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Ferals vs other melee - enlightened approach


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#1 Handsum

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:25 AM

Lets do a side by side comparison of ferals versus other melee classes. I think we all know the main problem with them at the moment is the ridiculously low down time between instant cyclone. There's no other melee class that has a CC like this on such a short cool down. It's basically like caster CC in a ridiculously mobile, high damage melee class. In fact, if you compare all the other melee classes forms of CC, nothing even remotely compares to this. Repent, warrior fear, blind not only all have much more substantial cool downs, but they also have atleast one or two hard counters. Currently, theres nothing that counters an instant cyclone. Sac doesn't break it and you can't even cleanse it. The only thing that might be able to stop it is a lucky guess on a grounding totem, but even then, with such a short cooldown on getting another cyclone proc, it's hardly plausible.

Never before has there been the ability to run a melee, caster, healer comp where the melee has just as much CC to offer ( outside of snares ) than the caster they are playing with, and the consistancy of melee damage, kicking, etc. This isn't me just crying about things being 'unbalanced'. To take a quote from 'the great lopez' ( lol ), I'd much rather spend time brainstorming the best way to fix imbalances rather than just gathering around, agreeing that a class is really imbalanced, without any constructive solutions.


My best solution to the 'feral druid cyclone problem', we'll call it, is to just increase the timer for which it can be used. Maybe 30-45 seconds for instant ? I mean atleast when they're hardcasting it, they have to spend more time going out of their way to use the powerful ability, and you have atleast a 'chance' to interrupt it. As it stands now, it's pretty ridiculous, and with their passive 30% increase movement speed at all times, and the substantial range on it for a melee CC, it's pretty much as conveniant as it gets.

Blizzard has been pretty balanced in the past as far as not letting druids be too imbalanced by either making them suffer in damage compared to other classes, or somthing, but as it stands now, they're doing every bit as much damage, if not more , than other melee classes.. As it stands, with their 2 root 'get outs', the super short reuse on their instant cyclone, and their massive pressure with damage, including dots that continue ticking substantially hard while they're moving over a few feet to get that 'all too often' instant cyclone off on a healer, or anybody else on the team for that matter.. they're absurd.



Added comments, flames, ferals in denial /rant on.

Edited by Handsum, 11 July 2011 - 12:26 AM.

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#2 xDD

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:28 AM

They could just make Feral Cyclone dispellable, but that won't really be a real fix since they'll always use it on a dispeller than.

But yes you're right, Feral CC pretty much since instant cyclone came in has been absurd.

Could just change it somehow to make the instant cast ability only effect certain abilities, such as Roots/Heals.
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#3 JayS

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:36 AM

just dispel the proc?
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#4 Kelarm

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:40 AM

IMO if they were going to change something about ferals, it shouldn't be their cyclones. Sure, it's really annoying to deal with in a game and cyclone is an extremely powerful spell, but the use of the clones I think adds a lot to the skill cap. At least, I can easily tell the difference between good ferals and decent ferals just by how they use their clones. I wish melee could move more and more away from the role of "tunnel damage and stick to target as much as possible" as the only thing they can do. The strength of a class comes from the sum of everything it can do, and ferals have had instant clone since wotlk and definitely have not always been overpowered.

Edited by Kelarm, 11 July 2011 - 12:41 AM.

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#5 Magneta

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:41 AM

A couple weeks ago I would have agreed with the OP. However, I just started playing with a feral on my hpally alt, so now this sounds like a L2P issue.

But seriously, yeah, instant cyclone is complete bullshit and should have a pretty hefty cd put on it like 45 secs.
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#6 pointbreak

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:42 AM

learn to dispel the proc, train him so he doesnt get instants, or give us back our core fucking mechanic and then insta clones can be taken away or put on a longish CD
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#7 Mavrei

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:44 AM

quadruple feral damage, make them totally immobile, and give cyclone a 6 second cast time

that way, they queue cyclone, if someone comes to interrupt it, they can juke and one shot you

otherwise your team eats clones nonstop
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#8 Ctuhlu

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:45 AM

Using Predatory Swiftness on a Cyclone should give the Feral a debuff that makes Predatory Swiftness unable to be used for 20 seconds.
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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


#9 Nermó

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:49 AM

Dispel it? what the fuck
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#10 Anatomyz

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:50 AM

just dispel the proc?

