Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Could MMR benefit from a cap


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 inhume

inhume
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 1055
  • Talents: Combat

Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:09 PM

The entire point of the original MMR system was to separate the higher level players from the lower level players but it's ended up at a point where the very best players end up not being able to queue due to ridiculous queue times from no other high end teams queuing. it also results in the system being abused due to blizzard not completely punishing players for playing with their lower end friends.

the idea that i propose is to cap MMR at 2750 or so, blizzard can come up with the number on their own. i chose 2750 because that's the ideal range for gladiator for most battlegroups. it would be very hard for most teams to gain this cap with any number of players but if they do manage to obtain this cap, they would still be able to queue into most teams to gain team rating. as you would get closer to the cap, wins and losses would start to be the same amount of points in terms of team rating. i feel this would make for the best teams to rise to the top and would prevent teams from camping early in the season.

#2 Pawzz

Pawzz
  • Content Editors
  • Curse Premium
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 2438
  • Talents: Beast Mastery
  • LocationAustria

Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:15 PM

Could actually be a good idea.

They should also make mmr rise faster, for example if you have an alt, new gear and you play 10-10 the first weeks. You have a 1600 mmr or something and its nearly impossible to ever get to 2.4k, even after 20-0 you only rise like 50 rating or something.

Make MMR rise pretty fast untill you are at 2k, and grow a lot slower after that.
You have to have almost perfect win/lose ratio to get to 2750.
Thats pretty similar to now, but I think the whole system is way to inflated. And since they never reset MMR its going to inflate more and more.

Edited by Pawzz, 21 July 2011 - 05:19 PM.


#3 bayre

bayre
  • Junkies
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 98
  • Talents: Feral 2/0/2/1/2/2
  • RBG: 1951

Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:22 PM

if you consider the point where arena was first introduced into the game, the skill difference between a top player and a bad player not that large (relatively) then as the game progressed people practised etc the skill cap became wider a 2k player having been quite high in say season 1 had the equivalent skill of a 2k player now, because of this progression the skill between a player who just steps into the arena say 1500 and a top player say 3100 will keep spreading. obviously there is a number of other factors that have lead to mmr inflation.

so by implementing a mmr cap what u would find a a whole load of teams say those between 2800 and 3200 now (about 75 teams on bg 9 for example) would end up at the mmr cap. from this you would then have every1 farming teams up to 2750. then after 2750 when the team rating over takes the mmr you have teams start recieving very small increased to team rating on wins and big losses. so what this results in is the top 0.5% of teams all being within say 20-30 rating of each other at around 2800, which results in a whole bunch of title shares

#4 Seekay

Seekay
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Turalyon
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 645
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:24 PM

How about they just go back to the BC system

#5 Tristràn

Tristràn
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 211
  • Talents: Restoration 2/1/2/1/2/0

Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:34 PM

View PostSeekay, on 21 July 2011 - 05:24 PM, said:

How about they just go back to the BC system

you mean that system where you could invite your shit mate to team and play 100 games after that invite good player and play team rate to high and every1 in the team gets glad?
or
Personal rating BC system:)?

Edited by Tristràn, 21 July 2011 - 05:36 PM.


#6 Seekay

Seekay
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Turalyon
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 645
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:40 PM

When personal rating was introduced.

#7 ady

ady
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 543
  • Talents: Shadow
  • RBG: 2328

Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:42 PM

the only problem i see with mmr capping is that currently if you get to the 2750 mmr cap and your team is 2800, you lose alot more for losses and you gain less for wins
Posted Image

#8 inhume

inhume
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 1055
  • Talents: Combat

Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:17 PM

for all we know, most of the teams between the 2800-3200 range on a lot of battlegroups are unintentionally beating teams that are MMR exploiting. it's not their fault but it happens. they could have also unintentionally abused the system before when they would swap teams a lot to find better players.

as for the wins or losses, in terms of team rating, above the cap, i would make them be based on the opposing team's MMR. teams between like 2650-2750 would give the same amount of points for a win as a loss. so if you trade a series, it's not a completely bad thing because you both are high level players.  Blizzard could setup groupings for each level of player. 2649-2450 would take more points than they would give. it would keep progressing down as well.


mmr should be a basis for what kind of players you queue into, not what you're team rating is going to be.

#9 ady

ady
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 543
  • Talents: Shadow
  • RBG: 2328

Posted 22 July 2011 - 05:23 AM

it would be kinda cool if you could see what teams are Qing at what mmr

except people would use that to dodge any good teams just to sit in 10 minute Qs

like a chart to show how many people are Qing at 3000-2700 mmr and so on
Posted Image

#10 Mik._.

Mik._.
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 535
  • Talents: Subtlety 2/2/2/1/0/2
  • LocationAUS

Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:45 PM

the system is so retarded i dont understand why it hasnt been completely overhauled after the season 9 shenanigans


#11 Durial

Durial
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Talnivarr
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 885
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationEngland, London

Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:50 PM

Capping MMR would make sense. Here's my opinion on how it should be:

MMR cap is set to 2800. This means, when people reach 2800 they can no longer gain MMR. Instead, they only gain person and team rating. Everyones hidden rating would be set back to 1500 on the same day the new cap is set.

