Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Current state of dks


  • Please log in to reply
118 replies to this topic

#81 GLopez

GLopez
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 8870
  • Talents: Unholy 0/1/2/2/0/2

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:40 PM

Even then, the point is that if they can do it to the death knight, they could probably do it to every other class. I think the only class that can really compare in regards to anti-Smoke Bomb defenses is mage.

But yeah, it's usually a good idea to save the trinket for the Smoke Bomb that involves Garrote.

#82 Primius

Primius
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 330
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/0/2/0/0/1
  • 2v2: 2039
  • 3v3: 2519
  • 5v5: 1150
  • RBG: 959

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:44 PM

View PostGLopez, on 14 July 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

I think I made the strategy pretty clear, but I'll repeat it:

First Smoke Bomb: Trinket + AMS.

Second Smoke Bomb: IBF + AMZ.

I'm not kidding about never dying in Smoke Bombs. I honestly don't understand how so many death knights seem to struggle against staying alive in them. Out of every melee and possibly all classes in general, we have the best tools just because we have two consistent outs for the stuns in the smoke Bomb, which is something no other class can claim.

The only way I could die in a Smoke Bomb is if I misused IBF or my PVP trinket when I know a Smoke Bomb is up, and that's just bad play.

Anyway, you're probably right Bone Shield would be too much. I think making Death Strike 10 percent would be adequate.

I am pretty sure that Bone Shield would take DKs from the best target to train, to the absolute worse.  1min Bone Shield and 45sc AMS would deny most kill windows, and would allow IBF to be delayed for really clutch moments.  The fact that bone shield last 5mins and is a buff is what makes it so powerful on a 1min cooldown.

It would put Unholy back to season 8 survival levels which would probably be OP with the damage they can currently do. Would probably be ok for Frost tho.

Edited by Primius, 14 July 2011 - 08:44 PM.


#83 Dagin

Dagin
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Lightninghoof
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 1508
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/0/2/1/0
  • RBG: 2049
  • LocationNew Orleans

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:45 PM

View PostFearful, on 11 July 2011 - 06:19 AM, said:

We die to double melee, but so does everyone else. The melee totem pole works something like this at the moment.

God Tier
Rogues/Ferals

Very Strong
Warriors/DKs

Mediocre
Ret paladins

Shit Tier
Enh Shamans

do one for all the classes now.

Edited by Dagin, 14 July 2011 - 08:46 PM.

Signature removed
"Too Big"- Nerd Vexo
Sorry guys too big
Dale
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=m-gVxKrzb4g
Posted Image

#84 GLopez

GLopez
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 8870
  • Talents: Unholy 0/1/2/2/0/2

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:46 PM

I don't think I'm the best target to train, but that might be because I play with casters. Again, I'm a lot more worried if they get on my affliction warlock, shadow priest, frost mage or restoration druid partner.

But yeah, Bone Shield would probably be too much. They should just make Death Strike 10 percent in Unholy Presence. That would be decent, and it would make it so frost gets more of a buff than unholy.

#85 Zaephyr

Zaephyr
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 3423
  • Talents: Unholy 0/0/2/2/0/2
  • RBG: 2416

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:48 PM

View PostGLopez, on 14 July 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

I don't think I'm the best target to train, but that might be because I play with casters. Again, I'm a lot more worried if they get on my affliction warlock, shadow priest, frost mage or restoration druid partner.

But yeah, Bone Shield would probably be too much. They should just make Death Strike 10 percent in Unholy Presence. That would be decent, and it would make it so frost gets more of a buff than unholy.

:< when they get on my resto druid partner i get shit scared
"Please use an appropriate signature; thanks! www.arenajunkies.com/forum-9/announcement-3-forum-rules-2272014

#86 GLopez

GLopez
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 8870
  • Talents: Unholy 0/1/2/2/0/2

Posted 14 July 2011 - 09:13 PM

Yeah, he can die at any random moment without shadow priest heals or affliction warlock peels.

#87 Fearful

Fearful
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 762
  • Talents: Unholy
  • RBG: 1984

Posted 14 July 2011 - 09:16 PM

Death Strike is an awful solution to any survivability problem. In any situation, you're going to have one of two outcomes. It will be either A. Too weak to keep us alive and most likely not be used or B. So powerful you can just spam it through all damage taken and survive.

I think the problem is more that rogues are too good (damage) and need to be nerfed, rather than DK survivability is too weak. I don't have too much trouble living against warrior feral or some combination of double melee that doesn't involve a rogue. To be fair though, ferals are probably too strong as well.

#88 GLopez

GLopez
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 8870
  • Talents: Unholy 0/1/2/2/0/2

Posted 14 July 2011 - 09:45 PM

The only thing that gives me trouble with living against feral druids is the fact they basically have an instant, unbreakable CC with a fifteen-second cooldown on my healer.

