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Current state of dks


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#41 Gurren

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:04 AM

A healing received talent would be interesting.  But it would have to not interact with death strike or death pact imo.  Or just have those lowered so its the same amount post talent.  Maybe the talent could allow death strike to get up to 10-12% in unholy\frost presence.

#42 Primius

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 04:56 AM

View PostGurren, on 12 July 2011 - 04:04 AM, said:

A healing received talent would be interesting.  But it would have to not interact with death strike or death pact imo.  Or just have those lowered so its the same amount post talent.  Maybe the talent could allow death strike to get up to 10-12% in unholy\frost presence.

It really wouldn't be that big of a deal. A 20% healing bonus would increase Death Strike by 20% of the 7% heal which isn't that much.

If you are healing for 8000 with death strike that would only boost it to 9600. Still barely worth the button press. However 20% healing received would greatly boost Lichborne, and heals coming from our healing partner making us some what of a less viable train target. Toss in Bone Shield and we are in good shape.

#43 Gurren

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:53 AM

Im assuming the removal of the death strike glyph's 15% minimum heal was done by the order of rational thought and not a knee jerk idiotic nerf.  So in the effort to preserve as much of the classes neutered survival methods as possible, I would suggest the death strike heal stay at 7% or be moved up slightly.
Lest the wow community begin frothing at the mouth again.

Edited by Gurren, 12 July 2011 - 07:54 AM.


#44 gunsnmoses124

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:46 AM

i still use it sometimes in hopes of getting some health back to prevent dying in blood presence, sadly i dont see any.

#45 Tw1zle

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:18 AM

I dont wana sound like a "noob" but i find that there is never a reason to go in blood presence when being "trained"

I find its better to stay in unholy in most situations just because you can do so much more with the extra global (for instance u can coi 2 targets and use 2 unholy runes in 4 seconds and ur away, add in a couple of jumps and putting coi back on ur good to go

I find myself going in blood presence vs mage teams where u cant deathstrike at will and you cant los at will, but were dk's and we faceroll spell casters so this doesnt happen much hehe

#46 xDD

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:30 AM

It's going to take alot of DKs along time to adapt to not be able to spam DS when getting into completely retarded positions.
http://www.warcraftm...p?t=3&l=xleylax

View PostJacktrapp3r, on 12 July 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.

#47 GLopez

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:40 AM

View PostTw1zle, on 12 July 2011 - 10:18 AM, said:

I dont wana sound like a "noob" but i find that there is never a reason to go in blood presence when being "trained"
I really disagree with this. It's hard to explain how I presence dance because it's something that isn't black and white and I do when it just feels right, but there are matches where I can change presences a lot, especially against melee cleaves and rogue teams.

Edited by GLopez, 12 July 2011 - 10:41 AM.


#48 Tw1zle

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 11:29 AM

dont u find the gcd way better than 8% less damage, especially when u take 0 dmg when kiting

its not like s8 where u can presence dance with no cost because 8% dmg aint alot compared to back then

melee cleave teams without rogues and dk's are just so easy to kite

#49 Primius

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:05 PM

View PostTw1zle, on 12 July 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

dont u find the gcd way better than 8% less damage, especially when u take 0 dmg when kiting

its not like s8 where u can presence dance with no cost because 8% dmg aint alot compared to back then

melee cleave teams without rogues and dk's are just so easy to kite


I don't know how anyone can enjoy playing a Death Knight right now unless they are a masochist. The class is just complete shit IMO.  I tried playing yesterday, and there are so many melee cleaves on shadowburn, and rogue teams that it's just not fun to play with how grossly those comps counter DK teams.

Prime example as of yesterday on Shadowburn looking only at melee in the top 100 teams.

Warriors 34
Rogues 24
Feral Druids 21
Death Knights 16
Retribution 7

I see that as being a major issue, and it's only going to get worse as the season goes on, as long as our survival is complete shit. I have almost 4200 resilience, and it feels like I am wearing tissue paper.