Each win OR loss over 2800 would be either +10 or -10 points, this way, win to lose ratio really would come into play.
Also, the only people who would be up on this level, would be the well known good players

Feel free to flame

#12 ady

ady
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 543
  • Talents: Shadow
  • RBG: 2328

Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:09 PM

View PostDurial, on 22 July 2011 - 06:50 PM, said:

Capping MMR would make sense. Here's my opinion on how it should be:

MMR cap is set to 2800. This means, when people reach 2800 they can no longer gain MMR. Instead, they only gain person and team rating. Everyones hidden rating would be set back to 1500 on the same day the new cap is set.

Each win OR loss over 2800 would be either +10 or -10 points, this way, win to lose ratio really would come into play.
Also, the only people who would be up on this level, would be the well known good players

Feel free to flame

would your mmr get kinda stuck at 2800 once you get it? because if you hit 2800 then lose you technically shouldnt be 2800 mmr anymore

and if you win your mmr wouldnt go up so after every loss that system wouldnt really work?
Posted Image

#13 Bobrosslol

Bobrosslol
  • Bigmoran
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 455
  • Talents: Restoration
  • RBG: 576

Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:26 PM

i think this would create a clusterfuck of teams at or around the mmr cap...which may or may not be a good thing

"Faetal is probably the best lock I've ever seen."

-Nobody


#14 Durial

Durial
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Talnivarr
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 885
  • Talents:
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationEngland, London

Posted 22 July 2011 - 07:40 PM

View Postady, on 22 July 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

would your mmr get kinda stuck at 2800 once you get it? because if you hit 2800 then lose you technically shouldnt be 2800 mmr anymore

and if you win your mmr wouldnt go up so after every loss that system wouldnt really work?

There would be a cluster of teams at 2800 I guess. Yeah, it would get 'stuck', but everyone would be on a Gladiator(+) rating. So technically everyone would be on a similar skill level.

After you get 2800 Team rating, you start to gain +10 for a win, -10 for a lose. This would put the teams with higher win % at higher rating than others. Bringing win % back into fashion and give it a meaning.

If your win % is higher than others, past 2800, you're going to be the higher rated. :o

#15 ady

ady
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 543
  • Talents: Shadow
  • RBG: 2328

Posted 23 July 2011 - 05:32 AM

View PostDurial, on 22 July 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

There would be a cluster of teams at 2800 I guess. Yeah, it would get 'stuck', but everyone would be on a Gladiator(+) rating. So technically everyone would be on a similar skill level.

After you get 2800 Team rating, you start to gain +10 for a win, -10 for a lose. This would put the teams with higher win % at higher rating than others. Bringing win % back into fashion and give it a meaning.

If your win % is higher than others, past 2800, you're going to be the higher rated. :o


well, if you hit 2800 and you win, you should have a hidden rating that is how many wins you have past 2800

so if you get 2800 then you in 5 games, you have 5 wins on your side and be at 2850 team and still 2800, but if you then lose 5 games, the 5 games comes from your win so you wont lose mmr

so if you win 6 then lose 5 you have have positive win and you wouldnt lose mmr but team rating would still change, then if you lose 2 more games then your mmr would go below 2800

and, would be too easy to team share unless they prevented it somehow, win 10 games and have everyone stop at 2900  B)
Posted Image

#16 Vraik

Vraik
  • Members
  • Posts: 88

Posted 23 July 2011 - 11:49 AM

View Postady, on 21 July 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

the only problem i see with mmr capping is that currently if you get to the 2750 mmr cap and your team is 2800, you lose alot more for losses and you gain less for wins
Thats the point of the cap so the bg dosnt get inflated and you have to go like 100-10 to get 100 rating from 2800-2900, would make stuff a lot more interesting.

#17 mezu

mezu
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 38
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 23 July 2011 - 04:01 PM

You would have to have diminishing returns on points gained or some limiting function with those systems.  If you get +10, -10 for any w/l (@ 2800mmr) then a team with any positive ratio will go up in rating continuously.  It would turn the brackets into a massive grind fest.

#18 Ktpearie

Ktpearie
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Lightbringer
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 2201
  • Talents: Holy 0/2/1/1/2/0
  • 2v2: 1542
  • 3v3: 1044
  • Location"\_( シ)_/"

Posted 23 July 2011 - 07:26 PM

too many negatives and irritants for it to have a cap.  There is a solution but this isn't it.
"\_( シ)_/"

#19 ady

ady
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 543
  • Talents: Shadow
  • RBG: 2328

Posted 23 July 2011 - 10:31 PM

View Postmezu, on 23 July 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

You would have to have diminishing returns on points gained or some limiting function with those systems.  If you get +10, -10 for any w/l (@ 2800mmr) then a team with any positive ratio will go up in rating continuously.  It would turn the brackets into a massive grind fest.

? except you would (hopefully) be facing other 2800 teams so your win/loss would actually matter
Posted Image

#20 Voksen

Voksen
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Magtheridon
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 877
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:56 AM

TLDR for you ADD fucks:

In the current ladder system, MMR should self-cap by itself.

Spoiler

So nothing to worry about, the system has a ceiling/floor basically already built-in by its very design.  Any artificial cap (e.g. 3000) would defeat the whole purpose of a relative ranking system.

+rep if this helped.

Edited by Voksen, 01 March 2012 - 12:58 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<