Edited by GLopez, 14 July 2011 - 09:46 PM.


#89 gunsnmoses124

gunsnmoses124
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 137
  • Talents: ./././././.

Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:04 PM

idk there are those random 30k ferocious bites in blood presence, and ferals tell me to not let him keep 5 pts on me, its as easy as that.

#90 Elraen

Elraen
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Crushridge
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 2199
  • Talents: Unholy
  • RBG: 2028

Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:16 PM

View PostGLopez, on 14 July 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

I think I made the strategy pretty clear, but I'll repeat it:

First Smoke Bomb: Trinket + AMS.

Second Smoke Bomb: IBF + AMZ.

I'm not kidding about never dying in Smoke Bombs. I honestly don't understand the complaints about Smoke Bomb from the death knight community. Out of every melee and possibly all classes in general, we have the best tools just because we have two consistent outs for the stuns in the smoke Bomb, which is something no other class can claim.

The only way I could die in a Smoke Bomb is if I misused IBF or my PVP trinket when I know a Smoke Bomb is up, and that's just bad play.

Anyway, you're probably right Bone Shield would be too much. I think making Death Strike 10 percent would be adequate.

Do you never get garroted/CSd while you're in smoke bombs?  It seems like it happens to me every single time I'm on one.  And are you fighting rogues that don't use crip poison, or mages who don't frostbolt you?  I mean-sure, you can trinket the first one, but IBF doesn't do anything but stop them from stunning you in the second one-it just means you're crawling out at 30% (and good luck using runes to get DA up-DISARMED!).

It always seems like I'm disarmed/garroted/counterspelled/snared inside of smoke bombs.

Edited by Elraen, 14 July 2011 - 11:26 PM.

-Aëon, the hunter formerly known as Elraen
-Formerly Sïn


"And rmp is fine it isn't even that amazing"

-Gladiator Mage

#91 Elraen

Elraen
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Crushridge
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 2199
  • Talents: Unholy
  • RBG: 2028

Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:24 PM

View PostPrimius, on 14 July 2011 - 08:44 PM, said:

I am pretty sure that Bone Shield would take DKs from the best target to train, to the absolute worse.  1min Bone Shield and 45sc AMS would deny most kill windows, and would allow IBF to be delayed for really clutch moments.  The fact that bone shield last 5mins and is a buff is what makes it so powerful on a 1min cooldown.

It would put Unholy back to season 8 survival levels which would probably be OP with the damage they can currently do. Would probably be ok for Frost tho.

What about this:

When in unholy or frost presence, bone shield grants physical damage reduction equal to 10x the number of charges left.  4 charges=40%, 3 charges=30%, 2 charges=20%, 1 charge=10%.  A charge can only be removed once every 3 seconds, guaranteeing 12 seconds of damage reduction.  It would sorta be like a reverse combat readiness.  Give it a 2m CD, and replace the bone shield blood talent that basically keeps it like it is now for blood.
-Aëon, the hunter formerly known as Elraen
-Formerly Sïn


"And rmp is fine it isn't even that amazing"

-Gladiator Mage

#92 GLopez

GLopez
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 8870
  • Talents: Unholy 0/1/2/2/0/2

Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:24 PM

View PostElraen, on 14 July 2011 - 11:16 PM, said:

Do you never get garroted/CSd while you're in smoke bombs?  It seems like it happens to me every single time I'm on one.
That's a problem when I only have IBF up, but there are counters for that too. Gnaw, Blood Presence and Death Strike come to mind.

I am not exaggerating or lying when I say I have never died to a Smoke Bomb in 3V3.

Edited by GLopez, 14 July 2011 - 11:25 PM.


#93 Primius

Primius
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 330
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/0/2/0/0/1
  • 2v2: 2039
  • 3v3: 2519
  • 5v5: 1150
  • RBG: 959

Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:40 PM

View PostElraen, on 14 July 2011 - 11:24 PM, said:

What about this:

When in unholy or frost presence, bone shield grants physical damage reduction equal to 10x the number of charges left.  4 charges=40%, 3 charges=30%, 2 charges=20%, 1 charge=10%.  A charge can only be removed once every 3 seconds, guaranteeing 12 seconds of damage reduction.  It would sorta be like a reverse combat readiness.  Give it a 2m CD, and replace the bone shield blood talent that basically keeps it like it is now for blood.

It would be more powerful then the live version but it would average out to greater then 20% damage reduction.

I mean don't get me wrong I am not against the Bone Shield idea. I just don't see the need for it when they can just alter IBF via a talent.

