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BM vs MM in Feral+Hunter+Heal


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#21 Devion87

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:15 AM

omg did you really say bm is not good because the pet bugs in arena? sorry but if you dont know how to unbug your pet you shouldt be posting...

qtpoo you didnt started the whole bm stuff you were just the one talking the loudest

and reedwise has again some good points but like always hes the only one

#22 sudar

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:22 AM

bm is good you just have to be good to play it

#23 Esiwdeer

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:02 AM

In-depth MM vs BM:

Intimidation DRs very, very many stuns shared with common Hunter partners. 3% damage and 25% AP is great, but the 15% Auto Shot damage you lose isn't negligible, and neither is the 10% from TSA or 30% crit damage through Piercing Shots - I call passive damage vs. passive damage a wash between the specs without knowing the exact math in a vacuum.

The crux of my argument, though, is you could most easily compare this spec to Unholy Death Knights. If you've ever just tried to kill a Gladiator quality healer as an Unholy Death Knight, you have to land interrupts. This falls directly into juking/not juking metagames, which Hunter doesn't fit into. As Beast Mastery you just don't have the staying power. Even if you were rolling with a Gorilla for pummel, the amount of micromanagement you'd have to be capable of would be.. much better placed as a Marks Hunter.

BM's burst potential wanes in arena for a few reasons: even assuming you get full TBW's(which you won't), Kill Command is mitigated by armor, Arcane Shot lacks damage and is your only other attack(which, best case, leaves you capped on globals),  the whole Fervor/Focus Fire mechanic is pretty lame in comparison to a 3 minute Rapid Fire, clearable by Readiness. I really like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera but not more than 16 second Disengage.

Silencing Shot is a great tool. Multi-shot daze is a great tool. Rapid Recuperation is a great tool. But, most importantly, Readiness. After you start getting more experienced you'll see kill opportunities in cycles, mitigated by defensive/offensive cooldowns that the opposing team uses(you'll mostly notice whether or not your Chimera Shot crits during these windows.) It is impossible to predict Readiness, or what exactly the Hunter could use it for. We have such a myriad of abilities that a clever Readiness can almost always turn the tide of a game - at least momentarily. You can't go without it, you simply cannot. This game isn't going to revert to WotLK where Mages will die in 3 globals and you aren't going to be immune to crowd control.

You need sustainable damage that isn't mitigated by armor, reliable, lasting crowd control and most importantly the ability to build momentum against teams who will, mostly, have more utility than any team with a Hunter on it. BM just doesn't have the lasting power, the synergy or the utility.

Edited by threatslol, 14 July 2011 - 08:04 AM.


#24 simplemind

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:25 AM

end of the day, it comes down to what you are facing mostly, but BM with a lock in any situation.
counter wizzzzards...with wizzzzzzards B)

Edited by simplemind, 14 July 2011 - 10:25 AM.


#25 Jokerplex

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 04:08 PM

View PostDevion87, on 14 July 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

omg did you really say bm is not good because the pet bugs in arena? sorry but if you dont know how to unbug your pet you shouldt be posting...

qtpoo you didnt started the whole bm stuff you were just the one talking the loudest

and reedwise has again some good points but like always hes the only one
having to unbug my pet is a waste of time, some times costing the kill.

at the end of the day, good players will stop all your damage as BM. And losing silencing shot/Double deter isnt worth it

Edited by Jokerplex, 14 July 2011 - 04:09 PM.


#26 Bowya-

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:22 PM

View PostJokerplex, on 14 July 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

having to unbug my pet is a waste of time, some times costing the kill.

at the end of the day, good players will stop all your damage as BM. And losing silencing shot/Double deter isnt worth it

A good player will LOS your cooldowns as MM or just LOS as soon as his on 50% with no CDs up. This argument that BM does less damage than marks vs good players is wrong. All good players can avoid hunter damage. It is harder to avoid BM damage than it is to avoid marks damage my previous example of a mage losing stands here. If you get some 1 to 40k HP and then they LOS you will not kill them as marks, if you disengage into a LOS you most often get switched to and raped as a hunter, nothing is much more frustrating than being LOSed like this. Now if your BM KC will hit for 15k ish with no CDs. You can stun them to stop them running away even if it is DRed.

Also people forget that arcane shot as BM does not hit the same as what it does for marks. BM arcane shot his 3x as much, ive critted 18-20 with trinket up. As marks you will get about 10k. Also your have a lot more focus all the time as BM.

I do not like playing BM i like marks a hell of a lot pretty much because of readiness but with marks I have no focus regen, I do no damage unless i pop all my cooldowns. As BM ive pretty much always got focus. I will play around with marks again this week and BM to see if I can do more pressure as marks but i seriously doubt it.

#27 Esiwdeer

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 09:38 PM

I tried to help, bro.

#28 Bowya-

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 10:38 AM

View Postthreatslol, on 14 July 2011 - 09:38 PM, said:

I tried to help, bro.

Im not saying your wrong, it is just my opinion.

#29 sudar

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 11:59 AM

i like BM i fist mages all day they hate me

#30 Shells

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 04:32 PM

i like survival!

o wait where did my tnt stun go...

BM=fun change
MM=get trained all day do no dmg cuz all i see is r/m/p or f/m/p sumtimes ele/m/p

#31 robztr

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 06:13 PM

trap into monkeystun into silence shot into fear into cyclone into another trap from rediness cy@ with dbl freedom on the feral. MM ftw

On a more serious note,Just test both and see which you and your team enjoy the most because both speccs works

Edited by robztr, 15 July 2011 - 06:18 PM.


#32 Esiwdeer

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:11 PM

View PostShells, on 15 July 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

i like survival!

o wait where did my tnt stun go...

BM=fun change
MM=get trained all day do no dmg cuz all i see is r/m/p or f/m/p sumtimes ele/m/p
is 2418 really rank 1 on shadowburn

#33 kravnos

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 03:30 PM

View Postrobztr, on 15 July 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:

trap into monkeystun into silence shot into fear into cyclone into another trap from rediness cy@ with dbl freedom on the feral. MM ftw

On a more serious note,Just test both and see which you and your team enjoy the most because both speccs works

wat

monkey is dr'd from when you scatter to trap... its not a stun

#34 Redboww

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:56 PM

View PostQtpoo, on 18 July 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

wat

monkey is dr'd from when you scatter to trap... its not a stun

pretty sure it isnt

#35 Cristobal_744500

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:33 PM

Bad Manner doesn't DR anything a Hunter has. Though it does DR a HoJ. Go figure huh
sorry n shit

#36 Sparkys

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:13 PM

seems the only way to get a trap off nowadays is to use a monkey, when you scatter the entire team runs towards the healer.

#37 robztr

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:21 PM

Monkey stun dr's with throwdown and HoJ not with scatter shot.

#38 Garxz

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 10:49 PM

This retard on my realm plays BM atleast, but he is a real downer.
http://eu.battle.net...dOOm is so Swe/

Ktpearie said:

For the record, you all have my utmost sympathy.  All of you who are still playing hunter are fucking superhuman.

#39 Granter

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 11:53 PM

Cant see why even a mage would cry about BM damage, it's 40% lower than MM and without the silence shot.

Already counting that MM actually does 50-60% less than it should be doing

Edited by Granter, 18 July 2011 - 11:54 PM.


#40 kinexa

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 02:42 AM

BM  B)




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