#50 Gressik

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:57 PM

I agree something should be done defensively.  Even when I'm in blood presence and kiting, I feel like I'm holding on for dear life the entire time, just hoping my partner scores a kill.

#51 Darrgen

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:57 PM

I still play frost and im currently at 2800 on rampage as frost. The thing that makes DKs good still is quite frankly the holy paladin buffs. It's a completely different game now with paladin buffs when they can top you off in 1 heal.

I was one of the dks that thought we were in trouble when i looked at patch notes but i didn't take into account just how strong the heal crit and paladin buffs in general were. Simply put i had an easy time getting to 2800 in 1 day and i could almost not feel the nerfs. Biggest thing was I had to use hungering whenever the opportunity presented itself and it would still get stopped a lot of times.

#52 skeetzxo

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 02:19 PM

Is it true mages ice lance is bugged so that it ignores resilience? I have 4.1k resil and I sac'd my pet healing me for 32k and then I got ice lance crit from the mage with FoF up for 28k... Fair?
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#53 Elraen

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:23 PM

View PostPrimius, on 12 July 2011 - 12:05 PM, said:

I don't know how anyone can enjoy playing a Death Knight right now unless they are a masochist. The class is just complete shit IMO.  I tried playing yesterday, and there are so many melee cleaves on shadowburn, and rogue teams that it's just not fun to play with how grossly those comps counter DK teams.

Prime example as of yesterday on Shadowburn looking only at melee in the top 100 teams.

Warriors 34
Rogues 24
Feral Druids 21
Death Knights 16
Retribution 7

I see that as being a major issue, and it's only going to get worse as the season goes on, as long as our survival is complete shit. I have almost 4200 resilience, and it feels like I am wearing tissue paper.

I played some holy pally shadowcleave last night.  We did fine against most caster comps, but when we faced anything with a feral, warrior, rogue, and to a lesser extent frost mages, I just got my butt handed to me over and over-I was dying through sac, IBF, my paladin having wings up.  

Those classes' damage is just absurd right now, especially with how much control they already have.  

Given, this is only the 2nd night I've done arena as unholy in a looooong time (I played frost even before it got uber buffed in S9), there's just no reason we should be this squishy.  IBF should be 50% baseline AND we need bone shield back.  That would probably mean AMS would need a nerf, which is fine.
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#54 Jacktrapp3r

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:15 PM

View PostxDD, on 12 July 2011 - 10:30 AM, said:

It's going to take alot of DKs along time to adapt to not be able to spam DS when getting into completely retarded positions.

Being played both warrior and dk, warrior can totally survive any dps burst where dk would have died in 6seconds, warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.

#55 Scarlettears

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:22 PM

The reason why dks are the least seen melee class now is becuase unholy has the highest skill cap in the game among every class and spec.

Edited by Scarlettears, 12 July 2011 - 07:22 PM.


#56 Gurren

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:37 PM

Realizing that a melee class has to kite more then a hunter isn't something everyone's going to pick up on right away.
Or enjoy.

Also In blood presence you have to count the extra damage reduction you get from armor.  Against physical teams its a bit better then simply 8%.

#57 intricacy

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:37 PM

just make gargoyle assist like they did with shadowfiend

#58 xDD

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:14 AM

View PostJacktrapp3r, on 12 July 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.

And what defensive CDs are they.
http://www.warcraftm...p?t=3&l=xleylax

View PostJacktrapp3r, on 12 July 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.

#59 Gurren

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:18 AM

View PostxDD, on 13 July 2011 - 02:14 AM, said:

And what defensive CDs are they.
A pissing contest is definitely better then trying to bring up counter points.

#60 xDD

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:19 AM

View PostGurren, on 13 July 2011 - 02:18 AM, said:

A pissing contest is definitely better then trying to bring up counter points.

I'm just tryin to figure out what defensive CDs I have which are the best in the entire game.
http://www.warcraftm...p?t=3&l=xleylax

View PostJacktrapp3r, on 12 July 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.




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