This is alot easier said than done, good ferals dont sit there and take 5 seconds to realize they just got a proc, it's used instantly on somebody. Not to mention (from a healer perspective) having the GCD open at that very moment to get this dispel off before the feral gets the cast.
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#11 rob-hype

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:50 AM

IMO if they were going to change something about ferals, it shouldn't be their cyclones. Sure, it's really annoying to deal with in a game and cyclone is an extremely powerful spell, but the use of the clones I think adds a lot to the skill cap. At least, I can easily tell the difference between good ferals and decent ferals just by how they use their clones. I wish melee could move more and more away from the role of "tunnel damage and stick to target as much as possible" as the only thing they can do. The strength of a class comes from the sum of everything it can do, and ferals have had instant clone since wotlk and definitely have not always been overpowered.


+rep

/Agree

Pretty hard to complain about instant clone after its been in game so long. It seems people make the shit hit the fan whenever feral gets OP. Whereas Fdk last season wasn't as big a issue. After more resilience is achieved thru gear etc the damage scaling evens out... also it was a 3%-6% buff that was improved by Unheeded Warning Trinket. Your post read like a Zilea rage post. If you would like im sure Zilea can give you a nice little chat on his whole Cyclone forum posts hes done in the past few years.
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#12 Calx

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:52 AM

learn to dispel the proc, train him so he doesnt get instants, or give us back our core fucking mechanic and then insta clones can be taken away or put on a longish CD


even if you know to dispel the proc you're a fucking downy if you get your proc dispelled constantly as a feral

pretending like that's an actual solution that will solve this problem just shows what an ignorant idiot you are
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#13 xDD

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:53 AM

IMO if they were going to change something about ferals, it shouldn't be their cyclones. Sure, it's really annoying to deal with in a game and cyclone is an extremely powerful spell, but the use of the clones I think adds a lot to the skill cap. At least, I can easily tell the difference between good ferals and decent ferals just by how they use their clones. I wish melee could move more and more away from the role of "tunnel damage and stick to target as much as possible" as the only thing they can do. The strength of a class comes from the sum of everything it can do, and ferals have had instant clone since wotlk and definitely have not always been overpowered.


Except that Blizzard have already moved other melee classes away from that.

Warriors not have a 25 second DR and only got Charge, we're pretty much forced to tunnel now, I don't really see why Blizzard would suddenly decide to change that just for Ferals.
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warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.


#14 Tepins

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:56 AM

god forbid druids have a viable spec please nerf this immediately it has become far too overpowered even though its been in the game for many seasons and there has been no issue PLEASE BLIZZARD LISTEN TO LORD HANDSUM OF ILLIDAN HE KNOWS WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT
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#15 xDD

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:57 AM

god forbid druids have a viable spec


Yeah...no
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warrior defensive cds are strongest in entire game.


#16 Anatomyz

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:02 AM

god forbid druids have a viable spec


viable =/= overpowered
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#17 Tosan

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:02 AM

IMO if they were going to change something about ferals, it shouldn't be their cyclones. Sure, it's really annoying to deal with in a game and cyclone is an extremely powerful spell, but the use of the clones I think adds a lot to the skill cap. At least, I can easily tell the difference between good ferals and decent ferals just by how they use their clones. I wish melee could move more and more away from the role of "tunnel damage and stick to target as much as possible" as the only thing they can do. The strength of a class comes from the sum of everything it can do, and ferals have had instant clone since wotlk and definitely have not always been overpowered.


I somewhat agree, although maybe cyclone for ferals should be 5 seconds even so.

Thing I liked most about TBC was melee didn't just tunnel insane damage, I mean they could tunnel tons of damage but not nearly to the extent they are encouraged to do now.

I Loved playing RRD and RWD in tbc, the games were much longer than the average wotlk/cata cleave games and we'd usually split DPS for the sake of locking down 2 separate targets, then swap accordingly when the moment was right for a kill.

It was really satisfying that it usually required really good CC chaining like cyclone->sap ->ShS kick -> focus intercept -> Cyclone/feral charge/bash/whatever to land kills, rather than just tunnel vision and throw out a few instant CC's at range.

I really wish the game would go back to that, but with the way casters are now it honestly can't because Melee have to be able to zerg or they automatically lose due to the momentum changing ability that wizard cleaves have with CC.
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#18 Kelarm

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:04 AM

Except that Blizzard have already moved other melee classes away from that.

Warriors not have a 25 second DR and only got Charge, we're pretty much forced to tunnel now, I don't really see why Blizzard would suddenly decide to change that just for Ferals.


Well maybe they could take the first step in the right direction with ferals B)
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#19 Tepins

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:06 AM

with spriests, rogues, resto shams, and dks still in their current state all of you are whining about ferals. i dont get it.
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#20

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:13 AM

Yeah...no


i lol'd hard when i read this +rep
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