do you mean by that? O_o?


lining up the 5 stacks on trinket and weapon proc, getting the other weapon to proc. It's not terrible i'm sure, but I can see it being frustrating on flag return duty.
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#26 Ragelog

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 02:54 PM

Anyone have solid numbers on a percentage difference of damage between DW and 2 hander?
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#27 Ferri

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 03:02 PM

I don't think total damage output is that much higher as dual wield, it's just more bursty due to more random killing machine procs.
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Dunsparrow:"One time when I went to Icy Touch a warrior through a pillar from 50 yards away, he spell reflected it for 6k.

Spell Reflect is bullshit."

#28 Ragelog

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 03:18 PM

Im really struggling with what to make my dk it will likely mainly be an RBG toon. DW seems to get ride of any options its pretty much HB 4x 2x NS FS Killing procs. At times especially when on a healer it feels like NS spam is still useful but due to less RP it seems you can really afford to do that. I am also concerned they may nerf the DW procs or something.
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#29 Aliandren

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:58 PM

this won't be a make or break thing but its also annoying to have to spend 3k more points b/c they don't itemize for dw frost.
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#30 Ragelog

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 07:25 PM

this won't be a make or break thing but its also annoying to have to spend 3k more points b/c they don't itemize for dw frost.


Yeah...I'm leaning 2 hander due to this to gear up faster since it's an alt then later in the season getting a T2 DW set. However if it's like 20% more damage then I feel I have to go DW.

Edited by Ragelog, 25 July 2011 - 07:25 PM.

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#31 Aliandren

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 08:42 PM

would be interesting to see some recount records of just straight target dummy damage so you can get a feel for the actual difference. I'm going to grind out a 2h and dual wield from t1 honor to test against each other before making a decision.
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#32 Kryye

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:18 AM

would be interesting to see some recount records of just straight target dummy damage so you can get a feel for the actual difference. I'm going to grind out a 2h and dual wield from t1 honor to test against each other before making a decision.


Note: The reason the dps is so low is because I stopped attacking and frost fever keeps ticking.

http://i73.photobuck...omas/DWVS2H.png

2:20 DPS tests with T1 weapons, started off with pillar/trinket and ended with pillar/trinket. I prioritized HB for DW and NS for 2H, and used every death rune on the respective ability. I prioritized KM FS > rune attacks > FS.

DW did 207K more damage. My necrotic strike absorbs 8500. 8500 times the 24 extra necrotic strikes as 2H equals 204K absorb. Pillar/Trinket NS absorbs 12K, though I'm not sure how many I used during the cooldown period(Should have looked at the absorb total at the end). It looks like single target pressure is roughly the same, it just depends on whether you want to do actual damage or put up an absorb that slows casting speed. One thing to consider though, every howling blast does aoe damage if multiple targets are present, which leads to silly things like consistently doubling everybody else's damage(at least at lower ratings, I haven't played my DK past 2200):

http://i73.photobuck...eThomas/DW2.png

http://i73.photobuck...Thomas/DW-5.png

http://i73.photobuck...eThomas/DW6.png

http://i73.photobuck...eThomas/DW7.png

EDIT: DW is also stupid burst with KM procs back to back five times in a row all over the place. And HB can't be dodged, blocked, or parried.

Edited by Kryye, 26 July 2011 - 03:01 AM.

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Official Blizzard Quote:

Even the amount that PVP can alter the PVE game in WoW is unacceptable to us. Whenever we run into a case of 'this would be really awesome for PVE' but then the PVP guy says 'that kind of screws us in PVP' the answer is always 'SHUT UP PVP GUY, it's awesome in PVE so that's what we're doing!'

#33 Papajonpizza

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:21 AM

I like having lots of AoE damage in my comp, playing Lock/FDK/Sham, and I think DW might actually be a lot better :) will try it on wednesday when I get r1s!
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#34 Ferri

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:59 AM

So.... how exactly do you do more aoe damage DWing again?
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Dunsparrow:"One time when I went to Icy Touch a warrior through a pillar from 50 yards away, he spell reflected it for 6k.

Spell Reflect is bullshit."

#35 Kryye

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:20 AM

You use your death runes on howling blast instead of necrotic strike.

EDIT: More specifically, you have to use your runes on howling blast because you don't have the 2H talent that gives runic power on auto attacks. You have to use howling blast because it gives 20 RP compared to necrotic strike's 10 RP. Razorice causes HB and FS to hit 10% harder, whereas Might of the Frozen Waste only increases melee attacks by 10%. Also, the physical portion of necrotic strike doesn't hit as hard because it doesn't hit with the offhand weapon.

Edited by Kryye, 26 July 2011 - 04:35 AM.

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Official Blizzard Quote:

Even the amount that PVP can alter the PVE game in WoW is unacceptable to us. Whenever we run into a case of 'this would be really awesome for PVE' but then the PVP guy says 'that kind of screws us in PVP' the answer is always 'SHUT UP PVP GUY, it's awesome in PVE so that's what we're doing!'

#36 Ferri

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 01:54 PM

I asked why DW does more aoe dmg than 2H, there is nothing preventing 2H users from using Howling blast with death runes if they want to maximize aoe damage. 2H weapon also gives you more str compared to 2 1Handers, allows you to put 3 points into Bladed Armor, which means more attack power and higher Howling Blast damage.

So again, why do people keep saying DW does more AOE damage, when 2H is actually the one that does more aoe damage? B)
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Dunsparrow:"One time when I went to Icy Touch a warrior through a pillar from 50 yards away, he spell reflected it for 6k.

Spell Reflect is bullshit."

#37 Ragelog

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:11 PM

I asked why DW does more aoe dmg than 2H, there is nothing preventing 2H users from using Howling blast with death runes if they want to maximize aoe damage. 2H weapon also gives you more str compared to 2 1Handers, allows you to put 3 points into Bladed Armor, which means more attack power and higher Howling Blast damage.

So again, why do people keep saying DW does more AOE damage, when 2H is actually the one that does more aoe damage? B)


What's preventing DW from going 3/3 bladed armor? What I take from things is during those 5 seconds of a full stun if things align well with procs DW can probably put out around 10k maybe more single target damage then 2H on a full resil target. Mainly due to DW Crit Frost Strikes hitting for more. Overall damage is very similar but DW has the opportunity to have more burst. However seems to have less options in play style as with less RP you can't really afford to put up 4 necro's as you won't be able to maintain the same pressure if you do as 2H since you won't be able to spam frost strikes if you unload your death runes on necro's. I'm still undecided on what to get.
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#38 Ferri

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:20 PM

Sure you can get 3/3 Blade armor at the cost of other important talents, personal preference.
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Dunsparrow:"One time when I went to Icy Touch a warrior through a pillar from 50 yards away, he spell reflected it for 6k.

Spell Reflect is bullshit."

#39 Ragelog

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:21 PM

Which? I run a 3/31/7 DW spec only thing I don't have is the improved obliterate.
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#40 Ferri

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:30 PM

ah yea, i guess obliterate is not as important here.
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Dunsparrow:"One time when I went to Icy Touch a warrior through a pillar from 50 yards away, he spell reflected it for 6k.

Spell Reflect is bullshit."




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