IBF 20% damage reduction on 1min cooldown.  Keep the stun break, and remove the immunity, and give us a +15 or 20% healing taken talent like most of the other melee have.

#94 Elraen

Elraen
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Crushridge
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 2199
  • Talents: Unholy
  • RBG: 2028

Posted 15 July 2011 - 12:00 AM

View PostPrimius, on 14 July 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:

It would be more powerful then the live version but it would average out to greater then 20% damage reduction.

I mean don't get me wrong I am not against the Bone Shield idea. I just don't see the need for it when they can just alter IBF via a talent.

IBF 20% damage reduction on 1min cooldown.  Keep the stun break, and remove the immunity, and give us a +15 or 20% healing taken talent like most of the other melee have.

I've said some of those same things as well, but I really think they'll be hesitant to do anything to IBF OR bone shield until they can figure out how to do so without messing with tanking.  It seems easy, but blizz is very bull-headed about this type of thing.  I'm really skeptical that they'll do anything at all for DKs any time soon.
-Aëon, the hunter formerly known as Elraen
-Formerly Sïn


"And rmp is fine it isn't even that amazing"

-Gladiator Mage

#95 Covlol

Covlol
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 1579
  • Talents: Fury 0/1/1/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1924
  • 3v3: 2468
  • 5v5: 2282
  • RBG: 1787

Posted 17 July 2011 - 05:51 PM

View PostPrimius, on 14 July 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

I get asked all the time by lower end Death Knights that are struggling to break out of the 2k-2200 bracket range right now what to do


just ROFL!
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Lvl 1 Dk Legend Covlol

#96 Getbock

Getbock
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Emerald Dream
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 27
  • Talents: Combat
  • RBG: 1977

Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:08 AM

Don't know if this has been suggested before but, Your Sudden Doom procs can now be used to heal yourself as if lichborne was active. Would boost survival without having to rely on cooldowns.

#97 Itsnel

Itsnel
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 387
  • Talents: Unholy 0/0/2/0/0/0
  • RBG: 2469

Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:37 AM

View PostGetbock, on 18 July 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

Don't know if this has been suggested before but, Your Sudden Doom procs can now be used to heal yourself as if lichborne was active. Would boost survival without having to rely on cooldowns.

yea fucking rng at it's finest

#98 Xelithras

Xelithras
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Vashj
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 300
  • Talents: Frost
  • RBG: 192

Posted 18 July 2011 - 11:54 AM

View PostPrimius, on 14 July 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

What?

You say DKs are fine then list a bunch of shit that needs that be fixed that suggest they are not.  Death Knights are fine if you play with a shaman and a warlock? Well no fucking shit. This is the case for nearly every other class in the game. Outside of running with a Warlock and/or Shaman the class is dog shit.

Frost is for the most part dog shit unless you are running with exceptional players. I know I will get flamed for this but some of you former and current glads need to realize that their is a game outside of 2600+.  I get asked all the time by lower end Death Knights that are struggling to break out of the 2k-2200 bracket range right now what to do, and I have no advice to give them.  

Those bracket ranges are just littered with feral and warrior melee cleaves, and the perception that DKs are tissue paper is growing to the point that people in those ranges don't want to run with them.

The class can't be this weak defensively and still be "fine" and "ok". I mean people prove every season that if you are good enough you can get glad with any spec. People always get glad with Enhancement, and Fire Mages, and Hunters, even though those specs are viewed by the community (the glad community), to be complete shit.


seems like you need to learn to kite. i play with a restodruid (absolutely shit atm) and i'm doing just fine, working around with what we have against melee cleaves. as i said: a slight surv buff against melee would be sweet, but with the current damage we can put out i really dont expect much from blizzard. and i would like something else than just a buff to deathstrike, something like a 10% buff to ibf only against melee damage, still 20% overall. as for the 2k/2200 dks, dont waste much time with em as they are usually totally clueless.

#99 Zacklad

Zacklad
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Auchindoun
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 27
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 27 July 2011 - 01:33 AM

They should make it so when icebound fortitude is active your deathstrike heals for as much as it did prenerf, could be a decent solution maybe

Edited by Zacklad, 27 July 2011 - 01:33 AM.


#100 Tankz

Tankz
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 5229
  • Talents: Arms
  • Locationin ur bed

Posted 27 July 2011 - 01:40 AM

View PostZacklad, on 27 July 2011 - 01:33 AM, said:

They should make it so when icebound fortitude is active your deathstrike heals for as much as it did prenerf, could be a decent solution maybe

I doubt that'll help, as it seems that every DK abuses IBF offensivly anyways when they play thier zerg setups.

i can see it help if they don't play a "hurpi durpi ze healer down" setup, but outside that, it won't really help with thier survival.
wat is dis game




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<